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Vehicular Cycling (VC) No other subject has polarized the A&S members like VC has. Here's a place to share, debate, and educate.

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Old 05-22-07, 01:41 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by JohnBrooking
Being a philosophy minor as an undergrad, I can appreciate Hiles' attempt here. All philosophy students realize pretty early on that it's not going to ultimately answer any questions, only clarify them. But it is helpful to do so, and I think Hiles has for this issue.
Right, which is why I recommend it.

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BTW, I don't get the reference to JRA, ...
Of all the VC-contrarians on this forum, JRA seems to have the best understanding of it (though there was one notable exception, the first I ever noticed, in the last week or so, though I can't remember offhand exactly what it was; if I find or remember what it was, I'll add an edit here).
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Old 05-22-07, 01:45 PM   #27
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Old 05-22-07, 02:38 PM   #28
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Lest there be any misunderstanding (too late, I suppose), I guess JRA is someone's username here? I don't recognize it, so I thought HH was referring to someone well-known by initial. And I also didn't mean to compare him(?) to a flat-earther, only that HH's comparison reminded me of that - an articulate spokeperson for a viewpoint often not well articulated. (Okay, I probably just shouldn't have said anything.)
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Old 05-22-07, 02:44 PM   #29
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Yes, JRA is a member here.
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Old 05-22-07, 04:14 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by JohnBrooking
BTW, I don't get the reference to JRA...
HH likes to throw names around to see if anyone responds. Perhaps he just wants me to post more since I'm such a big fan of his nutcase ideas, his zealotry and the fear-mongering and bullying tactics he uses to promote his ridiculous political agenda.
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Old 05-22-07, 04:15 PM   #31
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Forester's critique of Hiles' paper is a must read:

An Apologist for Bike Lanes Gets It All Wrong

It's typical Forester.
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There are only two reasonable explanations for these errors: phobia or mendacity, otherwise described as unconscious lying or conscious lying. In the first case, Hiles is so imbued with the cyclist-inferiority phobia that this forces him to interpret everything he observes or reads according to its precepts; that is the only way that he can understand the cycling world.
Yada, yada, yada.

If anyone wants to know why there is so much venum in the bike lane debate, why rational discussion is nearly impossible, why there is so little chance of a compromise, and why VC-ism is such a laughingstock among vehicular cyclists, they need not look much further than the attitude and name-calling that typify and have come to define John Forester.

John Forester, has there ever been anyone who has talked about cycling and failed to sing your praises that you didn't call a liar?

BTW, I've read Hiles' paper several times over the years. It's better than anything John Forester has written on the subject -- not that that is a high standard.

Last edited by JRA; 05-22-07 at 08:33 PM.
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Old 05-22-07, 04:35 PM   #32
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Here's a book that might be helpful in understanding VC-ism:

Robert Lifton, Thought Reform & the Psychology of Totalism.

Any good book or article on cultism and charismatic leaders would be helpfull in understanding both Forester and his followers - not that VC-ism could rightly be called a cult-- many of the thought control tactics are absent although Forester does have a cult-like following that is a little scary at times. Some of the characteristics of cults are present: groupthink and groupspeak, to name a couple.

Forester also has an uncanny ability to inspire animosity , which he is always quick to attribute to cyclist inferiority phobia or some other mental condition (using a tactic characteristic of cult leaders).

Last edited by JRA; 05-22-07 at 09:31 PM.
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Old 05-22-07, 07:56 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by JRA
HH likes to throw names around to see if anyone responds. Perhaps he just wants me to post more since I'm such a big fan of his nutcase ideas, his zealotry and the fear-mongering and bullying tactics he uses to promote his ridiculous political agenda.
Uh-Oh, now you done it! No more comments from HH about your brilliance, understanding or intelligent observations.

But not to worry, I'll give you an electronic High Five for this right on the money description.
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Old 05-22-07, 09:09 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by randya
Ask you congressman how that's done.
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