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Old 03-21-07, 06:26 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joejack951
Not sure where your link was supposed to point to but I learned a new word looking at the Wikipedia article. I'd say I'm about as good at grokking Unix man pages as you are at 3D modelling (unless you have another mechanical engineering job).
So much for that theory!

(I linked to the meaning of grok in case you or someone did not know what it means).
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Old 03-21-07, 06:39 PM   #52
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I just added this section to the OP:

Zealous VC advocate is someone who advocates Vehicular Cycling with eagerness and ardent interest. Given the absence of actual advocates of Strict VC, the term zealous VC advocate rarely if ever is used to refer to an actual advocate of Strict VC, though certain VC contrarians have been known to try to use this term to imply that certain VC advocates are advocates of Strict VC.
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Old 03-21-07, 06:40 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Helmet Head
So much for that theory!

(I linked to the meaning of grok in case you or someone did not know what it means).
Try your link. It's just: http://grokking

I think I do some form of grokking in my job whether it's weeding through the history of someone else's part file or trying to trick I-deas (our CAD program) into completing a fillet/draft/surface that it refuses to create using normal methods or deciphering emails from our Chinese manufacturing facility. Or am I (ironically) misinterpretting the meaning of that word?
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Old 03-21-07, 06:46 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joejack951
Try your link. It's just: http://grokking
Strange! Fixed now. http://m-w.com/dictionary/grokking

Quote:
I think I do some form of grokking in my job whether it's weeding through the history of someone else's part file or trying to trick I-deas (our CAD program) into completing a fillet/draft/surface that it refuses to create using normal methods or deciphering emails from our Chinese manufacturing facility. Or am I (ironically) misinterpretting the meaning of that word?
Ask Heinlein.
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Old 03-21-07, 07:00 PM   #55
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Another definition added to the OP:

VC Advocacy is the advocacy of the right of cyclists to use surface street roadways (where drivers of slow moving vehicles are not prohibited) in accordance with the vehicular rules of the road, and advocacy for the general acceptance of this right within society. This can include opposing the creation of facilities that are based on the notion that cyclists do not have this right. Sometimes the term VC is used to mean VC Advocacy.
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Old 03-21-07, 07:25 PM   #56
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Yet another one!

fsdt stands for "faster same direction traffic", a term used in traffic laws that define rules specific to drivers of slow moving vehicles, including some that are specific to cyclists. For example, laws restricting drivers of slow moving vehicles to keep right often only apply in the presence of fsdt.
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Old 03-21-07, 07:55 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Helmet Head
Ask Heinlein.
Sadly, Bob hasn't been with us for some time, now.

We could ask Lazarus, though. I'm sure he's around somewhere and somewhen.
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Old 03-21-07, 07:58 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Helmet Head
fsdt stands for "faster same direction traffic"
Better to capitalize abbreviations. "FSDT."

The Brits often don't do it, especially with acronyms ("Nasa") and it always confuses me.
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Old 03-21-07, 08:06 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kalliergo
Better to capitalize abbreviations. "FSDT."

The Brits often don't do it, especially with acronyms ("Nasa") and it always confuses me.
But if the "unacronymed" phrase is not normally capitalized, why capitalize the acronym?
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Old 03-21-07, 08:22 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Helmet Head
Another definition added to the OP:

VC Advocacy is the advocacy of the right of cyclists to use surface street roadways (where drivers of slow moving vehicles are not prohibited) in accordance with the vehicular rules of the road, and advocacy for the general acceptance of this right within society. This can include opposing the creation of facilities that are based on the notion that cyclists do not have this right. Sometimes the term VC is used to mean VC Advocacy.
Are you a barber? You certainly do like to split hairs.

BTW, how does your superfluous definition above differ from "Bike Advocacy", or "Cycling Advocacy"?

Your definition might be clearer if it included, "Self-identified VC Advocates are ardently and inflexibly opposed to bike lanes, or any other cyclist-specific roadway accommodations, and think that those who support such accommodations are: a) unskilled as cyclists, and/or b) simple-minded, and/or c) spawned from Satan".
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Old 03-21-07, 08:24 PM   #61
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What if the cycling facilities are created based on the notion that cyclists deserve decent access to the road? Are they ok then?

(Hint: Of course not.)
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Old 03-21-07, 08:51 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Helmet Head
But if the "unacronymed" phrase is not normally capitalized, why capitalize the acronym?
To avoid confusion with typos, similar words with other meanings, etc. "ROW," "AIDS," etc. And just because it makes abbreviations and acronyms easier to recognize. My style guides are in the other room, but I'm pretty sure that most of them would consider it an English convention.
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Old 03-21-07, 08:56 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SSP
Your definition might be clearer if it included, "Self-identified VC Advocates are ardently and inflexibly opposed to bike lanes, or any other cyclist-specific roadway accommodations
No, it wouldn't, because that statement is not at all accurate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SSP
and think that those who support such accommodations are: a) unskilled as cyclists, and/or b) simple-minded, and/or c) spawned from Satan".
Again, no. Some of us just think that those who support certain "accommodations" are misinformed, or in error.
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Old 03-21-07, 10:17 PM   #64
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Another update (refined FSDT, added Road Margin):

The Road Margin is roadway space near the edge of the roadway, often demarcated by a shoulder, bike lane, or fog line stripe, normally not used by through vehicular traffic. Road Margin space is often used by cyclists to allow faster traffic to pass.

FSDT
stands for "Faster Same Direction Traffic", a term used in traffic laws that define rules specific to drivers of slow moving vehicles, including some that are specific to cyclists. For example, laws restricting drivers of slow moving vehicles to keep right often only apply in the presence of FSDT. The presence or absence of FSDT (or approaching FSDT) is an important lane positioning factor for many vehicular cyclists. In particular, in the absence of FSDT there is no reason to ride in the road margin.
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Old 03-21-07, 10:23 PM   #65
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mr. head, this is ever more apparant these are "helmet head's definintions of his cycling technique, and not representative of vehicular cycling.

vehicular cyclists can choose to ride in bike lanes, dude.

This whole thread is hilarious..

"strict" VC, but no one rides like this,

Do you mean ADAPTIVE CYCLING? if you don't have to ride VC all the time?
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Old 03-21-07, 10:26 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bekologist
vehicular cyclists can choose to ride in bike lanes, dude.
Do you think anything in the definitions says or implies that vehicular cyclists cannot choose to ride in bike lanes?
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Old 03-21-07, 10:36 PM   #67
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well, better add that to the definitions then:

"Vehicular cyclists can ride in bike lanes."


your slant is rick diculous.
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Old 03-21-07, 10:53 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Helmet Head

FSDT
stands for "Faster Same Direction Traffic", a term used in traffic laws ...
I did find that phrase in the JOHNSON COUNTY CODE OF REGULATIONS FOR THE PARK AND RECREATION ... but no were else. Which Rules of the Road use that term?
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Old 03-21-07, 10:59 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bekologist
well, better add that to the definitions then:

"Vehicular cyclists can ride in bike lanes."


your slant is rick diculous.
Under BVC it said:
* Use speed positioning between intersections, including riding in the margins.

Under AVC it said:

* Recognizing when and where bike lanes are okay to use, and when they should be avoided.

If just updated them to say:

Under BVC
* Use speed positioning between intersections, including riding in the road margins, especially when FSDT is present or approaching and it is safe and reasonable to do so (yes, this means vehicular cyclists do sometimes ride in bike lanes).

Under AVC:
* Recognizing when and where bike lanes are okay to use, and when they should be avoided (learning to ignore the bike lane stripe when deciding where to ride).


Better?
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Old 03-21-07, 11:03 PM   #70
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who cares? this is all

"HELMET HEAD DEFINES HELMET HEAD'S ADAPTIVE CYCLING TECHNIQUES"
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Old 03-21-07, 11:05 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Rosar
I did find that phrase in the JOHNSON COUNTY CODE OF REGULATIONS FOR THE PARK AND RECREATION ... but no were else. Which Rules of the Road use that term?
Good catch! (leave it to a vehicular cyclist to actually be paying attention)

I'm so used to writing that that I thought that's the wording used in the law. In CA statutes, it says:
"at a speed less than the normal speed of traffic moving in the same direction at such time".

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc21654.htm
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc21202.htm

So "FSDT is present" is shorthand for operating "at a speed less than the normal speed of traffic moving in the same direction at such time"

I'll fix the OP. Thanks!
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Old 03-21-07, 11:06 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bekologist
who cares? this is all

"HELMET HEAD DEFINES HELMET HEAD'S ADAPTIVE CYCLING TECHNIQUES"
Well, that's certainly what it's starting as.

But I'm hoping to get consensus from the vc members of this subforum that it defines their techniques as well.
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Old 03-21-07, 11:09 PM   #73
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it doesn't define my vehicular cycling technique, dude.
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Old 03-21-07, 11:11 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Helmet Head
Good catch! (leave it to a vehicular cyclist to actually be paying attention)

I'm so used to writing that that I thought that's the wording used in the law. In CA statutes, it says:
"at a speed less than the normal speed of traffic moving in the same direction at such time".

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc21654.htm
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc21202.htm

So "FSDT is present" is shorthand for operating "at a speed less than the normal speed of traffic moving in the same direction at such time"

I'll fix the OP. Thanks!
Bruce, how's this:

FSDT stands for "Faster Same Direction Traffic". The concept is used in traffic laws that define rules specific to drivers of slow moving vehicles, including some that are specific to cyclists. For example, laws restricting drivers of slow moving vehicles to keep right often only apply in the presence of FSDT[1]. The presence or absence of FSDT (or approaching-from-behind FSDT) is an important lane positioning factor for many vehicular cyclists. In particular, in the absence of FSDT there is no reason to ride in the road margin.
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Old 03-21-07, 11:14 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bekologist
it doesn't define my vehicular cycling technique, dude.
Well, I think I've incorporated all the suggestions you made earlier in this thread.

Did I miss something? Anything else (I can't read your mind)?
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