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  1. #1
    Senior Member randya's Avatar
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    Someone convince me not to put John Forester on ignore

    He's more biased and arrogant than Helmet Head, he doesn't listen to what he's told, he's immune to logic and reason, and sometimes it seems like a discussion with a bag of hammers would have a more reasonable outcome.

    Any reason not to put him on ignore (just like the most of the rest of the bicycling community did a long time ago)?

  2. #2
    Cheesmonger Extraordinair natelutkjohn's Avatar
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    Wink

    Quoted from another thread..[JF] Vehicular cycling clearly is the appropriate technique for operating on roadways; the fact that it is so difficult to achieve in America demonstrates that the concerns about vehicular cycling have to cover the social difficulties that prevent it from being the standard method. I don't make it complicated; American society, which apparently includes you, too, makes the obvious almost impossible.

    Anytime someone can indirectly compare VC to the civil rights movement, they obviously have something to say.

  3. #3
    pj7
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    But... but... but....
    I'm drawing a blank here, sorry.
    I am a sig Virus. Please put me in your sig so that I can continue to replicate.

  4. #4
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    Go read the current last page of the Stripes II thread. Read John C. Ratliff's "logic" then read JF's responses using the same "logic." If you can refute any of JF's logic in that thread, please do so as I'd love to read it.

  5. #5
    pj7
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    Quote Originally Posted by joejack951
    Go read the current last page of the Stripes II thread. Read John C. Ratliff's "logic" then read JF's responses using the same "logic." If you can refute any of JF's logic in that thread, please do so as I'd love to read it.
    Have you ever noticed that even a broken clock is right twice a day?
    I am a sig Virus. Please put me in your sig so that I can continue to replicate.

  6. #6
    Senior Member rando's Avatar
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    I know. He's like Helmet Head on steroids. sometimes he says things that are reasonable, and then turns around and says something completely nuts. and their writing style is so similar it drives me crazy.
    "Think of bicycles as rideable art that can just about save the world". ~Grant Petersen

    Cyclists fare best when they recognize that there are times when acting vehicularly is not the best practice, and are flexible enough to do what is necessary as the situation warrants.--Me

  7. #7
    BF's Level 12 Wizard SingingSabre's Avatar
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    I like to read his posts when I'm not feeling well. They make me feel better.

    Reminds me that there are people more oblivious than I...
    Shameless plug (my sites):
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bklyn
    Obviously, the guy's like a 12th level white wizard or something. His mere presence is a danger to mortals.

  8. #8
    I drink your MILKSHAKE Raiyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by randya
    He's more biased and arrogant than Helmet Head, he doesn't listen to what he's told, he's immune to logic and reason, and sometimes it seems like a discussion with a bag of hammers would have a more reasonable outcome.

    Any reason not to put him on ignore (just like the most of the rest of the bicycling community did a long time ago)?
    I got nothing. To me John Forester = L. Ron Hubbard , Helmet Head = Tom Cruise
    I choose not to be a member of either wacked out cult.

  9. #9
    Senior Member rando's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raiyn
    I got nothing. To me John Forester = L. Ron Hubbard , Helmet Head = Tom Cruise
    I choose not to be a member of either wacked out cult.
    you nailed it.

    Last edited by rando; 04-25-07 at 07:40 PM.
    "Think of bicycles as rideable art that can just about save the world". ~Grant Petersen

    Cyclists fare best when they recognize that there are times when acting vehicularly is not the best practice, and are flexible enough to do what is necessary as the situation warrants.--Me

  10. #10
    pj7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raiyn
    I got nothing. To me John Forester = L. Ron Hubbard , Helmet Head = Tom Cruise
    I choose not to be a member of either wacked out cult.
    Dude, I've said that before myself.
    VC, I mean VC is like Scientology. And they always end their arguments (not discussions) with "you just don't get it".
    I can't wait for the movie to come out.
    I am a sig Virus. Please put me in your sig so that I can continue to replicate.

  11. #11
    Dominatrikes sbhikes's Avatar
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    How much do I have to pay to be "clear?"

    I've been considering putting him on ignore, too. Despite ridiculing others for being "emotional" he oozes emotion with every word. In fact, his phony logic is a compensatory tool he uses to try to mask his emotion. But it doesn't work.

    He has nothing to say for cycling. He advocates for autocentric transportation planning and assumes you can just shoehorn everybody into it, despite all the empirical evidence to the contrary. Despite the studies showing that autocentric road design is hindering economic growth and is having a negative effect on our communities. Despite the fact that many communities want something different, build something different and are happy with the outcome. He's an anachronism.

    I might just put this whole forum on ignore. Let the John Forester VCers have a big group hug here where they can be sequestered from normal society. Have you noticed that there have actually been some interesting topics in the A&S main forum lately?
    ~Diane
    Recumbents: Lightning Thunderbolt, '06 Catrike Pocket. Upright: Trek Mountain Bike.
    8.5 mile commute. I like bike lanes.

  12. #12
    pj7
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    Quote Originally Posted by sbhikes
    How much do I have to pay to be "clear?"

    I've been considering putting him on ignore, too. Despite ridiculing others for being "emotional" he oozes emotion with every word. In fact, his phony logic is a compensatory tool he uses to try to mask his emotion. But it doesn't work.

    He has nothing to say for cycling. He advocates for autocentric transportation planning and assumes you can just shoehorn everybody into it, despite all the empirical evidence to the contrary. Despite the studies showing that autocentric road design is hindering economic growth and is having a negative effect on our communities. Despite the fact that many communities want something different, build something different and are happy with the outcome. He's an anachronism.

    I might just put this whole forum on ignore. Let the John Forester VCers have a big group hug here where they can be sequestered from normal society. Have you noticed that there have actually been some interesting topics in the A&S main forum lately?
    He has to be that way. He's here to sell books, remember?
    I am a sig Virus. Please put me in your sig so that I can continue to replicate.

  13. #13
    Sumanitu taka owaci LittleBigMan's Avatar
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    Someone convince me not to put John Forester on ignore
    Put him on ignore.
    No worries

  14. #14
    totally louche Bekologist's Avatar
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    how can he sell books? mossy john hasn't had a book 'in print' for over 20 years.

    his stuff is so pedantic, even the most mouldy bookstore wouldn't stock it. likely pulped years ago, sold by weight to the recycler.
    "Evidence, anecdote and methodology all support planning for roadway bike traffic."

  15. #15
    Dominatrikes sbhikes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LittleBigMan
    Put him on ignore.
    Did you?
    ~Diane
    Recumbents: Lightning Thunderbolt, '06 Catrike Pocket. Upright: Trek Mountain Bike.
    8.5 mile commute. I like bike lanes.

  16. #16
    Part-time epistemologist invisiblehand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by randya
    He's more biased and arrogant than Helmet Head, he doesn't listen to what he's told, he's immune to logic and reason, and sometimes it seems like a discussion with a bag of hammers would have a more reasonable outcome.

    Any reason not to put him on ignore (just like the most of the rest of the bicycling community did a long time ago)?
    Because a bunch of posts will no longer make any sense.

  17. #17
    Sumanitu taka owaci LittleBigMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sbhikes
    Did you?
    I don't put anyone on ignore. I just ignore them.
    No worries

  18. #18
    Senior Member rando's Avatar
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    scroll down. works for me!
    "Think of bicycles as rideable art that can just about save the world". ~Grant Petersen

    Cyclists fare best when they recognize that there are times when acting vehicularly is not the best practice, and are flexible enough to do what is necessary as the situation warrants.--Me

  19. #19
    Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by pj7
    Have you ever noticed that even a broken clock is right twice a day?
    This makes no sense, unless you are saying that John is only right some of time, even though he's always said the same thing when arguing about the same things.

  20. #20
    Senior Member randya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joejack951
    ...he's always said the same thing when arguing about the same things.
    precisely!!!

  21. #21
    totally louche Bekologist's Avatar
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    i think it'll be best if the sane and reasonable riders ignore mossy john completely.

    using his name or discussing his tactics by name or initials will up his google relativity, and the best thing is if his dystopian visions and skewed ideas get banished to the far reaches of the internet dustbin.

    I'm personally going to misspell mossy jon's name and ideology from now on, and ignore his ranting acerbic pedantism as well.
    "Evidence, anecdote and methodology all support planning for roadway bike traffic."

  22. #22
    Dominatrikes sbhikes's Avatar
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    Unfortunately, JF's web site comes up very easily in search. Not only that, but you can still buy his book at Amazon.
    ~Diane
    Recumbents: Lightning Thunderbolt, '06 Catrike Pocket. Upright: Trek Mountain Bike.
    8.5 mile commute. I like bike lanes.

  23. #23
    totally louche Bekologist's Avatar
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    every brick and mortar store I've looked in- even Powells' in Portland, arguably one of the best bookstores in america- doesn't have old mossy.

    I think he's out of print for a reason- unreadable! what editor would let that stuff fly nowadays? he was pubbed by a university house, traditionally prone to printing unreadable, opiniated rantings of self described 'experts'.
    "Evidence, anecdote and methodology all support planning for roadway bike traffic."

  24. #24
    Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by randya
    precisely!!!
    Is there something wrong with being consistent? Also, please read my statement in the context that I wrote it

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by randya
    He's more biased and arrogant than Helmet Head, he doesn't listen to what he's told, he's immune to logic and reason, and sometimes it seems like a discussion with a bag of hammers would have a more reasonable outcome.

    Any reason not to put him on ignore (just like the most of the rest of the bicycling community did a long time ago)?
    Surely, the fact that I write on this list demonstrates that I pay attention to what is being written. Am I immune to logic and reason? Well, I am immune to logic and reason that is based on your inaccurate view of traffic cycling. That's because your ideology is so far from reality that you cannot think reasonably about the real world. The subject has come up repeatedly, and I repeat it again because it is so relevant to your situation. You praise a system in which a stream of cyclists is directed across a stream of motorists. Any traffic engineer knows that this is the wrong way to design the intersection. You have been unable, despite the continuous references, to provide any explanation, let alone an explanation that attempts to be based on reality and reason.

    Yes, I am immune to your illogical arguments; present some arguments that are based on facts and reason and I will consider agreeing with them.

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