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  1. #1
    Senior Member randya's Avatar
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    I though being hit from behind was the least likely crash scenario, according to VC

    Two arrests in Bend fatal hit-and-run
    http://www.ktvz.com/story.cfm?storyID=19236
    Investigation of fatal hit-run car-bike crash shut Third Street in south Bend for nine hours Tuesday. (KTVZ.COM/Barney Lerten)
    Updated: 8:37 AM, Apr. 18, 2007



    By Barney Lerten, KTVZ.com

    Two arrests have been made, one for hindering prosecution, in the violent hit-and-run death of a bicyclist on Bend's Southeast Third Street early Tuesday, police said.

    Capt. Jim Porter confirmed to KTVZ.COM that the alleged driver of the car has been arrested, along with a second person arrested earlier on a charge of hindering prosecution. Their identities, as well as the victim's, should be released later in the day, Porter said. He also confirmed that a car found burned on China Hat Road south of Bend late Tuesday morning is the one believed to have struck the woman bicyclist from behind, at a high rate of speed, as she rode north of Third Street around 2:30 a.m.

    The investigation at the crash site - called "horrific" and "horrendous" by officers and other witnesses - shut the busy business thoroughfare for nine hours Tuesday morning.

    A newer-model silver Mercedes was sought in the crash, based on pieces of the car strewn on the road - and late Tuesday morning, a car matching that description was found burning about 200 feet off China Hat Road, a mile and a half south of town. Porter said it burned so fiercely there were "puddles of aluminum," and expressed surprise that no neighbor had reported the blaze.

    Reed Lane between Third Street and Parrell Road also was closed for the investigation, and officers said the car apparently swerved onto Reed Lane after the collision.

    Several officers called it the worst or one of the worst such crashes they had seen.

    The road shutdown affected many drivers and workers on one of the city's busiest commercial thoroughfares, through and well past the Tuesday morning rush hour. Many were left wondering what was going on as traffic was detoured onto other streets, including Parrell Road and the Bend Parkway.

    Oregon State Police assisted in the crash scene investigation.

    Anyone with information on the case was asked to call police at 322-2960.

  2. #2
    genec genec's Avatar
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    Somehow those hit from behind stats only apply to bikes... And were derived from data collected in the '70s. Hit from behind or "rear ender" accidents are the most likely type of collision for motorists.

    Which is why I wonder about cyclists that tend to ride centerish and in the same flow as motor vehicles... would they too not be subject to the same type of collisions as motor vehicles?

  3. #3
    Banned. galen_52657's Avatar
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    2:30 am ??? - it will be found to be a drunk driving incident. Why try to start a debate about the likelihood of being struck from behind when driver impairment will be the determining factor?

  4. #4
    totally louche Bekologist's Avatar
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    a Seattle cyclist was hit from behind by a policeman in a patrol car a couple of months ago at 8:30 in the morning- daylight, blinkies, the whole safety kit and kaboodle. the policeman was observed speeding and driving recklessly right before he hit the cyclist.

    This case in Bend is particularily odious; Attempting to destroy evidence after running someone down in the road and killing them in a traffic accident. How low has social responsibility sunk in this country?

    My deepest condolences to the victims' family. Rest in peace, fellow rider.
    "Evidence, anecdote and methodology all support planning for roadway bike traffic."

  5. #5
    Striving for Fredness deputyjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by genec
    Somehow those hit from behind stats only apply to bikes... And were derived from data collected in the '70s. Hit from behind or "rear ender" accidents are the most likely type of collision for motorists.

    Which is why I wonder about cyclists that tend to ride centerish and in the same flow as motor vehicles... would they too not be subject to the same type of collisions as motor vehicles?
    That is my question as well. I have way too much anecdotal evidence in my own experience to simply disregard this. "Failure to stop in the assured clear distance ahead" is by far the #1 ticket written in my county.

    The other factor is that even though these types of collisions might be less frequent they would also tend to be much more disastrous when they do occur.
    Monsignor: We must always fear evil men. But there is another kind of evil that we must fear the most, and that is the indifference of good men.
    Connor: I do believe the monsignor's finally got the point.
    Murphy: Aye.

    OttawaCountyDSA.com

  6. #6
    Striving for Fredness deputyjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bekologist
    a Seattle cyclist was hit from behind by a policeman in a patrol car a couple of months ago at 8:30 in the morning- daylight, blinkies, the whole safety kit and kaboodle. the policeman was observed speeding and driving recklessly right before he hit the cyclist.

    This case in Bend is particularily odious; Attempting to destroy evidence after running someone down in the road and killing them in a traffic accident. How low has social responsibility sunk in this country?

    My deepest condolences to the victims' family. Rest in peace, fellow rider.
    That just sucks all around....
    Monsignor: We must always fear evil men. But there is another kind of evil that we must fear the most, and that is the indifference of good men.
    Connor: I do believe the monsignor's finally got the point.
    Murphy: Aye.

    OttawaCountyDSA.com

  7. #7
    Senior Member Dchiefransom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by galen_52657
    2:30 am ??? - it will be found to be a drunk driving incident. Why try to start a debate about the likelihood of being struck from behind when driver impairment will be the determining factor?
    My money would go toward a newer vehicle with darkly tinted windows, so tinted that even the brightest blinkie would be hard to see from inside. I don't believe they sell any vehicles anymore without some kind of tinting on the windshield, and some of them I can't even see through.
    Silver Eagle Pilot

  8. #8
    Striving for Fredness deputyjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dchiefransom
    My money would go toward a newer vehicle with darkly tinted windows, so tinted that even the brightest blinkie would be hard to see from inside. I don't believe they sell any vehicles anymore without some kind of tinting on the windshield, and some of them I can't even see through.
    Although I would agree that lots of vehicles have tint, none of them have any significant tint on the windshield except for the strip across the top from the factory.
    Monsignor: We must always fear evil men. But there is another kind of evil that we must fear the most, and that is the indifference of good men.
    Connor: I do believe the monsignor's finally got the point.
    Murphy: Aye.

    OttawaCountyDSA.com

  9. #9
    genec genec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deputyjones
    That is my question as well. I have way too much anecdotal evidence in my own experience to simply disregard this. "Failure to stop in the assured clear distance ahead" is by far the #1 ticket written in my county.

    The other factor is that even though these types of collisions might be less frequent they would also tend to be much more disastrous when they do occur.
    I tried to address the issue in this thread, but folks kept falling back on the only published bike stats, those from the 70's.

    My argument was basically that those earlier stats were gathered from a time when cyclists tended to stay right. (I myself recall often putting one foot on the curb, and during group rides most cyclists did the same). Now there is something of a movement to move left, to ride more centerish, to make yourself more visible. What might result from those "centerish" habits? I don't deny the visibility that riding centerish brings, I just wonder what else might come of "meshing" with autos.

  10. #10
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deputyjones
    The other factor is that even though these types of collisions might be less frequent they would also tend to be much more disastrous when they do occur.
    These rear end collisions appear to be a smaller relative percentage of "crashes" (a favorite term of the statistical manipulators) when the total of "crashes" is inflated with as many sidewalk "crashes," children's playground "crash" induced boo-boos, off road adventure "crashes", etc., as can be found to minimize the impact of rear end collision on the bogus "crash rate".

    As deputy jones points out, and has been pointed out, ad infinitum, the statistical manipulators only address total numbers of crashes while ignoring the importance of considering the varying crash severities. Such bogus risk analysis results in conclusions that are worth less than total ignorance of the subject.

  11. #11
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by genec
    I tried to address the issue in this thread, but folks kept falling back on the only published bike stats, those from the 70's.

    My argument was basically that those earlier stats were gathered from a time when cyclists tended to stay right. (I myself recall often putting one foot on the curb, and during group rides most cyclists did the same). Now there is something of a movement to move left, to ride more centerish, to make yourself more visible. What might result from those "centerish" habits? I don't deny the visibility that riding centerish brings, I just wonder what else might come of "meshing" with autos.
    I've criticized for years the leading proponent of conclusions on bicycling risk based on just such statistical manipulation as ignoring the probability of exposure of cyclists to the varying scenarios. Of course that is just one of a whole host of similar statistical distortions from the same source.

    A few folks do keep posting the same misleading stats, and the same misleading interpretations and the same bogus conclusions because they must feel repetition brings on validation to their guesswork/wishful thinking and/or firmly held beliefs in their own "reasonable assumptions."

  12. #12
    Part-time epistemologist invisiblehand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
    As deputy jones points out, and has been pointed out, ad infinitum, the statistical manipulators only address total numbers of crashes while ignoring the importance of considering the varying crash severities. Such bogus risk analysis results in conclusions that are worth less than total ignorance of the subject.
    Has anyone done this with mortalities? Generally, that data is much better.

    -G

    EDIT: It is pretty hard to fake a mortality. And I get the sense that police/traffic reports for such incidents are taken much more seriously.

  13. #13
    Dominatrikes sbhikes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deputyjones
    That is my question as well. I have way too much anecdotal evidence in my own experience to simply disregard this. "Failure to stop in the assured clear distance ahead" is by far the #1 ticket written in my county.
    What are the circumstances when you give this ticket? Is it usually after someone has hit someone else from behind?
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  14. #14
    Sumanitu taka owaci LittleBigMan's Avatar
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    This is a terrible tragedy.

    Heh...sigh.

    It's almost too sad to comment on.

    So I won't.
    No worries

  15. #15
    lunatic fringe Dogbait's Avatar
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    Unhappy

    Quote Originally Posted by Bekologist
    ..............................This case in Bend is particularily odious; Attempting to destroy evidence after running someone down in the road and killing them in a traffic accident. How low has social responsibility sunk in this country?

    My deepest condolences to the victims' family. Rest in peace, fellow rider.
    Apparently a father-son team of drug dealers from California.

    The story in THE OREGONIAN


  16. #16
    Senior Member sggoodri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by invisiblehand
    Has anyone done this with mortalities? Generally, that data is much better.
    And rarer. You have to have some fatalities in order determine anything.

    Here's a survey of car-bike crash reports we did for my city of over 100,000 over six years:
    http://www.humantransport.org/bicycl...s/cary2003.pdf
    No fatalities were reported.

    A similar study in Chapel Hill:
    http://www.humantransport.org/bicycl...ons/ch2000.pdf

    Chapel hill did recently have a fatal overtaking collision. The cyclist was operating at night, on a high speed road, without a rear light, and was struck by the corner of a bus. I don't know of any other recent (last few years) cyclist fatalities in the area.

    Having looked at statewide data as well, I can say that the above stats and scenarios are pretty typical for suburban/urban areas for the state.

    A lot of the cycling fatalities nationwide involve overtaking, but most of these happen to unlighted cyclists at night, particularly where one or both parties are drunk. Somewhere around 100 cyclists a year are killed in the US by overtaking motorists in daylight. It happens, but so do lots of things.

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