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  1. #1
    Senior Member rando's Avatar
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    Chainguarders on BFers

    thought you might be interested in what a chainguard member thinks of bike forum folks; inaccuracies and generalizations abound! He also advises Chainguarders they are "wise" not to visit BF.


    "The gist of the current firefight is the assertion that JF, by
    > associating with the evil reactionaries of the American Dream
    > Coalition, has revealed his pro-sprawl, pro-motoring bias, has
    > unforgivably betrayed cyclists, and is forevermore disqualified as a
    > "bicycle advocate" (as they would typically say). Any other VC
    > proponents daring to pipe up are denounced as John's "acolytes" and
    > "minions" and cast into the outer darkness.
    >
    > The underlying reality is the usual. They don't want to share the
    > roads with motorized traffic (without, at least, magical stripes to
    > protect them), they don't want to be told that they should learn
    > cycling skills, and they think it's perfectly sensible to construct
    > segregated facilities to take them wherever they desire to travel.
    >
    > Their attitudes have been reinforced, now, by decades of cultural
    > reinforcement, so they are confident in their belief that the
    > "Foresterites" are a bunch of noisy but irrelevant dinosaurs whose
    > time is long past and who will soon be buried under new MUPs."
    >
    >
    >
    > - (name of chainguard poster)
    "Think of bicycles as rideable art that can just about save the world". ~Grant Petersen

    Cyclists fare best when they recognize that there are times when acting vehicularly is not the best practice, and are flexible enough to do what is necessary as the situation warrants.--Me

  2. #2
    Senior Member randya's Avatar
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    sounds pretty accurate to me





    Last edited by randya; 03-29-07 at 04:49 PM.

  3. #3
    pj7
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    So this person sums our entire BF community up as a whole by the ideas of the few that posted in that one thread.
    heh, kinda sounds like the things we do ourselves, but that don't make it right
    I am a sig Virus. Please put me in your sig so that I can continue to replicate.

  4. #4
    Senior Member rando's Avatar
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    well, yeah.

    since all of us think the same way and stuff.
    "Think of bicycles as rideable art that can just about save the world". ~Grant Petersen

    Cyclists fare best when they recognize that there are times when acting vehicularly is not the best practice, and are flexible enough to do what is necessary as the situation warrants.--Me

  5. #5
    Sumanitu taka owaci LittleBigMan's Avatar
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    Chainguard is famous for it's satirical, anti-facility rhetoric. Tongue in cheek humor, not much appreciated by it's opponents. MAD magazine for VC'ers.

    Yet Chainguard has it's more serious sides, such as in this link provided on the front page of it's website:

    http://www.worldbicyclerelief.org/

    Excerpt from link:


    WORLD BICYCLE RELIEF OVERVIEW
    World Bicycle Relief’s vision is that simple sustainable mobility is an essential element in disaster relief and poverty relief. In developed and developing countries, bicycles fulfill the basic mobility needs of individuals and have a direct impact in support of healthcare, education, and economic development. Bicycles empower individuals, their families, and their communities. Our mission is to provide access to independence and livelihood through the power of bicycles.
    Read More >

    WORLD BICYCLE RELIEF CURRENT PROJECT: ZAMBIA
    World Bicycle Relief’s newest project involves providing 26,000 bicycles to trained HIV/AIDS healthcare workers and educators in Zambia. The objective is to bring healthcare to patients, patients to clinics, and preventative care education to communities. The program will reach 520,000 adults, orphans, and vulnerable children.
    Read More >

    DONATION UPDATE
    Updated: February 28, 2007
    Bikes Delivered 50 26,000
    Funds Raised $714,700 $2,969,200


    So, even if you find the humor distasteful, you can log on to the website and donate for World Bicycle Relief. I'm sure AIDS victims in Zambia won't mind.
    No worries

  6. #6
    Senior Member rando's Avatar
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    Chainguard is humorous and satirical? I must not be looking in the right places!
    "Think of bicycles as rideable art that can just about save the world". ~Grant Petersen

    Cyclists fare best when they recognize that there are times when acting vehicularly is not the best practice, and are flexible enough to do what is necessary as the situation warrants.--Me

  7. #7
    Senior Member randya's Avatar
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    I'd rephrase it thusly:

    Chainguard is famous for attempting satirical, tongue in cheek humor, without success.

    MAD magazine was produced by actual humorists who put down people like the elitist snobs running Chainguard, and was a whole lot better.

  8. #8
    Sumanitu taka owaci LittleBigMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rando
    Chainguard is humorous and satirical? I must not be looking in the right places!
    Be my guest:

    http://probicycle.com/da/bluebikers.html

    Warning: don't take it too seriously.

    Excerpt:

    "Just beyond a set of registration tables manned by volunteer pedestrian-bicycle advocates, Kingsley keeps an attentive eye as another biker is directed into the "chamber", a plexiglass enclosure scarcely larger than a phone booth. Even wearing the protective goggles, there is no mistaking the look of apprehension on the biker's face. "Don't be nervous," Kingsley offers, "It will be a bit warm, but actually tickles a little."
    No worries

  9. #9
    Senior Member rando's Avatar
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    I loved MAD as a teenager. perfect for a smart-ass or wannabe smart-ass
    "Think of bicycles as rideable art that can just about save the world". ~Grant Petersen

    Cyclists fare best when they recognize that there are times when acting vehicularly is not the best practice, and are flexible enough to do what is necessary as the situation warrants.--Me

  10. #10
    Sumanitu taka owaci LittleBigMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rando
    I loved MAD as a teenager. perfect for a smart-ass or wannabe smart-ass
    Snappy Answers to Stupid Questions:

    Dentist: "Did that hurt?"

    Patient: "Oh, no, Dr. Drillbit. It didn't hurt at all. I was just concerned about the upholstery in you chair when the drill went through the back of my neck."

    No worries

  11. #11
    Senior Member Brian Ratliff's Avatar
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    Ah, yes, our bestest favoritest BF poster, reporting to chainguard. He and I have had some misunderstandings in the past; hopefully we can get past them. FWIW, I would like to appologize for my behavior towards him. I was a bit rude.

    At least some of those guys on chainguard see how Mr. Forester's presentation style and advocacy strategy kind of alienate him from other cyclists and bicyclist advocates, as shown on these forums. I wish it weren't so, as Effective Cycling's chapter 4 is probably the best manual for vehicular traffic cycling produced. If they would just yield a little and compromise a bit on the facilities part, then we wouldn't have to segregate the world into "VC'ists" and "anti-car advocates". If I were king, as the saying goes, I would set the whole facilities thing aside and concentrate on getting laws implemented in our favor and increasing the popularity of cycling and the training those new cyclists are exposed to through any means possible.

    The people in Mr. Forester's camp seem to be resigned to cycling being an extremely minor part of the transportational system. I don't believe this is true. In fact, to advocate for bicyclist's rights even, requires that one assumes that cycling will eventually reattain some sort of prominence in the transportational system.

    I am heartened though, by my experiences in the suburbs of Portland. Just yesterday, I was bicycling on my commute and I caught up with two other cyclists, and a car actually had to exert some effort to change lanes into the bike lane to make a right turn! For a moment, the bike lane was a normal lane which the motorist had to yield to several cyclists who had the right of way in that lane to make the lane change.
    Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
    "If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter

  12. #12
    Sumanitu taka owaci LittleBigMan's Avatar
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    Let's not be too hasty in judging these folks. They share some of the same goals as many of us:

    "My wife thinks cycling is a great way to spend time as a family while burning a few calories. For her, the family ride is quality time. Then again, she does not have the trailer with 50 or so stuffed animals and the 2-year-old singing "Old McDonald" attached to her bike."
    - John Kibodeaux


    "Since the bicycle makes little demand on material or energy resources, contributes little to pollution, makes a positive contribution to health and causes little death or injury, it can be regarded as the most benevolent of machines."
    - S. S. Wilson

    "Once folks are grown up, it seems, we are supposed to propel ourselves by burning petroleum."
    - Murray Carpenter
    No worries

  13. #13
    Senior Member randya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LittleBigMan
    Be my guest:

    http://probicycle.com/da/bluebikers.html

    Warning: don't take it too seriously.

    Excerpt:

    "Just beyond a set of registration tables manned by volunteer pedestrian-bicycle advocates, Kingsley keeps an attentive eye as another biker is directed into the "chamber", a plexiglass enclosure scarcely larger than a phone booth. Even wearing the protective goggles, there is no mistaking the look of apprehension on the biker's face. "Don't be nervous," Kingsley offers, "It will be a bit warm, but actually tickles a little."
    this isn't funny, its just lame

  14. #14
    Senior Member rando's Avatar
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    I know, Littlebigman. and I want to build a bridge. a big ol' love bridge! who's with me?


    Love Can Build a Bridge (The Judds)

    Id gladly walk across the desert
    With no shoes upon my feet
    To share with you the last bite
    Of bread I had to eat
    I would swim out to save you
    In your sea of broken dreams
    When all your hopes are sinkin
    Let me show you what love means

    (chorus)

    Love can build a bridge
    Between your heart and mine
    Love can build a bridge
    Dont you think its time?
    Dont you think its time?

    I would whisper love so loudly
    Every heart could understand
    That love and only love
    Can join the tribes of man
    I would give my hearts desire
    So that you might see
    The first step is to realize
    That it all begins with you and me

    (repeat chorus)

    When we stand together
    Its our finest hour
    We can do anything, anything
    Keep believin in the power

    (repeat chorus)

    Love and only love
    Love and only love
    "Think of bicycles as rideable art that can just about save the world". ~Grant Petersen

    Cyclists fare best when they recognize that there are times when acting vehicularly is not the best practice, and are flexible enough to do what is necessary as the situation warrants.--Me

  15. #15
    Sumanitu taka owaci LittleBigMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by randya
    this isn't funny, its just lame
    And I guess the program to help AIDS workers in Zambia get bicycles is lame?

    Wow. All you can focus on is what divides you.

    (EDIT: I know, Littlebigman. and I want to build a bridge. a big ol' love bridge! who's with me? )

    No worries

  16. #16
    Senior Member randya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LittleBigMan
    And I guess the program to help AIDS workers in Zambia get bicycles is lame?
    i dunno is it serious or more 'mad magazine' style humor?

  17. #17
    Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Ratliff
    In fact, to advocate for bicyclist's rights even, requires that one assumes that cycling will eventually reattain some sort of prominence in the transportational system.
    Not really. To advocate for cyclists' rights simply means you think cyclists should have rights to the road, after all, they are public rights of way and thus we should all have equal rights to use the roads (except for motorists who only have a priviledge to use the road). The fact that the guests of the road system are currently so prominent should in no way reflect on how cyclists are treated as users of the roads. I certainly don't think of myself as a second hand road user while I'm cycling just because I'm in the minority.

  18. #18
    Senior Member Brian Ratliff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joejack951
    Not really. To advocate for cyclists' rights simply means you think cyclists should have rights to the road, after all, they are public rights of way and thus we should all have equal rights to use the roads (except for motorists who only have a priviledge to use the road). The fact that the guests of the road system are currently so prominent should in no way reflect on how cyclists are treated as users of the roads. I certainly don't think of myself as a second hand road user while I'm cycling just because I'm in the minority.
    Yes, but how is this in any way a priority to anyone if there are no cyclists? If the road were uniformly made up of motorized traffic, then the mere possibility of adding a bicyclist is just a bother, especially if you have to insert words about nonexistent bicyclists into the driver's manual and provide wide outside lanes or bike lanes for their benefit.

    You have to have bicyclists in order to advocate for bicyclists' rights. The whole conflict between bicyclists and cars goes away when there are bicyclists around in numbers.

    And, newsflash, cars are not guests on the road. They are, currently, the primary users of this particular public right of way - their needs come first until another vehicle type becomes prominant enough to demand some of the pie. The fact that driving is a licensed activity just means that public safety demands that all drivers be familiar with the rules of the road. The ability to obtain a license is a right which cannot be abridged lightly.

    It's a chicken and egg problem, for sure; but not really a paradox. You just need to solve the equations simultaineously and advocate for both increased rights on the road and more bicyclists out on the street at the same time.
    Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
    "If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter

  19. #19
    Cycle Year Round CB HI's Avatar
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    http://probicycle.com/da/bluebikers.html

    Quote Originally Posted by randya
    this isn't funny, its just lame
    When I first read it, some time ago, I was ROTFL

    Then I stopped for a minute and thought about Bike Forums
    which caused me to fall down ROTFL again
    thinking how much you, rando, Bek, Diane and a few others would hate it.

  20. #20
    Sumanitu taka owaci LittleBigMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LittleBigMan
    And I guess the program to help AIDS workers in Zambia get bicycles is lame?
    Quote Originally Posted by randya
    i dunno is it serious or more 'mad magazine' style humor?
    Click on the link to donate, and see if it works.

    No worries

  21. #21
    Senior Member rando's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CB HI
    http://probicycle.com/da/bluebikers.html


    When I first read it, some time ago, I was ROTFL

    Then I stopped for a minute and thought about Bike Forums
    which caused me to fall down ROTFL again
    thinking how much you, rando, Bek, Diane and a few others would hate it.
    I didn't hate it!

    everyone deserves a good satirization once in a while! keeps you humble.
    "Think of bicycles as rideable art that can just about save the world". ~Grant Petersen

    Cyclists fare best when they recognize that there are times when acting vehicularly is not the best practice, and are flexible enough to do what is necessary as the situation warrants.--Me

  22. #22
    Senior Member rando's Avatar
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    of course, the Love Bridge I want to build would include preferential lanes for cyclists. just sayin'.
    "Think of bicycles as rideable art that can just about save the world". ~Grant Petersen

    Cyclists fare best when they recognize that there are times when acting vehicularly is not the best practice, and are flexible enough to do what is necessary as the situation warrants.--Me

  23. #23
    Sumanitu taka owaci LittleBigMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rando
    of course, the Love Bridge I want to build would include preferential lanes for cyclists. just sayin'.
    ...swept regularly...no crumbs in the bed!

    No worries

  24. #24
    Dominatrikes sbhikes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rando
    thought you might be interested in what a chainguard member thinks of bike forum folks; inaccuracies and generalizations abound! He also advises Chainguarders they are "wise" not to visit BF.


    "The gist of the current firefight is the assertion that JF, by
    > associating with the evil reactionaries of the American Dream
    > Coalition, has revealed his pro-sprawl, pro-motoring bias, has
    > unforgivably betrayed cyclists, and is forevermore disqualified as a
    > "bicycle advocate" (as they would typically say). Any other VC
    > proponents daring to pipe up are denounced as John's "acolytes" and
    > "minions" and cast into the outer darkness.
    >
    > The underlying reality is the usual. They don't want to share the
    > roads with motorized traffic (without, at least, magical stripes to
    > protect them), they don't want to be told that they should learn
    > cycling skills, and they think it's perfectly sensible to construct
    > segregated facilities to take them wherever they desire to travel.
    >
    > Their attitudes have been reinforced, now, by decades of cultural
    > reinforcement, so they are confident in their belief that the
    > "Foresterites" are a bunch of noisy but irrelevant dinosaurs whose
    > time is long past and who will soon be buried under new MUPs."
    >
    >
    >
    > - (name of chainguard poster)
    Sounds like we're finally getting through.

    I guess I'm just dumb. I don't get it.
    ~Diane
    Recumbents: Lightning Thunderbolt, '06 Catrike Pocket. Upright: Trek Mountain Bike.
    8.5 mile commute. I like bike lanes.

  25. #25
    Sumanitu taka owaci LittleBigMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sbhikes
    I guess I'm just dumb. I don't get it.
    Why can't we be different without acting like we don't have anything in common?

    Are we that afraid of each other?
    No worries

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