WWJR #1? Where would John ride #1?
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WWJR #1? Where would John ride #1?
here's a photo of a road. where would John ride? What would John do?
I'm a vehicular rider, and I would ride this road outside of the door zone, according to the rules of the road. I would be in the right hand side of the road, riding in the bike lane in a vehicular manner.
WWJR? would you ignore the bike lane for political purposes, or would you ride outside the door zone? In effect, riding in the bike lane?
John, waiting to hear from you. We'll assume you still ride a bike. Where would you position yourself riding straight down this road?
I'm a vehicular rider, and I would ride this road outside of the door zone, according to the rules of the road. I would be in the right hand side of the road, riding in the bike lane in a vehicular manner.
WWJR? would you ignore the bike lane for political purposes, or would you ride outside the door zone? In effect, riding in the bike lane?
John, waiting to hear from you. We'll assume you still ride a bike. Where would you position yourself riding straight down this road?
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I wish we had roads like that where I live
But they always tend to end after one block...
And since my middle name is John, I can only assume you are asking where I would drive -
That's a perfect example of a good bike lane in my opinion - I'd stay to the right side in that lane, outside of the car doors.
But they always tend to end after one block...
And since my middle name is John, I can only assume you are asking where I would drive -
That's a perfect example of a good bike lane in my opinion - I'd stay to the right side in that lane, outside of the car doors.
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Originally Posted by Bekologist
here's a photo of a road. where would John ride? What would John do?
I'm a vehicular rider, and I would ride this road outside of the door zone, according to the rules of the road. I would be in the right hand side of the road, riding in the bike lane in a vehicular manner.
WWJR? would you ignore the bike lane for political purposes, or would you ride outside the door zone? In effect, riding in the bike lane?
John, waiting to hear from you. We'll assume you still ride a bike. Where would you position yourself riding straight down this road?
I'm a vehicular rider, and I would ride this road outside of the door zone, according to the rules of the road. I would be in the right hand side of the road, riding in the bike lane in a vehicular manner.
WWJR? would you ignore the bike lane for political purposes, or would you ride outside the door zone? In effect, riding in the bike lane?
John, waiting to hear from you. We'll assume you still ride a bike. Where would you position yourself riding straight down this road?
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Originally Posted by Bekologist
here's a photo of a road. where would John ride? What would John do?
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reading the VC lists? huh? didn't realize I had to keep up on 'lists' to ride a bike on the streets....
and that 'instruction' places you physically where, john, for riding straight ahead on this road?
and that 'instruction' places you physically where, john, for riding straight ahead on this road?
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Originally Posted by Bekologist
reading the VC lists? huh? didn't realize I had to keep up on 'lists' to ride a bike on the streets....
and that 'instruction' places you physically where, john, for riding straight ahead on this road?
and that 'instruction' places you physically where, john, for riding straight ahead on this road?
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Part of that "bike lane" is in the door zone.
I guess I'm waiting to hear why the line is so close to on-street parking, which is an answer I'll never get.
I guess I'm waiting to hear why the line is so close to on-street parking, which is an answer I'll never get.
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Originally Posted by John Forester
You appear not to have been reading the VC lists, bekologist. I repeat my standard instruction. That is, ride in the proper place for whatever you are doing, regardless of the presence or absence of a bike-lane stripe.
He can't seem to accept that means you sometimes ride in the bike lane, you sometimes don't, it just depends on the normal factors and conditions, and has nothing to do with the presence of the stripe.
My answer to the question is : it depends. It depends on the current factors and conditions, which include:
- the presence or absence of same-direction traffic, and how fast it's moving and with what volumes.
- If same direction traffic is present that is faster than me, whether 5' from the edge of the cars puts me in or outside of the bike lane (hard to tell from the photo).
- Whether there is debris in the bike lane.
- Whether I'm riding into the sun or not.
- How wide the adjacent lane is.
- If faster traffic is present, where 3' to the right of them puts me. If it puts me outside of the bike lane, that's probably where I ride. If it puts me near the stripe, that probably where I ride. If it puts me in the door zone, I take control of the lane by riding further left, well outside of the bike lane.
- etc.
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helmet, I can accept the typical spiel against riding in facilities from you, that's for sure.
That's a bike lane that's buffered, away from the door zone, and five feet wide. the majority of of the bike lane is MOST DEFINETLY not in the door zone, it is clean and free of debris. there is PLENTY of room to ride outside the door zone and still be to the right of the left white stripe.
I beleive even the dogmaticly addled VC would be riding in the bike lane, according to vehicular operation of their bike and following the rules of the road.
I predict even John Forester would be riding there, although he's going to pretend he's ignoring the stripes on the road.
the vehemently anti-facilties VC are rich in humor and denial.
That's a bike lane that's buffered, away from the door zone, and five feet wide. the majority of of the bike lane is MOST DEFINETLY not in the door zone, it is clean and free of debris. there is PLENTY of room to ride outside the door zone and still be to the right of the left white stripe.
I beleive even the dogmaticly addled VC would be riding in the bike lane, according to vehicular operation of their bike and following the rules of the road.
I predict even John Forester would be riding there, although he's going to pretend he's ignoring the stripes on the road.
the vehemently anti-facilties VC are rich in humor and denial.
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I'll answer your question Bek. I'd probably be riding at the left edge of the bike lane, but with that intersection coming up, if there was any traffic coming behind me I'd probably be getting out in the lane so they would have room to turn right behind me, rather than through me.
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"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
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Originally Posted by Bekologist
helmet, I can accept the typical spiel against riding in facilities from you, that's for sure.
That's a bike lane that's buffered, away from the door zone, and five feet wide. the majority of of the bike lane is MOST DEFINETLY not in the door zone, it is clean and free of debris. there is PLENTY of room to ride outside the door zone and still be to the right of the left white stripe.
I beleive even the dogmaticly addled VC would be riding in the bike lane, according to vehicular operation of their bike and following the rules of the road.
That's a bike lane that's buffered, away from the door zone, and five feet wide. the majority of of the bike lane is MOST DEFINETLY not in the door zone, it is clean and free of debris. there is PLENTY of room to ride outside the door zone and still be to the right of the left white stripe.
I beleive even the dogmaticly addled VC would be riding in the bike lane, according to vehicular operation of their bike and following the rules of the road.
I predict even John Forester would be riding there, although he's going to pretend he's ignoring the stripes on the road.
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Originally Posted by chipcom
I'll answer your question Bek. I'd probably be riding at the left edge of the bike lane, but with that intersection coming up, if there was any traffic coming behind me I'd probably be getting out in the lane so they would have room to turn right behind me, rather than through me.
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I would ride 5' left of the parked vehicles regardless of which side of the line that put me on.
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Originally Posted by Bekologist
That's a bike lane that's buffered, away from the door zone, and five feet wide. the majority of of the bike lane is MOST DEFINETLY not in the door zone, it is clean and free of debris. there is PLENTY of room to ride outside the door zone and still be to the right of the left white stripe.
3) "...five feet wide," YES!
3) "Clean and free of debris," YES!
4) "PLENTY of room to ride outside the door zone and still be to the right of the left white stripe," no.
I get more room from passing motorists in a standard lane, unless passing motorists ignore the stripe.
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double negative hilarity.
" A cyclist who happens to be riding in a bike lane does not mean he's not ignoring the stripe." edited... "a cyclist riding in a bike lane means he is ignoring the stripe." actually, no, helemt head. I sometimes recommend riding as if the stripes are not there, but that STILL doesn't mean i'm ignoring the bike lane stripes OR riding outside of the bike lane.
I find all this banter about ignoring the bike lane, of avoiding dogs jumping out into the road, hilarious.
On this stretch of road, a rider out of the door zone, 3 feet to the right of passing traffic, is IN THE BIKE LANE.
Galen, riding 5 FEET away from the parked cars, would be riding in the bike lane.
A vehicular cyclist CAN RIDE in the bike lane, fellas. despite the protestations seen in this thread.
" A cyclist who happens to be riding in a bike lane does not mean he's not ignoring the stripe." edited... "a cyclist riding in a bike lane means he is ignoring the stripe." actually, no, helemt head. I sometimes recommend riding as if the stripes are not there, but that STILL doesn't mean i'm ignoring the bike lane stripes OR riding outside of the bike lane.
I find all this banter about ignoring the bike lane, of avoiding dogs jumping out into the road, hilarious.
On this stretch of road, a rider out of the door zone, 3 feet to the right of passing traffic, is IN THE BIKE LANE.
Galen, riding 5 FEET away from the parked cars, would be riding in the bike lane.
A vehicular cyclist CAN RIDE in the bike lane, fellas. despite the protestations seen in this thread.
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I would ride smack dab in the middle of that bike lane, and quite happily. But then nobody cares what li'l ol' me would do.
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Originally Posted by Helmet Head
Yes, the upcoming intersection is reason to move left and out of the bike lane, but so are all the parked cars. If there is a no motor traffic, someone, or a dog, could suddenly jump out from between those cars thinking it was a quiet empty street. Better to increase your buffer to the right if there is no good reason not to.
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"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
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Originally Posted by chipcom
Left edge of that bike lane is plenty of space to accomplish both keeping out of the door zone and to see what might come from between the cars, especially if you are looking ahead, rather than what is right in front of or to the side of you. You just have a line phobia me thinks.
5' away from the cars is out of the door zone, but I'd rather be further if I could. That improves my sight lines looking ahead too.
That's just as true whether or not there happens to be a line there.
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That bike lane isn't in the door zone. You could open the door all the way and still have tons of room leftover. Sure, the door might encroach on the right edge of the bike lane, but only if someone opened the door all the way. People don't normally open the door all the way. That bike lane delineates more space than most cyclists would ever claim for themselves.
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Originally Posted by Bekologist
double negative hilarity.
" A cyclist who happens to be riding in a bike lane does not mean he's not ignoring the stripe." edited... "a cyclist riding in a bike lane means he is ignoring the stripe." .
" A cyclist who happens to be riding in a bike lane does not mean he's not ignoring the stripe." edited... "a cyclist riding in a bike lane means he is ignoring the stripe." .
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Originally Posted by Helmet Head
It has nothing to do with the line - it's just a useful frame of reference in the photo.
5' away from the cars is out of the door zone, but I'd rather be further if I could. That improves my sight lines looking ahead too.
That's just as true whether or not there happens to be a line there.
5' away from the cars is out of the door zone, but I'd rather be further if I could. That improves my sight lines looking ahead too.
That's just as true whether or not there happens to be a line there.
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"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
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hehehehe.
whatever, mr. head. your spiel is hilarious. what are you trying to say? you think MY 'parsing' your sentence isn't good enough for your intent?
whatever.
since he hasn't anwsered since his 'stripes aren't there' koan, I predict john forester would be riding (if he still rides a bike) in the space demarcated by the bike lane in that photo, just like Galen or the rest of the realistic vehicular cyclists. out of the door zone, destination positioned. in the bike lane.
like chip, I also consider Helemt's power dodge, peek-a-boo 'technique' to be complicating riding according to the rules of the road, and to even be non vehicular in the face of this quality of accomodation. perfectly acceptable to ride in as a vehicle, according to the vehicular rules of the road, in a lane on the road like this one- the bike lane.
whatever, mr. head. your spiel is hilarious. what are you trying to say? you think MY 'parsing' your sentence isn't good enough for your intent?
whatever.
since he hasn't anwsered since his 'stripes aren't there' koan, I predict john forester would be riding (if he still rides a bike) in the space demarcated by the bike lane in that photo, just like Galen or the rest of the realistic vehicular cyclists. out of the door zone, destination positioned. in the bike lane.
like chip, I also consider Helemt's power dodge, peek-a-boo 'technique' to be complicating riding according to the rules of the road, and to even be non vehicular in the face of this quality of accomodation. perfectly acceptable to ride in as a vehicle, according to the vehicular rules of the road, in a lane on the road like this one- the bike lane.
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Originally Posted by sbhikes
I would ride smack dab in the middle of that bike lane, and quite happily. But then nobody cares what li'l ol' me would do.
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Originally Posted by Bekologist
helmet, I can accept the typical spiel against riding in facilities from you, that's for sure.
That's a bike lane that's buffered, away from the door zone, and five feet wide. the majority of of the bike lane is MOST DEFINETLY not in the door zone, it is clean and free of debris. there is PLENTY of room to ride outside the door zone and still be to the right of the left white stripe.
I beleive even the dogmaticly addled VC would be riding in the bike lane, according to vehicular operation of their bike and following the rules of the road.
I predict even John Forester would be riding there, although he's going to pretend he's ignoring the stripes on the road.
the vehemently anti-facilties VC are rich in humor and denial.
That's a bike lane that's buffered, away from the door zone, and five feet wide. the majority of of the bike lane is MOST DEFINETLY not in the door zone, it is clean and free of debris. there is PLENTY of room to ride outside the door zone and still be to the right of the left white stripe.
I beleive even the dogmaticly addled VC would be riding in the bike lane, according to vehicular operation of their bike and following the rules of the road.
I predict even John Forester would be riding there, although he's going to pretend he's ignoring the stripes on the road.
the vehemently anti-facilties VC are rich in humor and denial.