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  1. #1
    Senior Member John C. Ratliff's Avatar
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    Why are there no women advocating VC?

    Is it just me, or is the VC message consistently being espoused only be men? In other words, is this concept driven as much be testosterone as by reason? Is there some kind of sexism at play here? From what I can see, this part of the A&S forum is made up of about six men who are constantly and vocally saying that the only way to cycle "competently" is if you use the VC concepts. If there are women who advocate for VC, then I would like very much to hear from them. We need that perspective, and I have yet to hear it.

    John
    John Ratliff

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    Senior Member Ziemas's Avatar
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    Maybe because they are smart enough not to get into a pointless pissing match with extremely pedantic people.

  3. #3
    Long haired freak. wethepeople's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziemas
    Maybe because they are smart enough not to get into a pointless pissing match with extremely pedantic people.
    I read this and laughed, it could not have been summed up any better.

    "the bus came by and I got on, that's when it all began...there was Cowboy Neal at the wheel of a bus to never-ever land."


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    Cycle Year Round CB HI's Avatar
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    Hawaii Bicycling League BikeEd program which teaches VC to 4th graders has had female program directors, female instructors and 2 of the 3 HBL Executive Directors since the start of the program have been females.

    Are you implying that these women are suffering from too much testosterone?

  5. #5
    pj7
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    His statement looked to me like a question, not an implication of any sorts.
    By the way, my wife has PCOS, which gives her a testosterone level so high that she would be accused of doping if she ever entered sports and she is about as petite and femenine as a belle. So it is possible for those women to have "too much testosterone".
    ...I'm just saying.
    I am a sig Virus. Please put me in your sig so that I can continue to replicate.

  6. #6
    Spelling Snob Hobartlemagne's Avatar
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    It may be an aggression thing. You can't be passive in VC riding. Generally speaking, men are more agressive than women- also more prone to risk taking.

    The first rule of flats is You don't talk about flats!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziemas
    Maybe because they are smart enough not to get into a pointless pissing match with extremely pedantic people.
    Ha Ha Ha- very funny!

    But take heart, there are plenty of women who ride VC. I'm one of them!

  8. #8
    Senior Member Jolt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziemas
    Maybe because they are smart enough not to get into a pointless pissing match with extremely pedantic people.
    Yeah, we tend to be less prone to getting into urination competitions! Another possible part of the reason for your observations is that there are fewer female than male cyclists to begin with.
    The rhythm is gonna get you...and if it's v-tach or v-fib you're in for a shock!

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hobartlemagne
    It may be an aggression thing. You can't be passive in VC riding. Generally speaking, men are more agressive than women- also more prone to risk taking.
    If you think riding "VC" is about being aggressive and taking risks then you should read up a little more.

  10. #10
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John C. Ratliff
    Is it just me, or is the VC message consistently being espoused only be men? In other words, is this concept driven as much be testosterone as by reason? Is there some kind of sexism at play here?
    Cycling in some manner that could be described as "Vehicular" and espousing a "VC Message" are two different and distinct behaviors and the former is not necessarily related to the later. The cycling in a manner that could be described as vehicular is not necessarily gender related, I suspect the espousing (AKA obnoxious ranting and browbeating) is; witness the efforts by the exclusively male VC™ proselytizers on BF and elsewhere on the Internet.

    Apparently the "VC Message" as espoused by the VC™ gurus, apostles, and disciples is wrapped up in the excess baggage of Forester Brand political, social, psychological Sophistry which appeals to a certain type of male.

  11. #11
    Dominatrikes sbhikes's Avatar
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    I find that some of the men who espouse and proselytize VC™ are sexist in the most obvious kind of way. I feel that others are simply blind to seeing things from any other perspective than one shaped by experiences of competition, whether that comes from sports, war, or corporate America.
    ~Diane
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    8.5 mile commute. I like bike lanes.

  12. #12
    Faster but still slow slowandsteady's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by Ziemas
    Maybe because they are smart enough not to get into a pointless pissing match with extremely pedantic people.

    +1
    "Ride lots." -- Eddy Merckx

  13. #13
    Faster but still slow slowandsteady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jolt
    Yeah, we tend to be less prone to getting into urination competitions! Another possible part of the reason for your observations is that there are fewer female than male cyclists to begin with.

    on these boards perhaps...But I see plenty of women cyclists.
    "Ride lots." -- Eddy Merckx

  14. #14
    Banned. Helmet Head's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John C. Ratliff
    Is it just me, or is the VC message consistently being espoused only be men? In other words, is this concept driven as much be testosterone as by reason? Is there some kind of sexism at play here? From what I can see, this part of the A&S forum is made up of about six men who are constantly and vocally saying that the only way to cycle "competently" is if you use the VC concepts. If there are women who advocate for VC, then I would like very much to hear from them. We need that perspective, and I have yet to hear it.

    John
    For who knows what reason (cultural? genetic?) "early adopters" of new things often tend to be men. Relative to the cultural norms we all grew up with, in the U.S., riding a bicycle vehicularly in traffic is, for all intents and purposes, a "new thing".

    However, there are usually exceptions, and VC is no exception to having exceptions. This website is solely owned, designed and operated by a woman, Lauren Cooper:

    http://www.bicyclinglife.com/Practic...ng/VCIntro.htm

    Also, on this forum, I don't know if user "Chephy" would identify herself as a vehicular cyclist much less a VC advocate, but I get the impression that she thinks and rides vehicularly.

  15. #15
    Sumanitu taka owaci LittleBigMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Ratliff
    Why are there no women advocating VC?
    John, I'm not sure that's an accurate assumption. I remember quite well seeing a female cycling instructor with a group of young cyclists (approx. age 12) riding through a downtown Atlanta neighborhood. (If she wasn't an instructor, she seemed to be using the methods.)
    No worries

  16. #16
    your nightmare gal chipcom's Avatar
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    OH, OH, I know the answer to this one...I heard it in a song...
    Cuz girls just wanna have fun!
    (cept Ann Coulter...but we are not convinced that she's a girl and suspect that she may actually be HH)
    "Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey

  17. #17
    Dog is my co-pilot 2manybikes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chipcom
    OH, OH, I know the answer to this one...I heard it in a song...
    Cuz girls just wanna have fun!
    (cept Ann Coulter...but we are not convinced that she's a girl and suspect that she may actually be HH)







    Have some of the Girls Gone Wild?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  18. #18
    Sumanitu taka owaci LittleBigMan's Avatar
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    I've seen plenty of female cyclists on the road, riding vehicularly.

    But I wonder if some females don't cycle commute because they are concerned about other forms of safety aside from traffic itself, like *******.
    No worries

  19. #19
    Senior Member Buglady's Avatar
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    I think we just get out and do it... I have learned quite a lot from the bike foums and have started using VC principles in several parts of my commute. I don't enjoy riding on heavily trafficked roads but I do feel competent to do so now. Biggest thing I learned was the sidewalk safety lie.

    I taught my Girl Guide group the basics of taking the lane, obeying traffic signals, and being visible.

  20. #20
    Senior Member Jolt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slowandsteady
    on these boards perhaps...But I see plenty of women cyclists.
    Maybe it's somewhat of a regional thing, too. I have yet to see another female cyclist out on the roads where I ride. It's rather surprising, really.
    The rhythm is gonna get you...and if it's v-tach or v-fib you're in for a shock!

  21. #21
    Member TBeri's Avatar
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    Ahem....
    I am a female cyclist and have taken the League of American Bicyclists course "Road One" (a course in how to ride as a legal vehicle in urban settings), from a female instructor (co-instructor) no less. I use the concept of vehicular cycling on every outing, as I don't have a non-urban area in which to ride.
    As for "espousing the message", personally, haven't been on BF in over a year...but even then I'd prefer to ride in a safe and vehicular manner than talk about it.
    But, I came to this thread intrigued and in hopes that there would be some new/good advice. We are dealing with some strange legislative issues in my home state that concern bicycles as vehicles and I'm trying to get better informed. Maybe I'll become more vocal as a result. Meanwhile, I'm glad ya'll are here talking about VC and other A&S issues. Everyday I see folks on bikes not obeying the vehicle laws of the state, and endangering not just themselves, but by confusing the motorized-vehicle public, endagering me too!

    Thanks,
    TBeri

  22. #22
    don't be so angry clancy98's Avatar
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    cause chicks dig fast cars? err, wait..
    Irregardless is not a word, and you do not sound more intelligent using it.

  23. #23
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LittleBigMan
    I've seen plenty of female cyclists on the road, riding vehicularly.

    But I wonder if some females don't cycle commute because they are concerned about other forms of safety aside from traffic itself, like *******.
    So what is the subject/your question? Women cyclists in general or women who espouse/advocate the VC message? Tain't the same thing at all.

  24. #24
    Senior Member sggoodri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TBeri
    Ahem....
    I am a female cyclist and have taken the League of American Bicyclists course "Road One" (a course in how to ride as a legal vehicle in urban settings), from a female instructor (co-instructor) no less. I use the concept of vehicular cycling on every outing, as I don't have a non-urban area in which to ride.
    As for "espousing the message", personally, haven't been on BF in over a year...but even then I'd prefer to ride in a safe and vehicular manner than talk about it.
    But, I came to this thread intrigued and in hopes that there would be some new/good advice. We are dealing with some strange legislative issues in my home state that concern bicycles as vehicles and I'm trying to get better informed. Maybe I'll become more vocal as a result. Meanwhile, I'm glad ya'll are here talking about VC and other A&S issues. Everyday I see folks on bikes not obeying the vehicle laws of the state, and endangering not just themselves, but by confusing the motorized-vehicle public, endagering me too!

    Thanks,
    TBeri
    Welcome, TBeri!

    Of the two local League Cycling Instructors I know who have taught LAB classes here in the Raleigh-Durham area, one is a woman. At my recent LCI seminar in Spartanburg, SC, six women attended to become LCIs.

    The number of women actively supporting vehicular cycling in these parts appears in line with the number of women who are frequent cyclists.

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    Talking

    Quote Originally Posted by Ziemas
    Maybe because they are smart enough not to get into a pointless pissing match with extremely pedantic people.
    This thread was won from the beginning....

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