Schwinnhund

An Incompetent Cyclist is one who refuses to obey the traffic rules. They make it hard on the rest of us.

Ga. has some traffic rules that are specific for bicycles. They will ticket you if you break them.

Script

You've entered some dangerous territory. Rules are negotiable for many who post on this forum. Good Luck.

genec

Well if that is the case, then here is a whole thread about incompetent cyclists: https://www.bikeforums.net/vehicular-cycling-vc/387260-when-okay-ignore-traffic-laws-groups-do-so-must-okay.html

RomSpaceKnight

An incompetent cyclist is one who rides on sidewalks, rides at night without lights, runs redlights or rides against traffic. Riding a bike in poor mechanical shape or riding with hands full of coffees or shopping bags is also a sign of an incompetent cyclist.

starkmojo

My definition of competency is a cyclist who behaves predictably, yields or takes the right of way according to the difined rules of traffic, and who does not switch back and forth between sidewalks and street, and rides observently and defensively....

But thats just me.

chipcom 

Plenty of competent cyclists ride on sidewalks from time to time. The mark of a competent cyclist isn't blindly following some goofy dogma, the mark of a competent cyclist is one who is smart enough to adapt to the conditions at hand and utilize the unique attributes of the bike to get from point A to point B in the safest possible manner.

rando

This from the guy who thinks you're not a "real" cyclist unless you wear a helmet.

gcottay

I am the very model of a modern competent cyclist. Until I hit an ice patch, slide on my butt through the slush, and become the picture of an incontinent cyclist.

Script

Good definition!

Bekologist

one of the marks of a competant cyclist is the ability to recognize they are NOT 'driving' their bicycles and their bikes are most emphatically NOT a motorized vehicle, and has different operating characteristics that lend itself to a proto-vehicular mode of operation.

one of the marks of a competant cyclist is coming to realize your fallibility, the fallibility of other road users, and your relative invisibility REGARDLESS of road position.

Script

What is proto-vehicular and how does what you're saying define competence? I completely agree that a cyclist remember they're on a little piece of metal, rubber and plastic without a motor. But don't you still have to figure out how to safely share the road space?

Bekologist

i use 'proto-vehicular' to describe vehicle use prior to the internal combustion engine.

the term 'vehicular' has morphed to become loaded with the characteristics of MOTORIZED travel despite vehicles having no motors for the vast majority of human's use of vehicles.

in my description 'proto-vehicular' just harkens back to the days before motorized transport.
Recognizing bicycling is NOT on equal footing with motorized traffic is one of the marks of a competant bicyclist- like chip and others have said, recognizing when non-vehicular operation is more prudent and safe than strict 'vehicular' interpretation on how to ride a bike.

Script

Thanks! Do you think it's too late to get rid of motorized vehicles and keep the roads?

Just kidding, although it would be wonderful. Seems like I agree with the majority of your posts.

Bekologist

I'm on vacation, sorry for the slow response.

I've outlined below what I consider the marks of a competent cyclist ( you think forestors' test is hard????)

1) ability to ride dirt trails on a road bike

2)ability to hold a straight line with your eyes closed

3)ability to ride no handed while
--- a)holding a cup of coffee
--- b)changing lanes
--- c)turning a corner
--- d)turning a corner uphill

4) the ability to execute skid turns on ice and slick surfaces

5)sidehilling wet grass with road slicks

6) parallel curbjumps

any less and I'm going to consider you incompetant

Script

Be careful, you're in grave danger of going off topic.

But to add to the easy things you mention (do 'em almost daily)...

1. Climb slickrock in the rain on a roadie with a polypropelene chain, only aero bars and solid rubber tires.

2. Ride behind a hog truck on a dirt road without a mask while eating an energy bar.

3. Repair a flat without getting off the bike.

4. Do a 7 mile, 7% grade uphill with only one leg clipped in.

5. Find something by JF you can agree with.

Bekologist

come on! I only suck GU while behind hog trucks!

in all seriousness, my metrics for 'competant' cycling are bonifide assessments I use on guys from the bike shop.

Also, the ability to let go of the handlebars while doing 40 on a loaded touring bike.

john, helmet head, nun- if you cannot do all of these things - INCOMPETANCY!

noisebeam

I'll play Bek's game for entertainment

1. Maybe. I can ride my cyclocross bike on trails - but it has knobby 32c tires. My 25c road tires would not survive much past the first 100yards of trail. So I don't see how this is a cyclist skill vs. equipment. Of course I can ride my road bike with 25c tires on hard packed dirt roads with minimal rocks, but that is hardly different than pavement.

2. For how long? A foot, a mile? So again the answer is maybe/depends

3a. Don't drink coffee or other open topped containers while on the bike. Could I hold a cup of liquid with liquid say 1/2" from rim while riding without spilling, I'd bet I could, but its not a skill I find practical.
3b-c - Depends on the equipment. Some bikes I own I can ride no handed and turn with wide radius, etc. no problem. Other bikes become far more uncontrollable no handed.

4. Can do, but never do. No ice here, but on dirt trails on cyclocross I can. I don't on wet roads with traffic.

5. I never ride across wet grassy hills. I've seen some top class cyclocross cyclist struggle with this skill on some race courses, but of course pushing race pace.

6. Again I can do this easy on some bikes, I can't on my fixed gear, so again equipment affects level of skill required.

Al

Script

Okay, so I don't do 'em every day.

1. As a kid, rode dirt trail all the time on a medium tire single speed. MTB's didn't exist.

2. Yes, eyes closed and no handed.

3. Same as noisebeam.

4. Again, as a kid, rode in all conditions and did. Nowadays, snow and ice put me on the trainer.

5. Lots of speed to get up a short embankment- momentum and balance but didn't always make it.

6. Same as noisebeam.

Depends on how the bike is loaded. Low CG and perfect side to side, okay. Otherwise, I anticipate road rash.

I guess I'll just hang my head and pout. Can't qualify for VC and can't qualify for competent.

Bekologist

yeah, if you can't ride dugast tubulars on rocks you are incompetant, noisebeam

you fail one of my metrics asserting 25c tires don't or won't work on rough trails. Not that it's the best choice of equipment for the task, but a competant bicyclist should be able to ride gravel, dirt, rocks etc on 25c tires.

my opinion. but I like my metrics better than 'ankling' and 'too slow uphills'

noisebeam

Maybe out definition of rough is different. The trails I think of are desert southwest mountain bike singletrack, trails on which skilled mtber on full sus bikes blow tires. I manage carefully on 32c tires by unweighting over sharp ledges, etc. as best I can, but there are times when the only route options are thick with 4-12" sharp rocks, just something one can not manage with 25c tires without ripping a sidewall or cutting the tread, let alone a pinch flat. I know I've tried - there is only so much unweighting one can do before one levitates.

Dirt 4wD roads are different. The tire tracks are generally clear enough of large rocks to make them great for high speed riding with any tire, although I still prefer 32c knobbies over 25c slicks.

Anyway a trail with just dirt and gravel (no fields of rocks) would be a very well maintained one and probably be called a path instead due to the level of building and maintenance to remove the rocks.

Al

noisebeam

It's called vacation Bek, stay away from BF, it's worse for your health than a real job.

By the way can you see the atmospheric smoke haze from Kilauea?



Maybe sunrise has a special warmth to the colors?

Al

Bekologist

oh, i'm just surfing the site in between torrid emails with my girlfriend- and I find you guys and this forum entertaining! It's good stuff even on vaca.