Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Page 6 of 24 FirstFirst ... 4567816 ... LastLast
Results 126 to 150 of 576
  1. #126
    Non-Custom Member zeytoun's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    My Bikes
    1975-1980 SR road bike
    Posts
    1,613
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Semantic sophistry alert. You got me

    Sorry, I should have said any definition excluding any rules that are contradictory to the basic principles of vehicular operation.
    How is this semantic sophistry?
    I'm just trying to bring your ideas to the level of actual science, which requires more rigid levels of logic and communication.

    So, if you are not referring to the law, per se, but rather to the basic vehicular principles, combined with defensive driving, we could use the existence of the "VC rules" as scientific evidence for the advocacy of VC.
    I am a mutated sig Virus. Please put me in your sig so that I can continue to replicate and mutate, blah!.

  2. #127
    Senior Member Brian Ratliff's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Near Portland, OR
    My Bikes
    Three road bikes. Two track bikes.
    Posts
    9,417
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I belive that, according to the MUPCD (sp?), a dotted line is not a bike lane line (or any other lane line), it is merely a lane line leader. The bike lane does, it seems, disappear for a time before reappearing to the left of the RTOL.
    Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
    "If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter

  3. #128
    Senior Member John C. Ratliff's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Beaverton, Oregon
    My Bikes
    Rans Stratus, Trek 1420, Rivendell Rambouillet
    Posts
    1,905
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Helmet Head
    John R, I never said that scientific studies that do not provide reasons to advocate for bike lanes do not exist. In fact, I'm sure they do, as you are proving.
    Huh???

    The way you word that makes it pretty meaningless. That's the first use of a triple-negative that I've ever seen in one sentence. Good job. If I read this right, you have said that scientific studies do exist, that they do not provide reasons to advocate for bike lanes and so do not exist. No wait, you said that you never said scientific studies do not exist, but that they do not providen reasons for advocating bike lanes? The more I read that, the more confused I get. Mind clarifying?

    John
    John Ratliff

  4. #129
    genec genec's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    san diego
    My Bikes
    custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2
    Posts
    22,521
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Seems to me this issue:
    Unlike the fragmented cycling facilities in the United States, the bike paths and lanes in The Netherlands and Germany form a truly integrated, coordinated network covering both rural and urban areas. Dutch and German bikeway systems serve practical destinations for everyday travel, not just recreational attractions, as most bike paths in the United States.
    From the study cited in post #129... this is the biggest reason for failure of BL in the US.

    A new bike map just came out for my city... on that map I notice that in my area... a rather large section of the central region of the city, there are no bike lanes that run east and west... not a single one... I can't go east and west according to that map... there are only "recommended routes..." the biggest of which is the main street with parked cars along each side where most cyclists typically ride on the sidewalk. (I don't) Even the north south route is discontinuous, yet cyclists treat the marked off parking areas on the side of the road as a bike lane, as they ride past my block. Cars get a parking lane... but bikes... nothing.

    While the local coalition has done a nice job documenting what they could, if it were a hiway map for motorists... they would beat their heads against the steering wheel trying to get from point A to point B... The city just does not support cycle transit... unless you consider "recommended routes... " the latter often lined with parked cars.

  5. #130
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Wilmington, DE
    My Bikes
    2003 Specialized Hardrock, 2004 LOOK KG386i, 2005 Iron Horse Warrior Expert, 2009 Pedal Force CX1
    Posts
    8,772
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by zeytoun
    Yes, I'm sorry, they're dashed, so technically the bike lane continues. I guess I just see them as ended since they are dashed, the mandatory bike lane law is now void, and cars can legally enter the space. In addition to the fact that your fear of "striping". And the striping ends. But I will not be a semantic prig. Technically, they continue, I stand corrected.
    Ok so they dash the bike lane. Now, for a regular traffic lane that was intended to be straight only (which a traffic lane to the left of a bike lane would be) you'd have arrows showing this and arrows in the outside lane showing it to be straight and right. Why is proper destination positioning never communicated with bike lanes?

    For minor intersections, the bike lane stripes don't sound as if they are ever dashed yet motor vehicles are allowed, and required, to enter them there. Why aren't minor intersections treated the same way as major intersections? The mandatory bike lane law does not apply at minor intersections either.

    Quote Originally Posted by zeytoun
    I guess, in a big picture sense, I would rather see something like regular ads on TV explaining to viewers how and why a cyclist would leave the right side of the road (even with a bike lane) then have bike lanes erased on arterials. On 25mph streets, yes, let's spray paint 'em all black.
    Don't you think you'd reach more of the people you want to reach by simply leaving the side of the road as necessary while cycling? The same people who are incapable of understanding why a cyclist would leave the side of the road are probably the same people who will reason in their minds that the pile of debris you just avoided was practicable to ride through. Of course, if we could reach the vast majority of motorists through PSA's and that vast majority was also persuaded by these PSA's, I'd be willing to be more supportive of the effort. But, advertising to reach such a high percentage of the population is prohibitively expensive and doesn't guarantee that the guy who you need to yield to you so that you can leave the side of the road has seen the PSA. Signalling, getting his attention and moving right let's the guy know that you need to leave the side of road.

    Quote Originally Posted by zeytoun
    Of course, that's just my opinion, and I get more excited about advocacy in the areas where I see common ground. I'm happier withholding my personal controversial advocacy ideas, while there is still much common advocacy to be done.
    I get very excited about common ground. I want more safe cyclists on the road. I want to be able to use certain roads with less passing friction. I would like more local uninterupted bike paths in their own right of way (impossible though due to the density of my area). I would like for all motorists to treat me as a vehicle driver, although this is way down on my list as it wouldn't make for a big change in my every day cycling.

  6. #131
    Senior Member John C. Ratliff's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Beaverton, Oregon
    My Bikes
    Rans Stratus, Trek 1420, Rivendell Rambouillet
    Posts
    1,905
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Bridge Pedal Traffic Jam

    We proved that there can be too many bicyclists on the road at once, contrary to what HH and JF have said previously. If you get a certain number of anything, as Brian said earlier, things will slow down. Here, during the Providence Bridge Pedal in Portland, Oregon in 2005, the organizers made a few mistakes, and we had a traffic jam of bicycles. Literally, we all had to stop and walk. That could happen if many, many more people began bicycling on roads, without any infrastructure to accomodate them. Then you would see some hopping mad motor vehicle drivers, because they probably were filling their tanks with $5.00/gallon gasoline to get that many people on the road. But right now, in Portland, the price for regular gasoline just passed $3.40/gallon.

    John
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by John C. Ratliff; 05-15-07 at 09:57 PM. Reason: Provide larger photos
    John Ratliff

  7. #132
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    4,069
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by John C. Ratliff
    I'm not answering questions here, just posting studies at this point. You guys (HH and JF) are saying that there's nothing out there, and ask us to find it. You are not doing any work here at all. Here's another:

    Making Walking and Cycling Safer: Lessons from Europe
    John Pucher and Lewis Dijkstra
    Department of Urban Planning
    Rutgers University—Bloustein School
    33 Livingston Avenue, Suite 302
    New Brunswick, New Jersey 08901—1900
    Phone: (732) 932-3822, ext. 722; Fax: (732) 932-2253
    Email: pucher@rci.rutgers.edu; lewis.dijkstra@bigfoot.com
    February 2000
    This article is scheduled for publication in Transportation Quarterly, Vol. 54, No. 3, summer
    2000. Please use that citation in any references to this pre-print version of the paper. This
    preprint version does not contain the ten photographs in the printed article; also, page numbers
    will vary between this version and the final, printed version in the summer 2000 TQ issue

    Here is a quote from that study:



    Now, HH & JF, you can discount the studies if you wish (I think I'm up to four posted now, with posts of others that are underway). But you cannot say that they don't exist, as HH has stated. If everything you've read about him and his studies "is not pretty," I would suggest that you read the actual studies before making a judgement. They are available here:

    http://www.vtpi.org/documents/walking.php

    John
    John R, There are dozens, probably hundreds of studies that advocate bikeways; God knows I have read enough of them. I reviewed Pucher and Dijkstra years ago, and demolished it. Indeed, it was my criticism of that paper, and Pucher's immoderate reply, that caused the editors of Transportation Quarterly to publish my paper, The Bicycle Transportation Controversy, in Spring 2001, Vol 55 Number 2, pgs 7-17.

    Do you read any of these papers that you are recommending for us? I asked rather specifically for papers that provided scientific evidence favoring bikeways over vehicular cycling, and the reasons presented by the member of this group as to why he thinks that the evidence is demonstrative. P phrased my version of HH's request specifically to get at our subject of discussion, rather than the numerous papers that do not present facts and reasons relevant to our discussion.

    I repeat, I know of no such papers. The irrelevant or defective papers that exist are just plain propaganda for the superstition. What we ask of you bikeway advocates is whether there are papers with valid data and logic written by people with expert knowledge of the subject, papers that you advocates would stand behind.

  8. #133
    totally louche Bekologist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    A land that time forgot
    My Bikes
    the ever shifting stable loaded with comfortable road bikes and city and winter bikes
    Posts
    18,012
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Anecdotally, ALL the bonafide traffic engineers I've encountered- by BONAFIDE I mean, emphatically NOT Mossy John F;

    ALL the traffic engineers I've spoken with, listened to or seen presentations from KNOW and UNDERSTAND the maxim about cycling specific infrastructure-

    BUILD IT, AND THEY WILL RIDE


    It's so glaringly apparant I cannot believe the naysayers try to insist otherwise.

    cities across the globe encourage bicycling via bicycling infrastructure.
    "Evidence, anecdote and methodology all support planning for roadway bike traffic."

  9. #134
    Senior Member Brian Ratliff's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Near Portland, OR
    My Bikes
    Three road bikes. Two track bikes.
    Posts
    9,417
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Umm. Mr. Forester. I'm not seeing any refutation of anything in your TQ article. It is simply a summery of the basic VC argument we've heard many times over. Has your refutation been published? Was it peer reviewed?

    I cannot even find "Transporation Quarterly". Is it a peer reviewed journal? I found a response from the study's author, which was published two issues later, but you make it seem like your refutation happened before your article was published. I cannot even find this demolishment on your website. Could you post it here?
    Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
    "If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter

  10. #135
    Senior Member Brian Ratliff's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Near Portland, OR
    My Bikes
    Three road bikes. Two track bikes.
    Posts
    9,417
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    How was the refutation based? The study was very honest in not drawing hard conclusions. It was basically a list of trends in different areas. I admit I only skimmed through it though. Does Mr. Forester contend that their numbers are wrong?
    Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
    "If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter

  11. #136
    Banned. Helmet Head's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    San Diego
    Posts
    13,075
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by John C. Ratliff
    Quote Originally Posted by Helmet Head
    I never said that scientific studies that do not provide reasons to advocate for bike lanes do not exist. In fact, I'm sure they do, as you are proving.
    Huh???

    The way you word that makes it pretty meaningless. That's the first use of a triple-negative that I've ever seen in one sentence. Good job. If I read this right, you have said that scientific studies do exist, that they do not provide reasons to advocate for bike lanes and so do not exist. No wait, you said that you never said scientific studies do not exist, but that they do not providen reasons for advocating bike lanes? The more I read that, the more confused I get. Mind clarifying?

    John
    John, you claimed: "Now, HH & JF, you can discount the studies if you wish ... But you cannot say that they don't exist, as HH has stated."

    You claimed that I have stated "the studies" don't exist. Then you cited some studies that do not provide reasons to advocate for bike lanes. Yet I never said such studies do not exist... Hence:

    I never said that scientific studies that do not provide reasons to advocate for bike lanes do not exist.

    Now, I did say that I believed studies that do provide reasons reasons to advocate for bike lanes do not exist. And you have not cited such studies, so you have not swayed my belief.

  12. #137
    totally louche Bekologist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    A land that time forgot
    My Bikes
    the ever shifting stable loaded with comfortable road bikes and city and winter bikes
    Posts
    18,012
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by John Forester
    There are dozens, probably hundreds of studies that advocate bikeways.... papers that provided scientific evidence....
    well, there we go then! Yep, likely hundreds of studies that advocate bicycle infrastructure. the SCIENCE of bike infrastructure, versus mossy johns' emotionally ******** disapproval of cycling infrastructure.
    "Evidence, anecdote and methodology all support planning for roadway bike traffic."

  13. #138
    Banned. Helmet Head's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    San Diego
    Posts
    13,075
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Pete Fagerlin
    You suck at communicating. It's that simple.

    The fact that you whine about people questioning you based upon your horrid semantics is just icing on the cake of your communications mediocrity.
    Thanks, that's very helpful. Feel better now?

  14. #139
    Banned. Helmet Head's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    San Diego
    Posts
    13,075
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by genec
    Seems to me this issue:

    From the study cited in post #129... this is the biggest reason for failure of BL in the US.

    A new bike map just came out for my city... on that map I notice that in my area... a rather large section of the central region of the city, there are no bike lanes that run east and west... not a single one... I can't go east and west according to that map... there are only "recommended routes..." the biggest of which is the main street with parked cars along each side where most cyclists typically ride on the sidewalk. (I don't) Even the north south route is discontinuous, yet cyclists treat the marked off parking areas on the side of the road as a bike lane, as they ride past my block. Cars get a parking lane... but bikes... nothing.

    While the local coalition has done a nice job documenting what they could, if it were a hiway map for motorists... they would beat their heads against the steering wheel trying to get from point A to point B... The city just does not support cycle transit... unless you consider "recommended routes... " the latter often lined with parked cars.
    Between you and me and the 3 other people reading this thread, that map is a joke. It implies that the only routes for cycling are along Class 1, 2 or 3 bikeways. Remember who creates the map: a government agency comprised of people whose livelihood depends on the creation... Class 1, 2 and 3 bikeways. Class 1 bikeways - bike paths - okay, they often serve a useful function. But Class 2 -- bike lanes? Give me a break. And class 3, designating a normal street as a "bike route"? What the heck is that? Every street is a bike route!. Do you really need metal green signs on posts that say "BIKE ROUTE" to ride on a street? Can you see that the emperor has no clothes? (and that the bikeway map has no purpose?)

    You say bikes get nothing? I say cyclists get the whole lane!

    (3) When reasonably necessary to avoid conditions (including, but not limited to, fixed or moving objects, vehicles, bicycles, pedestrians, animals, surface hazards, or substandard width lanes) that make it unsafe to continue along the right-hand curb or edge, subject to the provisions of Section 21656. For purposes of this section, a "substandard width lane" is a lane that is too narrow for a bicycle and a vehicle to travel safely side by side within the lane.


    http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc21202.htm

  15. #140
    Senior Member John C. Ratliff's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Beaverton, Oregon
    My Bikes
    Rans Stratus, Trek 1420, Rivendell Rambouillet
    Posts
    1,905
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Helmet Head
    Exactly. 3 pages and almost 70 posts, and still nuthin'. Nada. Zippo. Nothing except the typical semantic sophistry that is all the bike lane supporters seem to be able to produce.
    John Forester and Helmet Head,

    You were looking for scientific studies that supported bike lanes. I provided one from Portland, which I don't think either of you had seen before. That wasn't good enough, so I pointed out several others, plus several studies that are currently underway. But those aren't good enough either. Well, I'll let you guys stew on it for a while. But it is not what HH said above, "...Nada. Zippo. Nothing excepth the typical sematic sophistry..."

    John, if you have taken those studies apart in the past, please do post some of that to support it. We have not been researching if as long as you have, and if it is what you say it is, you may change a few minds.

    John
    John Ratliff

  16. #141
    Banned. Helmet Head's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    San Diego
    Posts
    13,075
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by zeytoun
    Yes, I'm sorry, they're dashed, so technically the bike lane continues. I guess I just see them as ended since they are dashed, the mandatory bike lane law is now void, and cars can legally enter the space. In addition to the fact that your fear of "striping". And the striping ends. But I will not be a semantic prig. Technically, they continue, I stand corrected.
    There is no legal difference between a solid and dashed stripe, so far as I know. The law allows motorists to merge into bike lanes up to 200 feet prior to the right turn, regardless of the type of striping.


    Motor Vehicles and Motorized Bicycles in Bicycle Lanes
    21209. (a) No person shall drive a motor vehicle in a bicycle lane established on a roadway pursuant to Section 21207 except as follows:

    (1) To park where parking is permitted.

    (2) To enter or leave the roadway.

    (3) To prepare for a turn within a distance of 200 feet from the intersection.

    http://dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc21209.htm

    I guess, in a big picture sense, I would rather see something like regular ads on TV explaining to viewers how and why a cyclist would leave the right side of the road (even with a bike lane) then have bike lanes erased on arterials. On 25mph streets, yes, let's spray paint 'em all black.
    Do you mean you support erasing all bike lanes on all arterials, or just the last 200 feet?
    If you support erasing them on arterials and 25 mph streets, where do you support them?

    Quote Originally Posted by State of California
    Where motor vehicle right turns are not permitted, the solid bike lane stripe should extend to the edge of
    the intersection, and begin again on the far side. Where right turns are permitted, the solid stripe should
    terminate 30 m (100 ft) to 60 m (200 ft) prior to the intersection.
    Option:
    A dashed line, as shown in Figure 9C-102, may be carried to, or near, the intersection. Where city
    blocks are short (less than 120 m (400 ft)), the length of dashed stripe may be 30 m (100 ft).
    Guidance:
    Where blocks are longer or vehicle speeds are high (greater than 60 km/h (35 mph)), the length of dashed
    stripe should be increased to 60 m (200 ft).
    If so, isn't that in violation of California Law?
    That looks like guidelines, not a law. Is that the CA MUTCD or the CA Hwy design manual? Either way, it's not the law.

    Anyway, the law is the law, and the stripe is the stripe. The guidelines indicate they should end the bike lane, or change to dashes, at 100 feet prior. But the law allows merging up to 200 feet prior, and that stands regardless of how they paint it. Speaking of how they paint it, in most places I've measured the solid doesn't go to dashed until just a few car lengths from the intersection, or 30-60 feet.

  17. #142
    Banned. Helmet Head's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    San Diego
    Posts
    13,075
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by John C. Ratliff
    You were looking for scientific studies that supported bike lanes.
    Not quite.

    From the OP: Is there any science, or even pseudo science, supporting the advocacy of bike lanes?

    If you find a study that supports bike lanes, that's not necessarily science supporting their advocacy. You have to actually read the study and find and cite the science that actually does that. You have not done that.

  18. #143
    Banned. Helmet Head's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    San Diego
    Posts
    13,075
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by John C. Ratliff
    I provided [a study] from Portland, which I don't think either of you had seen before.
    We've seen it before, John, many times. A study showing that some bike lanes are so dangerous they need to be painted blue is science the supports the position to remove bike lanes, not advocacy of them.

  19. #144
    totally louche Bekologist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    A land that time forgot
    My Bikes
    the ever shifting stable loaded with comfortable road bikes and city and winter bikes
    Posts
    18,012
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I think Ol' Bow Tie mentions the existance of literally, hundreds of studies that scientifically support bike infrastructure, presumably including bike lanes.....

    Do you mean these blue lanes, Helmet? 'vehicular cyclists' merge onto this bridgeway using the blue lane. the blue lanes serve to warn drivers of cross traffic and make even vehicular cycling safer, not less safe. this type of infrastructure benefits all cyclists, even the blowhard armchair "VC", and all road users by the increased safety relevance.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Bekologist; 05-15-07 at 10:36 PM.
    "Evidence, anecdote and methodology all support planning for roadway bike traffic."

  20. #145
    Non-Custom Member zeytoun's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    My Bikes
    1975-1980 SR road bike
    Posts
    1,613
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    For minor intersections, the bike lane stripes don't sound as if they are ever dashed yet motor vehicles are allowed, and required, to enter them there. Why aren't minor intersections treated the same way as major intersections? The mandatory bike lane law does not apply at minor intersections either.
    This is a beef for me too. I think streets with minor intersections shouldn't have 45mph speed limits, they should be slower, and no bike lane should exist. And streets with 45mph speed limits shouldn't have frequent minor intersections.

    Of course, this is the real world, and such things exist. So how do I deal with it? From a safety point of view, I exhibit more care, and will exit the bike lane depending on specific scenarios. From an advocacy point of view, I don't know how to handle it. I don't see how erasing the line will help a newbie, if he doesn't receive more information in exchange. But I don't have a real answer for this. What do you think? Do you think bike lanes on arterials with frequent intersections should be abolished altogether, or is there another improvement you suggest?

    Don't you think you'd reach more of the people you want to reach by simply leaving the side of the road as necessary while cycling?
    I am happy to leave the side of the road as necessary. I wouldn't know how to even begin measuring and extrapolating from my anecdotal experience. I know only rarely do drivers treat me discourteously (1 every few days), and it doesn't seem to have much relevence to whether I am in the bike lane or not. It seems to depend more on the driver. And I'm not sure if there is any correlation between that and collisions or deaths.

    The points you make about PSAs are valid. But I think we need to be able to somehow distribute a message that is a bit more universal to this forum, and carries a bit of wait. My opinion is that drivers see cyclists as being very individual, and each prone to individual behavior. Just because I ride one way or say one thing, doesn't mean anyone respects my opinion. I'm just an eccentric on a bicycle.

    I want more safe cyclists on the road. I want to be able to use certain roads with less passing friction.
    We agree. I'm going to spend less times on these forums. And more doing general advocacy.
    I am a mutated sig Virus. Please put me in your sig so that I can continue to replicate and mutate, blah!.

  21. #146
    Senior Member randya's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    in bed with your mom
    My Bikes
    who cares?
    Posts
    13,696
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Bekologist
    I think Ol' Bow Tie mentions the existance of literally, hundreds of studies that scientifically support bike infrastructure, presumably including bike lanes.....

    Do you mean these blue lanes, Helmet? 'vehicular cyclists' merge onto this bridgeway using the blue lane. the blue lanes serve to warn drivers of cross traffic and make even vehicular cycling safer, not less safe. this type of infrastructure benefits all cyclists, even the blowhard armchair "VC", and all road users by the increased safety relevance.
    AJ and HH are reaching for their garlic, crosses and silver bullets as they read this.


  22. #147
    Banned. Helmet Head's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    San Diego
    Posts
    13,075
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Pete Fagerlin
    You're either very, very unobservant, a liar, or have memory problems.

    I've only measured in San Diego, and have not seen a dashed bl stripe that long anywhere. Is that in San Diego?

  23. #148
    Banned. Helmet Head's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    San Diego
    Posts
    13,075
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I don't recognize it. What street? Maybe it's a section that is not on my commute?

  24. #149
    totally louche Bekologist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    A land that time forgot
    My Bikes
    the ever shifting stable loaded with comfortable road bikes and city and winter bikes
    Posts
    18,012
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I think 'alleged commute' hits the nail squarely on the head, Pete. Helmet Head, he's one heck of a motorist! A Transportational bicyclist, not so much....
    "Evidence, anecdote and methodology all support planning for roadway bike traffic."

  25. #150
    Senior Member randya's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    in bed with your mom
    My Bikes
    who cares?
    Posts
    13,696
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    It's hard to measure the bike lane stripe while you're flying by in your RV or sports car, eh?

Page 6 of 24 FirstFirst ... 4567816 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •