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-   -   Your illegal behaviors, and why. (And are/can they be VC?) (http://www.bikeforums.net/vehicular-cycling-vc/298777-your-illegal-behaviors-why-can-they-vc.html)

Laika 05-15-07 08:21 PM

Your illegal behaviors, and why. (And are/can they be VC?)
 
Are their any illegal cycling behaviors you engage in regularly which you believe make you safer than operating your bicycle within the strictures of your local laws? (Let's leave out behaviors that occur on the last Friday of the month, please. ;))

I'll start, I guess. I (carefully) filter up through stopped cars, jump or run reds and roll through stops b/c I believe I'm safer in front of same-direction traffic than behind, beside or amongst it. And we have a mandatory BL/"far to the right as practicable" law here in NYC that I flaunt regularly based on my specific needs as I ride. (Best example of this is the BL which starts just north of Canal on the left side of Hudson street which would require a swooping four lane right to left power merge across the main point of access to the Holland tunnel in order to transition from "as far to the right as practicable" south of Canal to mandatory BL use north of Canal.)

Interested to hear others on this.

Bekologist 05-15-07 08:29 PM

I can ride vehicularily on the shoulder of a high speed road. Illegal? doubtful.

VC? Definetly.

Dchiefransom 05-15-07 08:44 PM

Sometimes I roll through stop signs when next to a car, going through with it, or don't come to a complete foot down stop when going straight through. On right turns I mostly slow way down and roll through the stop sign. If any cars are around at the stop sign, I usually stop like I was in a car. With the club I usually roll through signs if there are no cars, but will stop to the right of the group if there is a car. In a wide lane, I filter up on the right of cars. Since that's where they want us to to ride, then I do it. With tons of bike lanes here, it's usually legal to get up to the light anyway. Is this VC? I come to more complete stops than most of the cars around here, especially on right turns on red and at stop signs, but if I'm ticketed, it's my bad.
I figure I'm on a bike, so I should use my advantages. I've been at long red lights turning right, with no turn on red. I picked my bike up, walked it around the corner on the sidewalk, and got back on in the street and rode away.

DevLaVaca 05-15-07 09:35 PM

I roll through stop signs (though at <3mph), and will run one particular red light if there are no other vehicles present (though I could argue this isn't illegal, because my bike doesn't set off the sensor). I also interpret the right-side statute (in CT) to incorporate a reasonableness standard as well as a practicableness standard. I only filter if traffic is completely stopped for an entire block, and then do so very slowly. Oh, I also ride up one-way streets, but only empty ones, never an arterial (and I ride as far right as practicable, still).

Hmm, I guess only my right-side approach makes me safer.

Bekologist 05-15-07 09:44 PM

I use the left lane of four lane roads a fair bit. I pull up to stops in the left hand lane if the right is stuffed with cars.

I'm faster off the stops than the drivers, so I take the FAST lane. legal? probably not? VC, probably not.

Bek rules, definetly allowed.

randya 05-15-07 10:40 PM

I roll a large number of stop signs I frequent regularly, I probably average about 12 or more daily; there's a bit of sidewalk I ride in the downtown restricted zone five days a week to get to my normal parking spot; there's a few short spots I ride wrong way on one ways (low traffic, more convenient); I'll roll as many traffic lights as I need to to keep from stopping late at night; and I ride drunk as it pleases me.

:)

SingingSabre 05-16-07 02:36 AM

I filter.

Is it VC? Surely! It's just that it's vehicular for a narrower vehicle with but two wheels.

I-Like-To-Bike 05-16-07 08:06 AM

Anything can either be, or not be, "VC." All depends on what agenda the self appointed/self educated VC expert wants to spin.

sggoodri 05-16-07 09:26 AM

I use my right hand to signal right turns. North Carolina only recognizes the left-hand bent arm.

What I do is consistent with best practices for single-track vehicle operation, and is allowed in most states that have put some thought into how traffic laws might better recognize the use of single-track vehicles. If I use instead my left arm, people ahead wave at me, and people who matter to my right don't see my signal as well.

Any more discussion of the matter is semantic rather than operationally relevant.

Bekologist 05-16-07 09:55 AM

Really? I'd think my techniques of using the left lane on four lanes at stops definetly operationally relevant, and also illegal and not VC, rather than semantic wrangling. OR are you just mentioning your right hand signals.

I use a variety of "point and shoot" hand signals to signal to traffic that are definelty NOT codified in either drivers manuals OR the VC sacred tablets, and they get excellent recognition from drivers.

Helmet Head 05-16-07 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
Anything can either be, or not be, "VC." All depends on what agenda the self appointed/self educated VC expert wants to spin.

Typical VC contrarian nonsense.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicular_cycling

Laika 05-16-07 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Helmet Head
Typical VC contrarian nonsense.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicular_cycling

take it outside, boys. there are plenty of other threads you can muddy up with your bickering.

I-Like-To-Bike 05-16-07 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laika
take it outside, boys. there are plenty of other threads you can muddy up with your bickering.

OK, provide your definition of VC; everybody else has a different one. Then you might add what difference it makes to you, or anyone else, what behavior is/is not considered "VC."

sggoodri 05-16-07 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bekologist
OR are you just mentioning your right hand signals.

I was referring only to right hand turn signals and whether they qualified for a particular classification.

Laika 05-16-07 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
OK, provide your definition of VC; everybody else has a different one.

Don't have one, don't care particularly to do so. I'm not much of a dogmatist.

Quote:

Then you might add what difference it makes to you, or anyone else, what behavior is/is not considered "VC."
Doesn't make much, was mostly interested in a) what kinds of law-breaking cyclists here get into and b) how people squared illegal behaviors with their impressions of themselves as VC or non-VC riders.

Like I said, if you want to bicker, take it outside, if you wouldn't mind. Your first post in the thread was, to my mind, off-topic and confrontational, I know you cats all have history and such but frankly I don't care about that jive one whit. It is of course your right to post as you like but I'm asking for a little courtesy.

So are their any illegal cycling behaviors you practice regularly? How do you feel they make you safer? Why?

Thanks bunches!

rando 05-16-07 12:03 PM

I roll through stop signs on occasion. if there's no traffic around. I think that's about it.:eek:
that's not VC!!!

I-Like-To-Bike 05-16-07 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laika
Your first post in the thread was, to my mind, off-topic and confrontational,...
So are their any illegal cycling behaviors you practice regularly? How do you feel they make you safer? Why?

To my mind my first post was directly On Target with the OP and about the vague definition of VC and what behaviors are or are not VC. And it is you looking for meaning where none exists. Be that as it may...

I proceed through intersections based on existing traffic, regardless of signs or lights. Far more speedy and efficient, by golly; safer too than trusting in traffic controls. I couldn't care less how that fits into the VC preachers' definition book.

Laika 05-16-07 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
To my mind my first post was directly On Target with the OP and about the vague definition of VC and what behaviors are or are not VC. And it is you looking for meaning where none exists. Be that as it may...

The VC thing was a parenthesised addendum to the thread title, does not even appear in the OP proper, and is not the main point of the threat. Like I said if you're looking for yet another pigfight, you're in the wrong thread. It is, of course, your right to post what you like where you like, but as the OP, I promise you I have no VC axe to grind of any variety, just mild curiosity.


Quote:

I proceed through intersections based on existing traffic, regardless of signs or lights. Far more speedy and efficient, by golly; safer too than trusting in traffic controls. I couldn't care less how that fits into the VC preachers' definition book.
Oh, that's ever so much better. Thanks!

randya 05-16-07 02:00 PM

Laika, no offense, just curious: you posted a VC topic in the VC subforum, what did you expect?

;) :)

Laika 05-16-07 04:09 PM

:lol:

Machka 05-16-07 09:24 PM

Are their any illegal cycling behaviors you engage in regularly which you believe make you safer than operating your bicycle within the strictures of your local laws?

No.

zeytoun 05-16-07 10:11 PM

Quote:

Are their any illegal cycling behaviors you engage in regularly which you believe make you safer than operating your bicycle within the strictures of your local laws?
I pop speed on the bicycle. It helps me focus and makes me safer. It's vc.

sbhikes 05-17-07 07:48 AM

I violate the laws of fashion almost all the time. And I'm learning to ride no-handed so that I can practice playing the Irish tin whistle on my way to work. Of course, not seeing myself as any kind of halo-wearing VC cyclist, it really doesn't matter to me if any of this is legal or safe or not.

sggoodri 05-17-07 08:14 AM

Okay, I screwed up today. I think I ran a red light on my bike.

I stopped for a red light on my commute, waiting to turn left. Oncoming traffic was also stopped, then it got a green light and started. After it cleared, I turned left. As I was turning, I looked up and saw that my light was red.

Normally, my left turn lane has a circular green for left turns when the oncoming through lane gets a green. I turn after yielding. But I think this time, my light may have stayed red in order to provide oncoming drivers a left turn arrow combined with the through traffic. I didn't see any left turning traffic opposite me, and it wouldn't cross my path anyway, but regardless of that I'm supposed to turn left on green, not on red after yielding.

The other possibility is that the light started green but turned red while I was waiting for oncoming traffic to clear - in fact that's what I thought at the instant I saw the red light - but in retrospect I don't think that's the case. I think I entered the intersection on red to turn when I saw a big gap in oncoming traffic arrive.

Since I am one of BikeForums' top advocates of obeying the normal traffic laws on a bike, I think BikeForums members should recommend what penalty I should pay. Community service suggestions are preferred, but if you want to sentence me to a week of bike commuting in cotton clothing, or sweep the bike lanes with a toothbrush, I'll understand.

-Steve

Bekologist 05-17-07 09:15 AM

that you find commuting in cotton clothing a 'punishment' is telling, steve. hmmm. 'serious' cycle clothing only, eh?

Do you disparage other cyclists that commute in street clothes in your community? just asking. not really related to the topic at hand.

sometimes I commute on one of my bikes that has a front rack. Often I stuff a section of the paper or magazine on it, to read at lunch. Sometimes I break it out at long traffic lights. What happens afterwards, I catch myself reading the newspaper while riding. Illegal? don't know. difficult? newspaper, yes. unless it's a tabloid - easier to flip the pages.

Unsafe, not particularily. but my reading comprehension suffers due my attentions to the traffic. I think National Geographic is one of the better choices. Nice pictures.


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