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Vehicular Cycling (VC) No other subject has polarized the A&S members like VC has. Here's a place to share, debate, and educate.

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Old 05-11-07, 12:50 AM   #1
John C. Ratliff
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Why are there no women advocating VC?

Is it just me, or is the VC message consistently being espoused only be men? In other words, is this concept driven as much be testosterone as by reason? Is there some kind of sexism at play here? From what I can see, this part of the A&S forum is made up of about six men who are constantly and vocally saying that the only way to cycle "competently" is if you use the VC concepts. If there are women who advocate for VC, then I would like very much to hear from them. We need that perspective, and I have yet to hear it.

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Old 05-11-07, 12:57 AM   #2
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Maybe because they are smart enough not to get into a pointless pissing match with extremely pedantic people.
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Old 05-11-07, 01:09 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziemas
Maybe because they are smart enough not to get into a pointless pissing match with extremely pedantic people.
I read this and laughed, it could not have been summed up any better.
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Old 05-11-07, 01:22 AM   #4
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Hawaii Bicycling League BikeEd program which teaches VC to 4th graders has had female program directors, female instructors and 2 of the 3 HBL Executive Directors since the start of the program have been females.

Are you implying that these women are suffering from too much testosterone?
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Old 05-11-07, 02:27 AM   #5
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His statement looked to me like a question, not an implication of any sorts.
By the way, my wife has PCOS, which gives her a testosterone level so high that she would be accused of doping if she ever entered sports and she is about as petite and femenine as a belle. So it is possible for those women to have "too much testosterone".
...I'm just saying.
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Old 05-11-07, 05:08 AM   #6
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It may be an aggression thing. You can't be passive in VC riding. Generally speaking, men are more agressive than women- also more prone to risk taking.
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Old 05-11-07, 06:08 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Ziemas
Maybe because they are smart enough not to get into a pointless pissing match with extremely pedantic people.
Ha Ha Ha- very funny!

But take heart, there are plenty of women who ride VC. I'm one of them!
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Old 05-11-07, 06:31 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziemas
Maybe because they are smart enough not to get into a pointless pissing match with extremely pedantic people.
Yeah, we tend to be less prone to getting into urination competitions! Another possible part of the reason for your observations is that there are fewer female than male cyclists to begin with.
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Old 05-11-07, 06:36 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hobartlemagne
It may be an aggression thing. You can't be passive in VC riding. Generally speaking, men are more agressive than women- also more prone to risk taking.
If you think riding "VC" is about being aggressive and taking risks then you should read up a little more.
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Old 05-11-07, 06:46 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John C. Ratliff
Is it just me, or is the VC message consistently being espoused only be men? In other words, is this concept driven as much be testosterone as by reason? Is there some kind of sexism at play here?
Cycling in some manner that could be described as "Vehicular" and espousing a "VC Message" are two different and distinct behaviors and the former is not necessarily related to the later. The cycling in a manner that could be described as vehicular is not necessarily gender related, I suspect the espousing (AKA obnoxious ranting and browbeating) is; witness the efforts by the exclusively male VC™ proselytizers on BF and elsewhere on the Internet.

Apparently the "VC Message" as espoused by the VC™ gurus, apostles, and disciples is wrapped up in the excess baggage of Forester Brand political, social, psychological Sophistry which appeals to a certain type of male.
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Old 05-11-07, 08:02 AM   #11
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I find that some of the men who espouse and proselytize VC™ are sexist in the most obvious kind of way. I feel that others are simply blind to seeing things from any other perspective than one shaped by experiences of competition, whether that comes from sports, war, or corporate America.
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Old 05-11-07, 08:10 AM   #12
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Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziemas
Maybe because they are smart enough not to get into a pointless pissing match with extremely pedantic people.

+1
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Old 05-11-07, 08:11 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Jolt
Yeah, we tend to be less prone to getting into urination competitions! Another possible part of the reason for your observations is that there are fewer female than male cyclists to begin with.

on these boards perhaps...But I see plenty of women cyclists.
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Old 05-11-07, 08:29 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John C. Ratliff
Is it just me, or is the VC message consistently being espoused only be men? In other words, is this concept driven as much be testosterone as by reason? Is there some kind of sexism at play here? From what I can see, this part of the A&S forum is made up of about six men who are constantly and vocally saying that the only way to cycle "competently" is if you use the VC concepts. If there are women who advocate for VC, then I would like very much to hear from them. We need that perspective, and I have yet to hear it.

John
For who knows what reason (cultural? genetic?) "early adopters" of new things often tend to be men. Relative to the cultural norms we all grew up with, in the U.S., riding a bicycle vehicularly in traffic is, for all intents and purposes, a "new thing".

However, there are usually exceptions, and VC is no exception to having exceptions. This website is solely owned, designed and operated by a woman, Lauren Cooper:

http://www.bicyclinglife.com/Practic...ng/VCIntro.htm

Also, on this forum, I don't know if user "Chephy" would identify herself as a vehicular cyclist much less a VC advocate, but I get the impression that she thinks and rides vehicularly.
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Old 05-11-07, 08:38 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Ratliff
Why are there no women advocating VC?
John, I'm not sure that's an accurate assumption. I remember quite well seeing a female cycling instructor with a group of young cyclists (approx. age 12) riding through a downtown Atlanta neighborhood. (If she wasn't an instructor, she seemed to be using the methods.)
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Old 05-11-07, 08:52 AM   #16
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OH, OH, I know the answer to this one...I heard it in a song...
Cuz girls just wanna have fun!
(cept Ann Coulter...but we are not convinced that she's a girl and suspect that she may actually be HH)
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Old 05-11-07, 09:09 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by chipcom
OH, OH, I know the answer to this one...I heard it in a song...
Cuz girls just wanna have fun!
(cept Ann Coulter...but we are not convinced that she's a girl and suspect that she may actually be HH)







Have some of the Girls Gone Wild?
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Old 05-11-07, 10:31 AM   #18
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I've seen plenty of female cyclists on the road, riding vehicularly.

But I wonder if some females don't cycle commute because they are concerned about other forms of safety aside from traffic itself, like *******.
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Old 05-11-07, 10:36 AM   #19
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I think we just get out and do it... I have learned quite a lot from the bike foums and have started using VC principles in several parts of my commute. I don't enjoy riding on heavily trafficked roads but I do feel competent to do so now. Biggest thing I learned was the sidewalk safety lie.

I taught my Girl Guide group the basics of taking the lane, obeying traffic signals, and being visible.
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Old 05-11-07, 10:41 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slowandsteady
on these boards perhaps...But I see plenty of women cyclists.
Maybe it's somewhat of a regional thing, too. I have yet to see another female cyclist out on the roads where I ride. It's rather surprising, really.
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Old 05-11-07, 11:16 AM   #21
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Ahem....
I am a female cyclist and have taken the League of American Bicyclists course "Road One" (a course in how to ride as a legal vehicle in urban settings), from a female instructor (co-instructor) no less. I use the concept of vehicular cycling on every outing, as I don't have a non-urban area in which to ride.
As for "espousing the message", personally, haven't been on BF in over a year...but even then I'd prefer to ride in a safe and vehicular manner than talk about it.
But, I came to this thread intrigued and in hopes that there would be some new/good advice. We are dealing with some strange legislative issues in my home state that concern bicycles as vehicles and I'm trying to get better informed. Maybe I'll become more vocal as a result. Meanwhile, I'm glad ya'll are here talking about VC and other A&S issues. Everyday I see folks on bikes not obeying the vehicle laws of the state, and endangering not just themselves, but by confusing the motorized-vehicle public, endagering me too!

Thanks,
TBeri
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Old 05-11-07, 11:19 AM   #22
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cause chicks dig fast cars? err, wait..
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Old 05-11-07, 11:23 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleBigMan
I've seen plenty of female cyclists on the road, riding vehicularly.

But I wonder if some females don't cycle commute because they are concerned about other forms of safety aside from traffic itself, like *******.
So what is the subject/your question? Women cyclists in general or women who espouse/advocate the VC message? Tain't the same thing at all.
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Old 05-11-07, 12:38 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TBeri
Ahem....
I am a female cyclist and have taken the League of American Bicyclists course "Road One" (a course in how to ride as a legal vehicle in urban settings), from a female instructor (co-instructor) no less. I use the concept of vehicular cycling on every outing, as I don't have a non-urban area in which to ride.
As for "espousing the message", personally, haven't been on BF in over a year...but even then I'd prefer to ride in a safe and vehicular manner than talk about it.
But, I came to this thread intrigued and in hopes that there would be some new/good advice. We are dealing with some strange legislative issues in my home state that concern bicycles as vehicles and I'm trying to get better informed. Maybe I'll become more vocal as a result. Meanwhile, I'm glad ya'll are here talking about VC and other A&S issues. Everyday I see folks on bikes not obeying the vehicle laws of the state, and endangering not just themselves, but by confusing the motorized-vehicle public, endagering me too!

Thanks,
TBeri
Welcome, TBeri!

Of the two local League Cycling Instructors I know who have taught LAB classes here in the Raleigh-Durham area, one is a woman. At my recent LCI seminar in Spartanburg, SC, six women attended to become LCIs.

The number of women actively supporting vehicular cycling in these parts appears in line with the number of women who are frequent cyclists.
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Old 05-11-07, 01:36 PM   #25
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Talking

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Originally Posted by Ziemas
Maybe because they are smart enough not to get into a pointless pissing match with extremely pedantic people.
This thread was won from the beginning....
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