Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > > >

Vehicular Cycling (VC) No other subject has polarized the A&S members like VC has. Here's a place to share, debate, and educate.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 03-14-07, 05:32 PM   #126
rando
Senior Member
 
rando's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Tempe, AZ
Bikes:
Posts: 2,967
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Toady is good. but I still like "weenus".
__________________
"Think of bicycles as rideable art that can just about save the world". ~Grant Petersen

Cyclists fare best when they recognize that there are times when acting vehicularly is not the best practice, and are flexible enough to do what is necessary as the situation warrants.--Me
rando is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-07, 05:33 PM   #127
Ed Holland
8speed DinoSORAs
 
Ed Holland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Oxford, UK or Mountain View, Ca
Bikes:
Posts: 2,749
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I have (perhaps unfounded) hopes that this episode might actually be the tail end of the storm for a while.

Yours hopefully,

Ed
__________________
Get a bicycle. You will certainly not regret it, if you live.
Ed Holland is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-07, 05:35 PM   #128
deputyjones
Striving for Fredness
 
deputyjones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: West Michigan
Bikes: Old Giant Rincon
Posts: 1,190
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Syncophant is one of fav's too, but did anyone else notice that when I was being told not to call names that K then went on to describe me as a Jr. HS bully?

Sooooo, it's ok to call names as long as we just use descriptions instead of the actual name, or it's ok for you to do it and not me?
deputyjones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-07, 05:51 PM   #129
JRA
Senior Member
 
JRA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: St. Louis
Bikes:
Posts: 945
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by deputyjones
Sooooo, it's ok to call names as long as we just use descriptions instead of the actual name, or it's ok for you to do it and not me?
Did ya notice that those who whined about what they saw as "name-calling" in this thread combined their complaints with personal attacks on the thread starter?

Can you say "hypocrite'?

Last edited by JRA; 03-14-07 at 05:58 PM.
JRA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-07, 05:57 PM   #130
I-Like-To-Bike
Been Around Awhile
Thread Starter
 
I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi
Posts: 23,848
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeytoun
I think it shows that our motivation here (mine included) is to argue (to defend our heroes, or point out silliness) rather then to promote bicycling. But then again, that is the nature of any forum where the participants tend to already agree on big-picture things like whether or not to bicycle...
True to a point, until the relentless proselytizing for a specific brand of silliness by a handful of acolytes is recognized as a counterproductive and cancerous boil that is best excised (by the bright light of the truth )for the health of the big picture patient.

Last edited by I-Like-To-Bike; 03-14-07 at 06:07 PM.
I-Like-To-Bike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-07, 06:03 PM   #131
I-Like-To-Bike
Been Around Awhile
Thread Starter
 
I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi
Posts: 23,848
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Helmet Head
Here's what I don't get about you: do you think ILTB has a personal vendetta or not?
Take a poll, Jack. With your typical HH worded choices. That should decide this real important issue for you, and divert attention from the issue of your own and your buddy's actions and words.
I-Like-To-Bike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-07, 06:22 PM   #132
Helmet Head
Banned.
 
Helmet Head's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: San Diego
Bikes:
Posts: 13,075
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRA
Did ya notice that those who whined about what they saw as "name-calling" in this thread combined their complaints with personal attacks on the thread starter?

Can you say "hypocrite'?
Pointing out that ILTB has a personal vendetta with John Forester is a "personal attack"?
I thought it was simply stating the obvious, like noting John Forester has a personal vendetta with ILTB.


vendetta

Main Entry: venĚdetĚta

1 : blood feud
2 : an often prolonged series of retaliatory, vengeful, or hostile acts or exchange of such acts



If anyone thinks that ILTB and JF have not engaged in a prolonged series of exchanging retaliatory, vengeful, or hostile acts on the internet, well, you must not be a longtime member of Chainguard.
Helmet Head is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-07, 06:36 PM   #133
I-Like-To-Bike
Been Around Awhile
Thread Starter
 
I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi
Posts: 23,848
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Helmet Head
If anyone thinks that ILTB and JF have not engaged in a prolonged series of exchanging on the internet, well, you must not be a longtime member of Chainguard.
Last time I will explain the facts to you, Jack. You are half right. Forester responds with retaliatory, vengeful, or hostile acts to any skepticism and criticism of the the glaring errors in his sophomoric tests/analyses and preposterous claims. I gored his sacred cow with especially bitting logically laid out skepticism and documented my criticism of his fraudulent risk analysis and he responds in the only way he knows how.

It ain't personal, its the facts. Got it? It ain't that hard. Try another smokescreen.
I-Like-To-Bike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-07, 06:42 PM   #134
Helmet Head
Banned.
 
Helmet Head's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: San Diego
Bikes:
Posts: 13,075
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
Last time I will explain the facts to you, Jack. You are half right. Forester responds with retaliatory, vengeful, or hostile acts to any skepticism and criticism of the the glaring errors in his sophomoric tests/analyses and preposterous claims. I gored his sacred cow with especially bitting logically laid out skepticism and documented my criticism of his fraudulent risk analysis and he responds in the only way he knows how.

It ain't personal, its the facts. Got it? It ain't that hard. Try another smokescreen.
Yes, it would probably be very difficult to find an example of you acting in a hostile retaliatory way towards John Forester. Like your words above would not be an example of that. Nothing hostile there. And starting this thread would not be an example of that. Nothing retaliatory about that. Got it.

Helmet Head is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-07, 07:01 PM   #135
deputyjones
Striving for Fredness
 
deputyjones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: West Michigan
Bikes: Old Giant Rincon
Posts: 1,190
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Helmet Head
Yes, it would probably be very difficult to find an example of you acting in a hostile retaliatory way towards John Forester. Like your words above would not be an example of that. Nothing hostile there. And starting this thread would not be an example of that. Nothing retaliatory about that. Got it.

Well, at least ILTB has the gonads to do it in an open forum and not hide behind a static HTML page with handpicked quotes to attack out of context.
deputyjones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-07, 07:02 PM   #136
JRA
Senior Member
 
JRA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: St. Louis
Bikes:
Posts: 945
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Helmet Head
(attempts to rationalize personal attacks-- probably in an attempt to divert attention from the subject of this thread and, perhaps, start a flame war that would get the thread closed )
Whatever, dude.

You crack me up.
JRA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-07, 07:04 PM   #137
randya
Senior Member
 
randya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: in bed with your mom
Bikes: who cares?
Posts: 13,689
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by deputyjones
Well, at least ILTB has the gonads to do it in an open forum and not hide behind a static HTML page with handpicked quotes to attack out of context.
Exactly. If Robert Hurst is willing to 'get down in the pit and mingle with the 'plebes'', so too should John Forrrester be. 'Cause there certainly ain't no peer review on John's personal web pages.

Last edited by randya; 03-14-07 at 08:20 PM.
randya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-07, 07:36 PM   #138
buzzman
----
 
buzzman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Newton, MA
Bikes:
Posts: 4,570
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
John Forester's major contribution to cycling is exemplified by this thread- much ado about nothing. Unbelievably divisive. I know cycling is about spinning our wheels but some of us are more interested in actually going somewhere when we spin them. He's been bogging down real advocacy with his contrarian opinions for 30 years. Looks like he hasn't lost his ability to drag as many cyclists as he can into his endless cycle of nonsense.
buzzman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-07, 07:48 PM   #139
sbhikes
Dominatrikes
 
sbhikes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Still in Santa Barbara
Bikes: Catrike Pocket, Lightning Thunderbold recumbent, Trek 3000 MTB.
Posts: 4,920
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Yes, John Forester denies he was paid to speak. But the ADC web site shows that he only requires payment for his expenses. An all expenses paid visit to Santa Barbara sounds like pretty good payment to me, don't you think? I'll bet he didn't even rent a bike down at the beach.
sbhikes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-07, 07:54 PM   #140
cooker
Prefers Cicero
 
cooker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Toronto
Bikes: 1984 Trek 520; 1990s Peugeot (Canadian-made) rigid mountain bike; 2007 Bike Friday NWT; misc others
Posts: 10,666
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 494 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by N_C
Uh where does it mention BF or it's memebrs?
Apparently you didn't read it all the way down.
cooker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-07, 08:00 PM   #141
rando
Senior Member
 
rando's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Tempe, AZ
Bikes:
Posts: 2,967
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by sbhikes
Yes, John Forester denies he was paid to speak. But the ADC web site shows that he only requires payment for his expenses. An all expenses paid visit to Santa Barbara sounds like pretty good payment to me, don't you think? I'll bet he didn't even rent a bike down at the beach.
the guy's a weasel. always has been, always will be.
__________________
"Think of bicycles as rideable art that can just about save the world". ~Grant Petersen

Cyclists fare best when they recognize that there are times when acting vehicularly is not the best practice, and are flexible enough to do what is necessary as the situation warrants.--Me
rando is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-07, 08:02 PM   #142
Pete_Fagerlin1
Loved by m0ds
 
Pete_Fagerlin1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 272
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
There are some interesting parallels between Forester and Vandeman.

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande/
Pete_Fagerlin1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-07, 08:02 PM   #143
I-Like-To-Bike
Been Around Awhile
Thread Starter
 
I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi
Posts: 23,848
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by randya
Exactly. If Robert Hurst is willing to 'get down in the pit and mingle with the plebes', so to should John Forrrester be. 'Cause there certainly ain't no peer review on John's personal web pages.
Nor is there any review on the ChainGuard list where JF's latest post tipped me off to his diatribe against our BF friends. That Vehicular Cycling site requires that posters stick to the party line. The moderator will brook no thread or discussion that casts doubt on the infallibility of Vehicular Cycling Doctrine as espoused by the Forester Clan.
I-Like-To-Bike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-07, 08:06 PM   #144
sbhikes
Dominatrikes
 
sbhikes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Still in Santa Barbara
Bikes: Catrike Pocket, Lightning Thunderbold recumbent, Trek 3000 MTB.
Posts: 4,920
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
From JF's "rebuttal" web page:
Quote:
Originally Posted by JF
One of the principal critics is named Dianne, one of the leaders of the Santa Barbara Bicycling Coalition (maybe not its proper name), who spoke to me after that meeting. Her conversation at that time concerned the habit of truckers parking their trailers in the bike lane, presumably near her house. She was incensed that I did nothing about this (I live about 225 miles away), and even more incensed when I said that, as far as the cyclist is concerned, he just rides around the parked trailer. She said that she could not believe that I thought of myself as a cycling advocate. I believe that Dianne uses the pseudonym sbhikes on bikeforums.net.
LOL I did not even attend the meeting. I had to hear about it 2nd-hand. I'm also not a leader of the bicycle coaltion. I'm an ordinary member. Whoever that was who confronted John, it was not me, but I'm glad to hear that people confronted him after the meeting on his "cycling advocate" credentials.

More John Forester facts? At least I got my facts straight about him. There's his smiling face on the American Dream Coalition web site.

My it sure is quiet in here while the troops retrench their efforts...
sbhikes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-07, 08:06 PM   #145
chipcom 
Infamous Member
 
chipcom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Ohio
Bikes: Surly Big Dummy, Fuji World, 80ish Bianchi
Posts: 24,366
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRA
It ain't all that difficult. You don't have to spend much time on Forester's website to see what his bias is. If it's not the way things were done in England over half a century ago, he's opposed to it.

As a scientist, Forester is a great snake-oil salesman.

John Forester, the first to recognize the overwhelming importance of the Cyclist Inferiority Phobia, has few scientific peers, especially since Wilhelm Reich, the discover of orgone energy, died in 1957.

What I find particularly interesting is that Reich had considerably more legitimate scientific credentials than Forester ever even dreamed of having.
I was speaking from the perspective of mere mortals...I AM ChipcomMan, ya know.
__________________
"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
chipcom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-07, 08:09 PM   #146
randya
Senior Member
 
randya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: in bed with your mom
Bikes: who cares?
Posts: 13,689
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by sbhikes
Yes, John Forester denies he was paid to speak. But the ADC web site shows that he only requires payment for his expenses. An all expenses paid visit to Santa Barbara sounds like pretty good payment to me, don't you think? I'll bet he didn't even rent a bike down at the beach.
Yes, I think; here's his actual charges, from the ADC Speakers Bureau web site:

Quote:
Originally Posted by ADC
Cost: Travel expenses (from California) plus honorarium based on ability to pay and distance traveled.
randya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-07, 08:11 PM   #147
chipcom 
Infamous Member
 
chipcom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Ohio
Bikes: Surly Big Dummy, Fuji World, 80ish Bianchi
Posts: 24,366
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Helmet Head
Here's what I don't get about you: do you think ILTB has a personal vendetta or not?
Why would you not agree that he does based on whether JF also has a personal vendetta?

For what it's worth, I think JF has a personal vendetta too, and I would think that regardless of whether ILTB had one. Anyway, they obviously have it in for each other. It's quite childish, really, on both parts.
No I don't think he has a personal vendetta, I think he has a problem with what JF is selling and just plain doesn't like him based on some history that is none of my business. Just because you don't like someone doesn't mean you have a personal vendetta. I doubt ILTB lies awake at night thinking of ways he can 'get' JF, even if he does, as I do, enjoy blasting holes in this 'theories' and 'facts'. I enjoy blasting your theories too, do you think I have a personal vendetta against you?
__________________
"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
chipcom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-07, 08:15 PM   #148
chipcom 
Infamous Member
 
chipcom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Ohio
Bikes: Surly Big Dummy, Fuji World, 80ish Bianchi
Posts: 24,366
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by I_Bike
Sorry - haven't enough people pooped in the gene pool as it is?
Dude, if I somehow had your children, we'll know that the gene pool has pretty much jumped the shark.
__________________
"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
chipcom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-07, 08:16 PM   #149
I-Like-To-Bike
Been Around Awhile
Thread Starter
 
I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi
Posts: 23,848
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by sbhikes
From JF's "rebuttal" web page:


LOL I did not even attend the meeting. I had to hear about it 2nd-hand.
You must have misunderstood what you heard 2nd-hand . You really were at the meeting personally attacking the honorable gentleman.

Hey If Forester said it, it must be true. Ain't that right, Kalli, Galen and HH?
I-Like-To-Bike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-07, 08:16 PM   #150
sbhikes
Dominatrikes
 
sbhikes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Still in Santa Barbara
Bikes: Catrike Pocket, Lightning Thunderbold recumbent, Trek 3000 MTB.
Posts: 4,920
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I don't think ILTB shows any personal vendetta against anybody. He calls 'em as he sees 'em. Jofn Forester, on the other hand, keeps a long list of enemies, which I believe I have been added to by now.
sbhikes is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:35 PM.