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  1. #51
    totally louche Bekologist's Avatar
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    john, you keep dodging, dude.

    here's the question, one more time...

    vehicular bicyclists can ride in a bike lane, vehicularily. yes or no?
    "Evidence, anecdote and methodology all support planning for roadway bike traffic."

  2. #52
    totally louche Bekologist's Avatar
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    and what do you mean, I have no right to advocate for bike infrastructure like bike lanes, despite my riding vehicularily???

    are you the bicycling morality police? if not,bugger off and stuff it, old man.
    "Evidence, anecdote and methodology all support planning for roadway bike traffic."

  3. #53
    Dances With Cars TRaffic Jammer's Avatar
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    VC won't catch on because CHARLIE DON'T SURF!!!

    The Messengers know .... take it to the streets long enough and will all make sense. But you can't learn it by reading about it. Respect your environment and be ready for anything. Surfers know, skaters know, climbers know, messengers know.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bekologist
    and what do you mean, I have no right to advocate for bike infrastructure like bike lanes, despite my riding vehicularily???

    are you the bicycling morality police? if not,bugger off and stuff it, old man.
    You, Bekologist, are the one who introduced the right to advocate various things of relevance to this discussion, by saying that I had no right to advocate. All I did was to turn the issue to your advocacy, to see how you would justify your advocative activities in the light of your stated requirement of a right. I notice that, despite your demand that a right must exist to justify advocacy, you have failed to provide any justification for your own advocacy.

    Both the kind of illogic that you use, and the language that you use, are unfit for polite society.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bekologist
    john, you keep dodging, dude.

    here's the question, one more time...

    vehicular bicyclists can ride in a bike lane, vehicularily. yes or no?
    I don't trust your argumentative style. I will repeat, however, for the N'th time, that, on occasion, a vehicular cyclist will find himself riding in a bike lane. On the other hand, when on a street with a bike lane, he may also find himself not riding in the bike lane.

  6. #56
    totally louche Bekologist's Avatar
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    ...you don't trust MY argumentative style....

    so john, it IS within the scope of vehicular cycling to use a bike lane in a vehicular manner.
    "Evidence, anecdote and methodology all support planning for roadway bike traffic."

  7. #57
    totally louche Bekologist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Forester
    Shall we turn it around, on the similar assumption that you cycle in the vehicular manner (correct me if I am wrong).
    let's NOT turn it around, you argumentative old man.

    i ride similarily to Traffic Jammer, in an extra-vehicular manner. I'm slicing and dicing traffic, riding the wrong way sometimes-

    did so today, wrong way riding heading north on first to a red light and a left turn into the Pike Place Market versus getting stuck behind cars and waiting in the road for oncoming traffic at the actual intersection..

    I ride the double yellows, split lanes to stops, weaving and dodging the urban traffic dance without a lot of fancy pants concessions to 'vehicularism'- although I ride 'vehicularily' the majority of the time, it is not a method to follow dogmatically.

    I understand how to ride vehicularily...i take the lane when needed, and also know how to use a bike lane.

    I know riding strictly 'vehicularily' will get bicyclists stuck in traffic in the big city. a lot.

    I ride with a safety first, traffic be damned style.

    I understand what bike lanes do for the bikeability of a community, i know that riding on the shoulder of a high speed country road is the most natural, vehicular position for a bicyclist to be in, i understand the spiel against facilities is largely groundless because

    vehicular bicyclists can ride vehicularliy in a bike lane. particularily along high speed suburban arterials, but also on any road that has a well provided bike lane. i also understand that on occasion a vehicular bicyclist will need to leave a bike lane, negotiating for lane position as required.

    bike lanes increase the bikeability of a community, encourage greater bicycling, encourage more visible lane position from average cyclists than wide outside lanes alone, discourage curb hugging, and help average bicyclists negotiate communities by bicycle.

    to assert I have no right to my opinion is the height of rudeness, old man, and you deserve my scorn. stuff it.
    "Evidence, anecdote and methodology all support planning for roadway bike traffic."

  8. #58
    Dances With Cars TRaffic Jammer's Avatar
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    I say ...... *smacks with bugs bunny glove with a brick in it.*
    I demand satisfaction.

    The wonderful thing about our sharing the road is that cars (shark) can accelerate and catch up once things clear up in city traffic, whereas the bike (grouper fish) is more agile and prone to carving past the blocked up section of the roadway.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bekologist
    let's NOT turn it around, you argumentative old man.

    i ride similarily to Traffic Jammer, in an extra-vehicular manner. I'm slicing and dicing traffic, riding the wrong way sometimes-

    did so today, wrong way riding heading north on first to a red light and a left turn into the Pike Place Market versus getting stuck behind cars and waiting in the road for oncoming traffic at the actual intersection..

    I ride the double yellows, split lanes to stops, weaving and dodging the urban traffic dance without a lot of fancy pants concessions to 'vehicularism'- although I ride 'vehicularily' the majority of the time, it is not a method to follow dogmatically.

    I understand how to ride vehicularily...i take the lane when needed, and also know how to use a bike lane.

    I know riding strictly 'vehicularily' will get bicyclists stuck in traffic in the big city. a lot.

    I ride with a safety first, traffic be damned style.

    I understand what bike lanes do for the bikeability of a community, i know that riding on the shoulder of a high speed country road is the most natural, vehicular position for a bicyclist to be in, i understand the spiel against facilities is largely groundless because

    vehicular bicyclists can ride vehicularliy in a bike lane. particularily along high speed suburban arterials, but also on any road that has a well provided bike lane. i also understand that on occasion a vehicular bicyclist will need to leave a bike lane, negotiating for lane position as required.

    bike lanes increase the bikeability of a community, encourage greater bicycling, encourage more visible lane position from average cyclists than wide outside lanes alone, discourage curb hugging, and help average bicyclists negotiate communities by bicycle.

    to assert I have no right to my opinion is the height of rudeness, old man, and you deserve my scorn. stuff it.
    You are the one who first introduced the concept of the right to advocate. I did not consider your comment to be the height of rudeness, whatever your age might be, but simply asked for your claim to such a right since you advocate so much. Your reply simply goes with the unpleasantness of both your words and the acts that you say you commit.

  10. #60
    totally louche Bekologist's Avatar
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    since it's within the realm of vehicular cycling to ride vehicularily in a bike lane, advocating for bike infrastructure like on road bike lanes is also within the right of a vehicular cyclist.

    take your sophistry and argumentative style masquerading as polite banter and stuff it, john. you are NOT the bicycling morality police, your an out of touch, quixotic old man with an anti-populist stance on bicycling.

    that's my opinion and I'm entitled to it.

    as to vehicular cycling on accomodating shoulders of highway speed roads, and vehicular cycling in bike lanes, those are blatantly obvious part and parcel of vehicular cycling.

    I just like mentioning it often & repeatedly, since you've joined up the forums, john-
    vehicular cyclists can ride vehicularily in a bike lane. neener, neener, neener!
    "Evidence, anecdote and methodology all support planning for roadway bike traffic."

  11. #61
    totally louche Bekologist's Avatar
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    i'm the one who first introduced the concept of the right to advocate?

    you are hilarious and pathetic, old man.
    "Evidence, anecdote and methodology all support planning for roadway bike traffic."

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