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  1. #126
    Senior Member rando's Avatar
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    Toady is good. but I still like "weenus".
    "Think of bicycles as rideable art that can just about save the world". ~Grant Petersen

    Cyclists fare best when they recognize that there are times when acting vehicularly is not the best practice, and are flexible enough to do what is necessary as the situation warrants.--Me

  2. #127
    8speed DinoSORAs Ed Holland's Avatar
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    I have (perhaps unfounded) hopes that this episode might actually be the tail end of the storm for a while.

    Yours hopefully,

    Ed
    Get a bicycle. You will certainly not regret it, if you live.

  3. #128
    Striving for Fredness deputyjones's Avatar
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    Syncophant is one of fav's too, but did anyone else notice that when I was being told not to call names that K then went on to describe me as a Jr. HS bully?

    Sooooo, it's ok to call names as long as we just use descriptions instead of the actual name, or it's ok for you to do it and not me?
    Monsignor: We must always fear evil men. But there is another kind of evil that we must fear the most, and that is the indifference of good men.
    Connor: I do believe the monsignor's finally got the point.
    Murphy: Aye.

    OttawaCountyDSA.com

  4. #129
    JRA
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    Quote Originally Posted by deputyjones
    Sooooo, it's ok to call names as long as we just use descriptions instead of the actual name, or it's ok for you to do it and not me?
    Did ya notice that those who whined about what they saw as "name-calling" in this thread combined their complaints with personal attacks on the thread starter?

    Can you say "hypocrite'?
    Last edited by JRA; 03-14-07 at 05:58 PM.
    "It may even be that motoring is more healthful than not motoring; death rates were certainly higher in the pre-motoring age."- John Forester
    "Laws cannot be properly understood as if written in plain English..."- Forester defending obfuscation.
    "Motorist propaganda, continued for sixty years, is what has put cyclists on sidewalks." - Forester, sociologist in his own mind
    "'There are no rules of the road on MUPs.' -John Forester" - Helmet Head quoting 'The Great One'

  5. #130
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zeytoun
    I think it shows that our motivation here (mine included) is to argue (to defend our heroes, or point out silliness) rather then to promote bicycling. But then again, that is the nature of any forum where the participants tend to already agree on big-picture things like whether or not to bicycle...
    True to a point, until the relentless proselytizing for a specific brand of silliness by a handful of acolytes is recognized as a counterproductive and cancerous boil that is best excised (by the bright light of the truth )for the health of the big picture patient.
    Last edited by I-Like-To-Bike; 03-14-07 at 06:07 PM.

  6. #131
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helmet Head
    Here's what I don't get about you: do you think ILTB has a personal vendetta or not?
    Take a poll, Jack. With your typical HH worded choices. That should decide this real important issue for you, and divert attention from the issue of your own and your buddy's actions and words.

  7. #132
    Banned. Helmet Head's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JRA
    Did ya notice that those who whined about what they saw as "name-calling" in this thread combined their complaints with personal attacks on the thread starter?

    Can you say "hypocrite'?
    Pointing out that ILTB has a personal vendetta with John Forester is a "personal attack"?
    I thought it was simply stating the obvious, like noting John Forester has a personal vendetta with ILTB.


    vendetta

    Main Entry: venĚdetĚta

    1 : blood feud
    2 : an often prolonged series of retaliatory, vengeful, or hostile acts or exchange of such acts



    If anyone thinks that ILTB and JF have not engaged in a prolonged series of exchanging retaliatory, vengeful, or hostile acts on the internet, well, you must not be a longtime member of Chainguard.

  8. #133
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helmet Head
    If anyone thinks that ILTB and JF have not engaged in a prolonged series of exchanging on the internet, well, you must not be a longtime member of Chainguard.
    Last time I will explain the facts to you, Jack. You are half right. Forester responds with retaliatory, vengeful, or hostile acts to any skepticism and criticism of the the glaring errors in his sophomoric tests/analyses and preposterous claims. I gored his sacred cow with especially bitting logically laid out skepticism and documented my criticism of his fraudulent risk analysis and he responds in the only way he knows how.

    It ain't personal, its the facts. Got it? It ain't that hard. Try another smokescreen.

  9. #134
    Banned. Helmet Head's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
    Last time I will explain the facts to you, Jack. You are half right. Forester responds with retaliatory, vengeful, or hostile acts to any skepticism and criticism of the the glaring errors in his sophomoric tests/analyses and preposterous claims. I gored his sacred cow with especially bitting logically laid out skepticism and documented my criticism of his fraudulent risk analysis and he responds in the only way he knows how.

    It ain't personal, its the facts. Got it? It ain't that hard. Try another smokescreen.
    Yes, it would probably be very difficult to find an example of you acting in a hostile retaliatory way towards John Forester. Like your words above would not be an example of that. Nothing hostile there. And starting this thread would not be an example of that. Nothing retaliatory about that. Got it.


  10. #135
    Striving for Fredness deputyjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helmet Head
    Yes, it would probably be very difficult to find an example of you acting in a hostile retaliatory way towards John Forester. Like your words above would not be an example of that. Nothing hostile there. And starting this thread would not be an example of that. Nothing retaliatory about that. Got it.

    Well, at least ILTB has the gonads to do it in an open forum and not hide behind a static HTML page with handpicked quotes to attack out of context.
    Monsignor: We must always fear evil men. But there is another kind of evil that we must fear the most, and that is the indifference of good men.
    Connor: I do believe the monsignor's finally got the point.
    Murphy: Aye.

    OttawaCountyDSA.com

  11. #136
    JRA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helmet Head
    (attempts to rationalize personal attacks-- probably in an attempt to divert attention from the subject of this thread and, perhaps, start a flame war that would get the thread closed )
    Whatever, dude.

    You crack me up.
    "It may even be that motoring is more healthful than not motoring; death rates were certainly higher in the pre-motoring age."- John Forester
    "Laws cannot be properly understood as if written in plain English..."- Forester defending obfuscation.
    "Motorist propaganda, continued for sixty years, is what has put cyclists on sidewalks." - Forester, sociologist in his own mind
    "'There are no rules of the road on MUPs.' -John Forester" - Helmet Head quoting 'The Great One'

  12. #137
    Senior Member randya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deputyjones
    Well, at least ILTB has the gonads to do it in an open forum and not hide behind a static HTML page with handpicked quotes to attack out of context.
    Exactly. If Robert Hurst is willing to 'get down in the pit and mingle with the 'plebes'', so too should John Forrrester be. 'Cause there certainly ain't no peer review on John's personal web pages.
    Last edited by randya; 03-14-07 at 08:20 PM.

  13. #138
    ---- buzzman's Avatar
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    John Forester's major contribution to cycling is exemplified by this thread- much ado about nothing. Unbelievably divisive. I know cycling is about spinning our wheels but some of us are more interested in actually going somewhere when we spin them. He's been bogging down real advocacy with his contrarian opinions for 30 years. Looks like he hasn't lost his ability to drag as many cyclists as he can into his endless cycle of nonsense.

  14. #139
    Dominatrikes sbhikes's Avatar
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    Yes, John Forester denies he was paid to speak. But the ADC web site shows that he only requires payment for his expenses. An all expenses paid visit to Santa Barbara sounds like pretty good payment to me, don't you think? I'll bet he didn't even rent a bike down at the beach.
    ~Diane
    Recumbents: Lightning Thunderbolt, '06 Catrike Pocket. Upright: Trek Mountain Bike.
    8.5 mile commute. I like bike lanes.

  15. #140
    Prefers Cicero cooker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by N_C
    Uh where does it mention BF or it's memebrs?
    Apparently you didn't read it all the way down.

  16. #141
    Senior Member rando's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sbhikes
    Yes, John Forester denies he was paid to speak. But the ADC web site shows that he only requires payment for his expenses. An all expenses paid visit to Santa Barbara sounds like pretty good payment to me, don't you think? I'll bet he didn't even rent a bike down at the beach.
    the guy's a weasel. always has been, always will be.
    "Think of bicycles as rideable art that can just about save the world". ~Grant Petersen

    Cyclists fare best when they recognize that there are times when acting vehicularly is not the best practice, and are flexible enough to do what is necessary as the situation warrants.--Me

  17. #142
    Loved by m0ds Pete_Fagerlin1's Avatar
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    There are some interesting parallels between Forester and Vandeman.

    http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande/

  18. #143
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by randya
    Exactly. If Robert Hurst is willing to 'get down in the pit and mingle with the plebes', so to should John Forrrester be. 'Cause there certainly ain't no peer review on John's personal web pages.
    Nor is there any review on the ChainGuard list where JF's latest post tipped me off to his diatribe against our BF friends. That Vehicular Cycling site requires that posters stick to the party line. The moderator will brook no thread or discussion that casts doubt on the infallibility of Vehicular Cycling Doctrine as espoused by the Forester Clan.

  19. #144
    Dominatrikes sbhikes's Avatar
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    From JF's "rebuttal" web page:
    Quote Originally Posted by JF
    One of the principal critics is named Dianne, one of the leaders of the Santa Barbara Bicycling Coalition (maybe not its proper name), who spoke to me after that meeting. Her conversation at that time concerned the habit of truckers parking their trailers in the bike lane, presumably near her house. She was incensed that I did nothing about this (I live about 225 miles away), and even more incensed when I said that, as far as the cyclist is concerned, he just rides around the parked trailer. She said that she could not believe that I thought of myself as a cycling advocate. I believe that Dianne uses the pseudonym sbhikes on bikeforums.net.
    LOL I did not even attend the meeting. I had to hear about it 2nd-hand. I'm also not a leader of the bicycle coaltion. I'm an ordinary member. Whoever that was who confronted John, it was not me, but I'm glad to hear that people confronted him after the meeting on his "cycling advocate" credentials.

    More John Forester facts? At least I got my facts straight about him. There's his smiling face on the American Dream Coalition web site.

    My it sure is quiet in here while the troops retrench their efforts...
    ~Diane
    Recumbents: Lightning Thunderbolt, '06 Catrike Pocket. Upright: Trek Mountain Bike.
    8.5 mile commute. I like bike lanes.

  20. #145
    your nightmare gal chipcom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JRA
    It ain't all that difficult. You don't have to spend much time on Forester's website to see what his bias is. If it's not the way things were done in England over half a century ago, he's opposed to it.

    As a scientist, Forester is a great snake-oil salesman.

    John Forester, the first to recognize the overwhelming importance of the Cyclist Inferiority Phobia, has few scientific peers, especially since Wilhelm Reich, the discover of orgone energy, died in 1957.

    What I find particularly interesting is that Reich had considerably more legitimate scientific credentials than Forester ever even dreamed of having.
    I was speaking from the perspective of mere mortals...I AM ChipcomMan, ya know.
    "Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey

  21. #146
    Senior Member randya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sbhikes
    Yes, John Forester denies he was paid to speak. But the ADC web site shows that he only requires payment for his expenses. An all expenses paid visit to Santa Barbara sounds like pretty good payment to me, don't you think? I'll bet he didn't even rent a bike down at the beach.
    Yes, I think; here's his actual charges, from the ADC Speakers Bureau web site:

    Quote Originally Posted by ADC
    Cost: Travel expenses (from California) plus honorarium based on ability to pay and distance traveled.

  22. #147
    your nightmare gal chipcom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helmet Head
    Here's what I don't get about you: do you think ILTB has a personal vendetta or not?
    Why would you not agree that he does based on whether JF also has a personal vendetta?

    For what it's worth, I think JF has a personal vendetta too, and I would think that regardless of whether ILTB had one. Anyway, they obviously have it in for each other. It's quite childish, really, on both parts.
    No I don't think he has a personal vendetta, I think he has a problem with what JF is selling and just plain doesn't like him based on some history that is none of my business. Just because you don't like someone doesn't mean you have a personal vendetta. I doubt ILTB lies awake at night thinking of ways he can 'get' JF, even if he does, as I do, enjoy blasting holes in this 'theories' and 'facts'. I enjoy blasting your theories too, do you think I have a personal vendetta against you?
    "Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey

  23. #148
    your nightmare gal chipcom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I_Bike
    Sorry - haven't enough people pooped in the gene pool as it is?
    Dude, if I somehow had your children, we'll know that the gene pool has pretty much jumped the shark.
    "Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey

  24. #149
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sbhikes
    From JF's "rebuttal" web page:


    LOL I did not even attend the meeting. I had to hear about it 2nd-hand.
    You must have misunderstood what you heard 2nd-hand . You really were at the meeting personally attacking the honorable gentleman.

    Hey If Forester said it, it must be true. Ain't that right, Kalli, Galen and HH?

  25. #150
    Dominatrikes sbhikes's Avatar
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    I don't think ILTB shows any personal vendetta against anybody. He calls 'em as he sees 'em. Jofn Forester, on the other hand, keeps a long list of enemies, which I believe I have been added to by now.
    ~Diane
    Recumbents: Lightning Thunderbolt, '06 Catrike Pocket. Upright: Trek Mountain Bike.
    8.5 mile commute. I like bike lanes.

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