Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > > >

Vehicular Cycling (VC) No other subject has polarized the A&S members like VC has. Here's a place to share, debate, and educate.

View Poll Results: Which of the following do you consider generally accurate?
I find that HH's posts are generally fairly clear and understandable 12 42.86%
I find that HH's posts foster understanding 4 14.29%
I find that HH's posts are generally not clear or understandable 8 28.57%
I find that HH's posts generally do not foster understanding 9 32.14%
I make no good faith attempt to understand HH's posts 5 17.86%
I would rather vote for Pedro 6 21.43%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 28. You may not vote on this poll

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 05-23-07, 02:04 PM   #1
zeytoun
Non-Custom Member
Thread Starter
 
zeytoun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Portland, Oregon
Bikes: 1975-1980 SR road bike
Posts: 1,613
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I Understand...

Which of these positions best describes you and your understanding of HH's posts?

I find that HH's posts are generally fairly clear and understandable
I find that HH's posts foster understanding
I find that HH's posts are generally not clear or understandable
I find that HH's posts generally do not foster understanding
I make no good faith attempt to understand HH's posts


(you may make multiple selections)
zeytoun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-07, 02:11 PM   #2
natelutkjohn
Cheesmonger Extraordinair
 
natelutkjohn's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Bikes:
Posts: 417
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I make no effort, what's the point? But the rare times that I do, I find them completely void of fostering understanding - just silly applications of big words to make him look smarter then he really is. I bet HH would learn a lot if he read some Peter Feynman lectures - intelligent experts don't need to use large and excessive words to get their points across, only the imbeciles among us need to becasue it makes others think we know our stuff.
natelutkjohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-07, 02:22 PM   #3
Helmet Head
Banned.
 
Helmet Head's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: San Diego
Bikes:
Posts: 13,075
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by natelutkjohn
I make no effort, what's the point? But the rare times that I do, I find them completely void of fostering understanding - just silly applications of big words to make him look smarter then he really is. I bet HH would learn a lot if he read some Peter Feynman lectures - intelligent experts don't need to use large and excessive words to get their points across, only the imbeciles among us need to becasue it makes others think we know our stuff.
I assume you mean Richard Feynman.
Helmet Head is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-07, 02:22 PM   #4
rando
Senior Member
 
rando's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Tempe, AZ
Bikes:
Posts: 2,967
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I used to make an effort, and I still do sometimes, but the writing is so dense and convoluted and intricate, much more so than it needs to be, that I just give up.
rando is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-07, 02:29 PM   #5
natelutkjohn
Cheesmonger Extraordinair
 
natelutkjohn's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Bikes:
Posts: 417
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Helmet Head
I assume you mean Richard Feynman.
That I do, good call - have you read him? Or did you google that?
natelutkjohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-07, 02:35 PM   #6
zeytoun
Non-Custom Member
Thread Starter
 
zeytoun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Portland, Oregon
Bikes: 1975-1980 SR road bike
Posts: 1,613
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Did you vote in this poll, HH?
zeytoun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-07, 02:37 PM   #7
AlmostTrick
Yabba-Dabba-Doo!
 
AlmostTrick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Bedrock, IL
Bikes: 1968 Schwinn Orange Krate, 5 speed stick shift
Posts: 4,786
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
I find HH's posts are generally fairly clear and understandable. I may not always agree with some of his points, and he sometimes goes on too long, but he's not all that hard to understand. Big words? I can't remember having to hit up the dictionary when reading an HH post. What's clear is that many here really dislike his ideas and/or style of communicating, so they can't be bothered even trying to understand him. Fair enough I suppose.
AlmostTrick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-07, 02:42 PM   #8
zeytoun
Non-Custom Member
Thread Starter
 
zeytoun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Portland, Oregon
Bikes: 1975-1980 SR road bike
Posts: 1,613
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
What's clear is that many here really dislike his ideas and/or style of communicating, so they can't be bothered even trying to understand him.
Actually, that's not clear yet. That's why we have the poll.

So far, 1 person has selected the poll option indicating that they don't try to understand him.
zeytoun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-07, 02:42 PM   #9
I-Like-To-Bike
Been Around Awhile
 
I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi
Posts: 23,732
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeytoun
Did you vote in this poll, HH?
Somebody voted that he/she/it never shows good faith to understand HH. I wonder who would vote that way to describe themselves; I suspect a ringer.
I-Like-To-Bike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-07, 02:58 PM   #10
natelutkjohn
Cheesmonger Extraordinair
 
natelutkjohn's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Bikes:
Posts: 417
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
Somebody voted that he/she/it never shows good faith to understand HH. I wonder who would vote that way to describe themselves; I suspect a ringer.

Actualy that would be me - no ringer, just entirely fed up with HH, I used to read and understand his posts, but that was a looong time ago.
natelutkjohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-07, 03:08 PM   #11
Helmet Head
Banned.
 
Helmet Head's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: San Diego
Bikes:
Posts: 13,075
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeytoun
Did you vote in this poll, HH?
Yes. Is that pathetic? In any case, I chose the first two options of course.


Quote:
That I do, good call - have you read him? Or did you google that?
I never read the lectures, but I read his book "Surely you're joking" many years ago. Great book.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rando
the writing is so dense and convoluted and intricate, much more so than it needs to be, that I just give up.
Can you show me any specific examples of my writing that you consider to be "dense and convoluted and intricate"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlmostTrick
I find HH's posts are generally fairly clear and understandable. I may not always agree with some of his points, and he sometimes goes on too long, but he's not all that hard to understand. Big words? I can't remember having to hit up the dictionary when reading an HH post.
I'm glad I'm not the only one. Which makes me wonder why so many seem to have trouble understanding my writing. And even I don't always agree with some of my points (after I give them some more thought, or someone points something out to me).

Quote:
What's clear is that many here really dislike his ideas and/or style of communicating, so they can't be bothered even trying to understand him. Fair enough I suppose.
I do think that's a huge part of it, and explains much of the discord on this forum. I don't see how that's "fair" though. If I'm going to disagree with someone, I do my best to try to understand what they're saying to make sure I understand what I'm disagreeing with. That's fair.
Helmet Head is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-07, 03:11 PM   #12
natelutkjohn
Cheesmonger Extraordinair
 
natelutkjohn's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Bikes:
Posts: 417
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Helmet Head
YI don't see how that's "fair" though. If I'm going to disagree with someone, I do my best to try to understand what they're saying to make sure I understand what I'm disagreeing with. That's fair.

The world isn't "fair" HH
natelutkjohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-07, 03:19 PM   #13
zeytoun
Non-Custom Member
Thread Starter
 
zeytoun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Portland, Oregon
Bikes: 1975-1980 SR road bike
Posts: 1,613
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Yes. Is that pathetic?
I don't know whether it is pathetic or not. I just wondered, because I was preparing a separate poll for your use, in which I was going to switch out the "HHs"s for "my"s... now I don't have to.

Quote:
I do think that's a huge part of it, and explains much of the discord on this forum.
I make a good faith attempt to understand your posts, Helmie. And yet, I think that I am a contributory force for much discord on this forum.

I'm just curious to see what others think.
zeytoun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-07, 03:25 PM   #14
randya
Senior Member
 
randya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: in bed with your mom
Bikes: who cares?
Posts: 13,689
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I voted c and d and as a result I've stopped reading most of them.
randya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-07, 03:35 PM   #15
lima_bean
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
Bikes: Jamis Nova
Posts: 714
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by natelutkjohn
That I do, good call - have you read him? Or did you google that?
I looove Feynman, read a lot of his stuff =D
lima_bean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-07, 03:44 PM   #16
natelutkjohn
Cheesmonger Extraordinair
 
natelutkjohn's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Bikes:
Posts: 417
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by lima_bean
I looove Feynman, read a lot of his stuff =D
Awesome! I'm, hopefully getting the entire lecture series in hardcover for my 30th bday this summer *fingers crossed*
natelutkjohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-07, 04:32 PM   #17
deputyjones
Striving for Fredness
 
deputyjones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: West Michigan
Bikes: Old Giant Rincon
Posts: 1,190
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by lima_bean
I looove Feynman, read a lot of his stuff =D
Never heard of him, but I will check it out.

Regarding the poll: I voted "C" because, damn man, I don't have all day. Brevity counts.
deputyjones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-07, 05:40 PM   #18
rando
Senior Member
 
rando's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Tempe, AZ
Bikes:
Posts: 2,967
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by deputyjones
Never heard of him, but I will check it out.

Regarding the poll: I voted "C" because, damn man, I don't have all day. Brevity counts.
Brevity is good. If I had one suggestion, it would be to pare down the verbiage.
rando is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-07, 06:50 PM   #19
LittleBigMan
Sumanitu taka owaci
 
LittleBigMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Bikes:
Posts: 8,945
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeytoun
Which of these positions best describes you and your understanding of HH's posts?

I find that HH's posts are generally fairly clear and understandable
I find that HH's posts foster understanding
I find that HH's posts are generally not clear or understandable
I find that HH's posts generally do not foster understanding
I make no good faith attempt to understand HH's posts


(you may make multiple selections)
I did not vote (I usually don't vote on polls, since I already know what I think.)
__________________
No worries
LittleBigMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-07, 07:03 PM   #20
joejack951
Senior Member
 
joejack951's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Wilmington, DE
Bikes: 1984 Trek 660, 2003 Specialized Hardrock, 2004 LOOK KG386i (RIP), 2005 Iron Horse Warrior Expert, 2009 Pedal Force CX1, 2014 Islabikes CNOC 14 (son's)
Posts: 10,106
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 132 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by rando
Brevity is good. If I had one suggestion, it would be to pare down the verbiage.
Brevity while maintaining clarity is a very difficult thing to do. Ever read a magazine article on a topic then read a book about the same topic? Did you find that the magazine article conveyed the same message or did was it slightly misleading due to lack of space to fully explain a concept? I'm sure that if HH critiqued each of his posts for a day before hitting "reply" they'd be a bit shorter but then how would all of these threads reach 20 pages so quickly?

HH is one of a few posters who will take the time to say exactly what they mean if someone questions him. I think that's a good quality; at least it's preferable to simply dodging the question or saying "aw, jus' playin'." It is surprising to me that he finds time to work at all with all of his posting but that's his boss's problem, not mine
joejack951 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-07, 07:10 PM   #21
Raiyn
I drink your MILKSHAKE
 
Raiyn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: St. Petersburg, FL
Bikes: 2003 Specialized Rockhopper FSR Comp, 1999 Specialized Hardrock Comp FS, 1971 Schwinn Varsity
Posts: 15,061
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
C,D,and E for me. I no longer try to make sense of his posts, just isn't worth it to me anymore
__________________
Raiyn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-07, 07:46 PM   #22
I-Like-To-Bike
Been Around Awhile
 
I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi
Posts: 23,732
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by natelutkjohn
Actualy that would be me - no ringer, just entirely fed up with HH, I used to read and understand his posts, but that was a looong time ago.
Thanks for the clarification. I've understood his posts from the beginning. There's not much of substance to understand. That's why I don't pay too much attention to his endless chatter. Let those who think there is something to gain by debating minutia and angel dancing with him do so. Different strokes, ya know?
I-Like-To-Bike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-07, 08:38 PM   #23
sbhikes
Dominatrikes
 
sbhikes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Still in Santa Barbara
Bikes: Catrike Pocket, Lightning Thunderbold recumbent, Trek 3000 MTB.
Posts: 4,920
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
This poll is mean.
sbhikes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-07, 09:43 PM   #24
Brian
Senior Member
 
Brian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Between the mountains and the lake.
Bikes: 8 bikes - one for each day of the week!
Posts: 16,683
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by sbhikes
This poll is mean.
How so?
Brian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-07, 09:43 PM   #25
deputyjones
Striving for Fredness
 
deputyjones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: West Michigan
Bikes: Old Giant Rincon
Posts: 1,190
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by joejack951
Brevity while maintaining clarity is a very difficult thing to do. Ever read a magazine article on a topic then read a book about the same topic? Did you find that the magazine article conveyed the same message or did was it slightly misleading due to lack of space to fully explain a concept? I'm sure that if HH critiqued each of his posts for a day before hitting "reply" they'd be a bit shorter but then how would all of these threads reach 20 pages so quickly?

HH is one of a few posters who will take the time to say exactly what they mean if someone questions him. I think that's a good quality; at least it's preferable to simply dodging the question or saying "aw, jus' playin'." It is surprising to me that he finds time to work at all with all of his posting but that's his boss's problem, not mine
Understood and agreed with the first point. However, it is hard to keep up a debate with someone who posts multi-page posts 50 times a day. He wins arguments through sheer attrition.
deputyjones is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:36 PM.