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View Poll Results: Do you consider your riding style to be vehicular cycling, generally

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  • Yes

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  • No

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  1. #1
    Non-Custom Member zeytoun's Avatar
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    Do you consider yourself a vehicular cyclist?

    Without debating the definition of a vehicular cyclist, do you consider yourself one generally, in the sense that you generally believe that you are safer when you act and are treated like a slow-moving vehicle, as opposed to a pedestrian on wheels?

    You may or may not ride in bike lanes or gutters, depending on both circumstances, and your ideas of safety. But generally, you take the lane (or move left to avoid a RTOL) at intersections, when you are at the speed of traffic, to avoid door zones or narrow lanes and dangerous passers, when there is any other "danger" to being farther right, or when there is no reason to stay right.

    Only under unusual circumstances would you even consider riding on a sidewalk

    There are situations in which you may or may not ride strictly vehicularly, like on an MUP, or specific scenarios in which you feel it is not necessary for safety (like an unclipped stop at an empty 4-way stop), but in general, the majority of your riding follows the basic principles of vehicular cycling, as you understand them.
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  2. #2
    Non-Custom Member zeytoun's Avatar
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    Without debating the definition of a vehicular cyclist
    I'm a uniter, HH.
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  3. #3
    Senior Member rando's Avatar
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    I said no, because I do things a VC would never do. like ride on sidewalks.

  4. #4
    JRA
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    I consider myself a vehicular cyclist. I ride according to the vehicular rules of the road and I have done so almost daily for approximately four decades.

    I do not by any stretch of the imagination, consider myself a VC-ist. I think John Forester's social and psychological theories are quite wrong, not even approaching reality, and I sincerely believe that Forester inspired VC-ist lunacy is the worst thing that has happened to vehicular cycling in my lifetime.
    Last edited by JRA; 05-09-07 at 04:14 PM.
    "It may even be that motoring is more healthful than not motoring; death rates were certainly higher in the pre-motoring age."- John Forester
    "Laws cannot be properly understood as if written in plain English..."- Forester defending obfuscation.
    "Motorist propaganda, continued for sixty years, is what has put cyclists on sidewalks." - Forester, sociologist in his own mind
    "'There are no rules of the road on MUPs.' -John Forester" - Helmet Head quoting 'The Great One'

  5. #5
    Non-Custom Member zeytoun's Avatar
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    I said no, because I do things a VC would never do. like ride on sidewalks.
    No judgement here, you have your own free will.

    I used to ride on sidewalks about 25% of the time to avoid certain traffic-related complications. But I was also always careful at intersections, and always considerate to pedestrians.

    Now I am in the habit of riding vehicularly, and it has become almost a taboo to even think about getting on a sidewallk. It's just more comfortable to my current style.
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by rando
    I said no, because I do things a VC would never do. like ride on sidewalks.
    I rode on a sidewalk yesterday on my way to go get water ice. It's the only way to get between two neighborhoods on the way there without going onto the less pleasant arterials (it was rush hour and I felt like taking the quieter, longer route). I also rode on a MUP as part of the same route. I did "take the lane" through the neighborhoods though, at about 10mph.

  7. #7
    pj7
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    I never voted.
    I am not a "Vehicular Cyclist" but I do ride "vehicularly" when it suits me and when necessary to do so.
    As far as the safer when you act and are treated like a slow-moving vehicle goes, I find I act more often than I'm treated. In a perfect society I would be treated like a slower moving vehicle when I act as though I am one, but reality is a different beast and I have to adapt to the circumstances.
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  8. #8
    your nightmare gal chipcom's Avatar
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    When I ride on the road I ride according to the rules and laws of the road - cept when I don't. Vehicular cycling is just one tool in the tool box, but in general, when on the road, I ride vehicularly.
    "Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey

  9. #9
    your nightmare gal chipcom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joejack951
    I rode on a sidewalk yesterday on my way to go get water ice. It's the only way to get between two neighborhoods on the way there without going onto the less pleasant arterials (it was rush hour and I felt like taking the quieter, longer route). I also rode on a MUP as part of the same route. I did "take the lane" through the neighborhoods though, at about 10mph.
    OMG JJ, you have the phobia!!!
    "Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey

  10. #10
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chipcom
    OMG JJ, you have the phobia!!!
    And I got a notion.

  11. #11
    your nightmare gal chipcom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
    And I got a notion.
    I'll see your notion and raise you a bottle of lotion...and some porn.
    "Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey

  12. #12
    Senior Member rando's Avatar
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    another reason I identified myself as NOT VC is that the words/abbreviation/ acronym seems to be accompanied by so much total crap, political posturing, misinformation, sophistic game playing and negativity I don't want to be a part of it. at all.

    I'll follow the rules of the road, usually.
    and sometimes not.

  13. #13
    pj7
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    Quote Originally Posted by rando
    another reason I identified myself as NOT VC is that the words/abbreviation/ acronym seems to be accompanied by so much total crap, political posturing, misinformation, sophistic game playing and negativity I don't want to be a part of it. at all.

    I'll follow the rules of the road, usually.
    and sometimes not.
    Right!
    Who needs a *another* label in order to ride your bike lawfully in the street and obey the rules. We already have one, it's called "law abiding citizen".
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by rando
    I'll follow the rules of the road, usually.
    and sometimes not.
    What rules of the road do you not follow? Why?

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by chipcom
    OMG JJ, you have the phobia!!!
    Not the phobia! I hope I didn't catch the gay or the HIV too

  16. #16
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chipcom
    I'll see your notion and raise you a bottle of lotion...and some porn.
    How 'bout a notion to rock (with your partner) in the motion of the ocean? Note: credit to James Brown "It's a Man's, Man's World" Live at the Apollo version.

  17. #17
    Dominatrikes sbhikes's Avatar
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    I guess I had to vote no because I don't subscribe to the Forester brand and I often do things that are more bicycular than vehicular. I do try to ride predictably and safely for the most part.
    ~Diane
    Recumbents: Lightning Thunderbolt, '06 Catrike Pocket. Upright: Trek Mountain Bike.
    8.5 mile commute. I like bike lanes.

  18. #18
    pj7
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    Quote Originally Posted by sbhikes
    I guess I had to vote no because I don't subscribe to the Forester brand and I often do things that are more bicycular than vehicular. I do try to ride predictably and safely for the most part.
    I bet you a wooden nickel someone is going to point out to you that a bicycle is a vehicle in the coming posts.
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  19. #19
    Senior Member rando's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joejack951
    What rules of the road do you not follow? Why?
    it depends!

    for one, not stopping for a stop sign if there's no one around.
    riding on deserted sidewalks.
    cutting across lots and through alleys.

  20. #20
    your nightmare gal chipcom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pj7
    I bet you a wooden nickel someone is going to point out to you that a bicycle is a vehicle in the coming posts.
    Diane, a bicycle is a vehicle in most states...but not your beloved California. Do I get a piece of that wooden nickle?
    "Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey

  21. #21
    Dominatrikes sbhikes's Avatar
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    You can have the wooden nickel, but only if you can pick it up without stopping and dismounting from your slow-moving vehicle.
    ~Diane
    Recumbents: Lightning Thunderbolt, '06 Catrike Pocket. Upright: Trek Mountain Bike.
    8.5 mile commute. I like bike lanes.

  22. #22
    Yabba-Dabba-Doo! AlmostTrick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rando
    another reason I identified myself as NOT VC is that the words/abbreviation/ acronym seems to be accompanied by so much total crap, political posturing, misinformation, sophistic game playing and negativity I don't want to be a part of it. at all.
    I vote yes, why not? The basic concepts make sense and do help cyclists fit in with traffic. No one I know personally really has a clue about what VC is, or that cyclists online argue about it like it's some kind of religion.
    Have Bike, Will Travel

  23. #23
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sbhikes
    You can have the wooden nickel, but only if you can pick it up without stopping and dismounting from your slow-moving vehicle.
    Hey, that reminds me of a trick I saw performed at a sideshow at the Kutztown, PA county fair over 40 years ago.

  24. #24
    JRA
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    Quote Originally Posted by chipcom
    Diane, a bicycle is a vehicle in most states...but not your beloved California. Do I get a piece of that wooden nickle?
    John Forester, that great champion of "cyclists fare best..." opposed attempting to change California law to define a bicycle as a vehicle. "Why?" you ask. Well, if a bicycle were defined as a vehicle, in the absense of changes to other laws to include exceptions for bicyclists, then bicyclists might actually be required to obey the same rules that drivers of other vehicles obey (oh, the horror of it!). That's right. Despite the fact that Foresterites have "Same Roads, Same Rules" as a slogan, the great Forester himself opposes actually requiring bicyclists to obey the same rules that drivers of other vehicles obey. Go figure. So much for the internal consistancy of VC-ism.

    "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds" - Emerson

    We sure don't need any more hobgoblins than we already have.
    "It may even be that motoring is more healthful than not motoring; death rates were certainly higher in the pre-motoring age."- John Forester
    "Laws cannot be properly understood as if written in plain English..."- Forester defending obfuscation.
    "Motorist propaganda, continued for sixty years, is what has put cyclists on sidewalks." - Forester, sociologist in his own mind
    "'There are no rules of the road on MUPs.' -John Forester" - Helmet Head quoting 'The Great One'

  25. #25
    JRA
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    Quote Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
    Hey, that reminds me of a trick I saw performed at a sideshow at the Kutztown, PA county fair over 40 years ago.
    I could do a lot of tricks 40 years ago.

    The early hobgoblin gets the wooden nickel (I actually have some wooden nickels-- and a bowl full of mills).
    "It may even be that motoring is more healthful than not motoring; death rates were certainly higher in the pre-motoring age."- John Forester
    "Laws cannot be properly understood as if written in plain English..."- Forester defending obfuscation.
    "Motorist propaganda, continued for sixty years, is what has put cyclists on sidewalks." - Forester, sociologist in his own mind
    "'There are no rules of the road on MUPs.' -John Forester" - Helmet Head quoting 'The Great One'

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