Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > > >

Vehicular Cycling (VC) No other subject has polarized the A&S members like VC has. Here's a place to share, debate, and educate.

View Poll Results: Do you consider your riding style to be vehicular cycling, generally
Yes 21 70.00%
No 9 30.00%
Voters: 30. You may not vote on this poll

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 05-09-07, 03:53 PM   #1
zeytoun
Non-Custom Member
Thread Starter
 
zeytoun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Portland, Oregon
Bikes: 1975-1980 SR road bike
Posts: 1,613
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Do you consider yourself a vehicular cyclist?

Without debating the definition of a vehicular cyclist, do you consider yourself one generally, in the sense that you generally believe that you are safer when you act and are treated like a slow-moving vehicle, as opposed to a pedestrian on wheels?

You may or may not ride in bike lanes or gutters, depending on both circumstances, and your ideas of safety. But generally, you take the lane (or move left to avoid a RTOL) at intersections, when you are at the speed of traffic, to avoid door zones or narrow lanes and dangerous passers, when there is any other "danger" to being farther right, or when there is no reason to stay right.

Only under unusual circumstances would you even consider riding on a sidewalk

There are situations in which you may or may not ride strictly vehicularly, like on an MUP, or specific scenarios in which you feel it is not necessary for safety (like an unclipped stop at an empty 4-way stop), but in general, the majority of your riding follows the basic principles of vehicular cycling, as you understand them.
zeytoun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-07, 04:07 PM   #2
zeytoun
Non-Custom Member
Thread Starter
 
zeytoun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Portland, Oregon
Bikes: 1975-1980 SR road bike
Posts: 1,613
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Without debating the definition of a vehicular cyclist
I'm a uniter, HH.
zeytoun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-07, 04:08 PM   #3
rando
Senior Member
 
rando's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Tempe, AZ
Bikes:
Posts: 2,967
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I said no, because I do things a VC would never do. like ride on sidewalks.
rando is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-07, 04:09 PM   #4
JRA
Senior Member
 
JRA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: St. Louis
Bikes:
Posts: 945
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I consider myself a vehicular cyclist. I ride according to the vehicular rules of the road and I have done so almost daily for approximately four decades.

I do not by any stretch of the imagination, consider myself a VC-ist. I think John Forester's social and psychological theories are quite wrong, not even approaching reality, and I sincerely believe that Forester inspired VC-ist lunacy is the worst thing that has happened to vehicular cycling in my lifetime.

Last edited by JRA; 05-09-07 at 04:14 PM.
JRA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-07, 04:15 PM   #5
zeytoun
Non-Custom Member
Thread Starter
 
zeytoun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Portland, Oregon
Bikes: 1975-1980 SR road bike
Posts: 1,613
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
I said no, because I do things a VC would never do. like ride on sidewalks.
No judgement here, you have your own free will.

I used to ride on sidewalks about 25% of the time to avoid certain traffic-related complications. But I was also always careful at intersections, and always considerate to pedestrians.

Now I am in the habit of riding vehicularly, and it has become almost a taboo to even think about getting on a sidewallk. It's just more comfortable to my current style.
zeytoun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-07, 05:11 PM   #6
joejack951
Senior Member
 
joejack951's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Wilmington, DE
Bikes: 1984 Trek 660, 2003 Specialized Hardrock, 2004 LOOK KG386i (RIP), 2005 Iron Horse Warrior Expert, 2009 Pedal Force CX1, 2014 Islabikes CNOC 14 (son's)
Posts: 10,189
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 189 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by rando
I said no, because I do things a VC would never do. like ride on sidewalks.
I rode on a sidewalk yesterday on my way to go get water ice. It's the only way to get between two neighborhoods on the way there without going onto the less pleasant arterials (it was rush hour and I felt like taking the quieter, longer route). I also rode on a MUP as part of the same route. I did "take the lane" through the neighborhoods though, at about 10mph.
joejack951 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-07, 05:29 PM   #7
pj7
On Sabbatical
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 1,543
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I never voted.
I am not a "Vehicular Cyclist" but I do ride "vehicularly" when it suits me and when necessary to do so.
As far as the safer when you act and are treated like a slow-moving vehicle goes, I find I act more often than I'm treated. In a perfect society I would be treated like a slower moving vehicle when I act as though I am one, but reality is a different beast and I have to adapt to the circumstances.
pj7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-07, 05:49 PM   #8
chipcom 
Infamous Member
 
chipcom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Ohio
Bikes: Surly Big Dummy, Fuji World, 80ish Bianchi
Posts: 24,366
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
When I ride on the road I ride according to the rules and laws of the road - cept when I don't. Vehicular cycling is just one tool in the tool box, but in general, when on the road, I ride vehicularly.
__________________
"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
chipcom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-07, 05:53 PM   #9
chipcom 
Infamous Member
 
chipcom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Ohio
Bikes: Surly Big Dummy, Fuji World, 80ish Bianchi
Posts: 24,366
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by joejack951
I rode on a sidewalk yesterday on my way to go get water ice. It's the only way to get between two neighborhoods on the way there without going onto the less pleasant arterials (it was rush hour and I felt like taking the quieter, longer route). I also rode on a MUP as part of the same route. I did "take the lane" through the neighborhoods though, at about 10mph.
OMG JJ, you have the phobia!!!
__________________
"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
chipcom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-07, 06:27 PM   #10
I-Like-To-Bike
Been Around Awhile
 
I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi
Posts: 23,857
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by chipcom
OMG JJ, you have the phobia!!!
And I got a notion.
I-Like-To-Bike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-07, 06:53 PM   #11
chipcom 
Infamous Member
 
chipcom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Ohio
Bikes: Surly Big Dummy, Fuji World, 80ish Bianchi
Posts: 24,366
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
And I got a notion.
I'll see your notion and raise you a bottle of lotion...and some porn.
__________________
"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
chipcom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-07, 07:12 PM   #12
rando
Senior Member
 
rando's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Tempe, AZ
Bikes:
Posts: 2,967
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
another reason I identified myself as NOT VC is that the words/abbreviation/ acronym seems to be accompanied by so much total crap, political posturing, misinformation, sophistic game playing and negativity I don't want to be a part of it. at all.

I'll follow the rules of the road, usually.
and sometimes not.
rando is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-07, 07:20 PM   #13
pj7
On Sabbatical
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 1,543
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by rando
another reason I identified myself as NOT VC is that the words/abbreviation/ acronym seems to be accompanied by so much total crap, political posturing, misinformation, sophistic game playing and negativity I don't want to be a part of it. at all.

I'll follow the rules of the road, usually.
and sometimes not.
Right!
Who needs a *another* label in order to ride your bike lawfully in the street and obey the rules. We already have one, it's called "law abiding citizen".
pj7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-07, 07:26 PM   #14
joejack951
Senior Member
 
joejack951's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Wilmington, DE
Bikes: 1984 Trek 660, 2003 Specialized Hardrock, 2004 LOOK KG386i (RIP), 2005 Iron Horse Warrior Expert, 2009 Pedal Force CX1, 2014 Islabikes CNOC 14 (son's)
Posts: 10,189
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 189 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by rando
I'll follow the rules of the road, usually.
and sometimes not.
What rules of the road do you not follow? Why?
joejack951 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-07, 07:29 PM   #15
joejack951
Senior Member
 
joejack951's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Wilmington, DE
Bikes: 1984 Trek 660, 2003 Specialized Hardrock, 2004 LOOK KG386i (RIP), 2005 Iron Horse Warrior Expert, 2009 Pedal Force CX1, 2014 Islabikes CNOC 14 (son's)
Posts: 10,189
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 189 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by chipcom
OMG JJ, you have the phobia!!!
Not the phobia! I hope I didn't catch the gay or the HIV too
joejack951 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-07, 07:48 PM   #16
I-Like-To-Bike
Been Around Awhile
 
I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi
Posts: 23,857
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by chipcom
I'll see your notion and raise you a bottle of lotion...and some porn.
How 'bout a notion to rock (with your partner) in the motion of the ocean? Note: credit to James Brown "It's a Man's, Man's World" Live at the Apollo version.
I-Like-To-Bike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-07, 07:50 PM   #17
sbhikes
Dominatrikes
 
sbhikes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Still in Santa Barbara
Bikes: Catrike Pocket, Lightning Thunderbold recumbent, Trek 3000 MTB.
Posts: 4,920
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I guess I had to vote no because I don't subscribe to the Forester brand and I often do things that are more bicycular than vehicular. I do try to ride predictably and safely for the most part.
sbhikes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-07, 08:10 PM   #18
pj7
On Sabbatical
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 1,543
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by sbhikes
I guess I had to vote no because I don't subscribe to the Forester brand and I often do things that are more bicycular than vehicular. I do try to ride predictably and safely for the most part.
I bet you a wooden nickel someone is going to point out to you that a bicycle is a vehicle in the coming posts.
pj7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-07, 08:22 PM   #19
rando
Senior Member
 
rando's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Tempe, AZ
Bikes:
Posts: 2,967
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by joejack951
What rules of the road do you not follow? Why?
it depends!

for one, not stopping for a stop sign if there's no one around.
riding on deserted sidewalks.
cutting across lots and through alleys.
rando is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-07, 08:24 PM   #20
chipcom 
Infamous Member
 
chipcom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Ohio
Bikes: Surly Big Dummy, Fuji World, 80ish Bianchi
Posts: 24,366
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by pj7
I bet you a wooden nickel someone is going to point out to you that a bicycle is a vehicle in the coming posts.
Diane, a bicycle is a vehicle in most states...but not your beloved California. Do I get a piece of that wooden nickle?
__________________
"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
chipcom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-07, 08:35 PM   #21
sbhikes
Dominatrikes
 
sbhikes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Still in Santa Barbara
Bikes: Catrike Pocket, Lightning Thunderbold recumbent, Trek 3000 MTB.
Posts: 4,920
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
You can have the wooden nickel, but only if you can pick it up without stopping and dismounting from your slow-moving vehicle.
sbhikes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-07, 08:47 PM   #22
AlmostTrick
Yabba-Dabba-Doo!
 
AlmostTrick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Bedrock, IL
Bikes: 1968 Schwinn Orange Krate, 5 speed stick shift
Posts: 4,808
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by rando
another reason I identified myself as NOT VC is that the words/abbreviation/ acronym seems to be accompanied by so much total crap, political posturing, misinformation, sophistic game playing and negativity I don't want to be a part of it. at all.
I vote yes, why not? The basic concepts make sense and do help cyclists fit in with traffic. No one I know personally really has a clue about what VC is, or that cyclists online argue about it like it's some kind of religion.
AlmostTrick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-07, 08:48 PM   #23
I-Like-To-Bike
Been Around Awhile
 
I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi
Posts: 23,857
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by sbhikes
You can have the wooden nickel, but only if you can pick it up without stopping and dismounting from your slow-moving vehicle.
Hey, that reminds me of a trick I saw performed at a sideshow at the Kutztown, PA county fair over 40 years ago.
I-Like-To-Bike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-07, 09:04 PM   #24
JRA
Senior Member
 
JRA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: St. Louis
Bikes:
Posts: 945
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by chipcom
Diane, a bicycle is a vehicle in most states...but not your beloved California. Do I get a piece of that wooden nickle?
John Forester, that great champion of "cyclists fare best..." opposed attempting to change California law to define a bicycle as a vehicle. "Why?" you ask. Well, if a bicycle were defined as a vehicle, in the absense of changes to other laws to include exceptions for bicyclists, then bicyclists might actually be required to obey the same rules that drivers of other vehicles obey (oh, the horror of it!). That's right. Despite the fact that Foresterites have "Same Roads, Same Rules" as a slogan, the great Forester himself opposes actually requiring bicyclists to obey the same rules that drivers of other vehicles obey. Go figure. So much for the internal consistancy of VC-ism.

"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds" - Emerson

We sure don't need any more hobgoblins than we already have.
JRA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-07, 09:12 PM   #25
JRA
Senior Member
 
JRA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: St. Louis
Bikes:
Posts: 945
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
Hey, that reminds me of a trick I saw performed at a sideshow at the Kutztown, PA county fair over 40 years ago.
I could do a lot of tricks 40 years ago.

The early hobgoblin gets the wooden nickel (I actually have some wooden nickels-- and a bowl full of mills).
JRA is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:50 PM.