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  1. #1
    Long Distance Cyclist Machka's Avatar
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    'Bike lane' question

    When you people use the term "bike lane", you mean "shoulder", right? And if so ... why do you call it a "bike lane"?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Machka
    When you people use the term "bike lane", you mean "shoulder", right? And if so ... why do you call it a "bike lane"?
    A bike lane is a lane on the roadway, not on the shoulder, which is not part of the roadway. A bike lane is for travel by bicycle, with crossflows by motor traffic minimized -- well, wherever there is a need for motor traffic to cross it, it is allowed to do so.

  3. #3
    Long Distance Cyclist Machka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Forester
    A bike lane is a lane on the roadway, not on the shoulder, which is not part of the roadway. A bike lane is for travel by bicycle, with crossflows by motor traffic minimized -- well, wherever there is a need for motor traffic to cross it, it is allowed to do so.
    So ... what's the difference between one of these "bike lanes" and a shoulder? It still sounds like the same thing to me. And who determines that this "bike lane" is for travel by bicycle? Anyone can travel on a shoulder. In fact, they are actually there for cars to pull over onto, not technically for bicycles.

    The attached picture shows one of the roads near where I live. I am standing on what I call a "shoulder". Is that what everyone here calls a "bike lane"?
    .
    Attached Images Attached Images

  4. #4
    Cycle Year Round CB HI's Avatar
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    http://img291.imageshack.us/my.php?i...cp03408vc9.jpg

    Bikelane is the part with the funny little man, that has the funny hat painted between the 2 white lines.

    Shoulder is the part to the right of the right white line.

  5. #5
    Erect member since 1953 cccorlew's Avatar
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    Bike lane: Where they sweep the glass from off the regular road.
    WANTED: Not a darn thing. I've got it all. Life is good.
    Website at curtis.corlew.com Bicycle blog at ccorlew.blogspot.com

  6. #6
    Long Distance Cyclist Machka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CB HI
    http://img291.imageshack.us/my.php?i...cp03408vc9.jpg

    Bikelane is the part with the funny little man, that has the funny hat painted between the 2 white lines.

    Shoulder is the part to the right of the right white line.

    A parking lot?

  7. #7
    Cycle Year Round CB HI's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machka
    A parking lot?
    In many states - yes!

    Your picture is a shoulder. I will take your shoulder over our bikelanes any day.
    Last edited by CB HI; 06-07-07 at 11:18 PM.

  8. #8
    Cycle Year Round CB HI's Avatar
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    In some places, bikelanes are painted to provide extra room for buses and trucks.
    http://img291.imageshack.us/my.php?i...cp03400pu8.jpg

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    Cycle Year Round CB HI's Avatar
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    And this bikelane is designed to let motorist know how far into the road a parked cars door will open.
    http://img208.imageshack.us/my.php?i...ture006ft3.jpg

  10. #10
    Senior Member Dchiefransom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CB HI
    In many states - yes!

    Your picture is a shoulder.
    In many states, they paint the words "Bike Lane" on the shoulder, and that's the bike lane, especially in rural areas. Many times municipalities slap some paint down on the road where a bike realistically can't ride, and call it a bike lane.

    Bike lanes are used a lot in urban areas. We rode today on roads with bike lanes from 3'-10' wide. These are roads/streets with curbs and no shoulder. We rode on some small "lanes" with no bike lane at all, like in front of Steve Jobs house.
    Silver Eagle Pilot

  11. #11
    Long Distance Cyclist Machka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CB HI
    And this bikelane is designed to let motorist know how far into the road a parked cars door will open.
    http://img208.imageshack.us/my.php?i...ture006ft3.jpg
    That would be considered a parking lane in my part of the world.

  12. #12
    Long Distance Cyclist Machka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CB HI
    Your picture is a shoulder. I will take your shoulder over our bikelanes any day.
    That's all we've got in my part of the world.

    I've been racking my brain, and I think I've only seen a part of the road with a bicycle painted on it in Canberra, Australia. It was cute!! But I've never seen them out in the country.

  13. #13
    totally louche Bekologist's Avatar
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    machka, you are just being obtuse, right?

    I recommend a little trip to Victoria or Vancouver, where there is a fair amount of bike lanes and other bike infrastructure, and modal splits for biking as transportation are some of the highest in Canada.
    "Evidence, anecdote and methodology all support planning for roadway bike traffic."

  14. #14
    Long Distance Cyclist Machka's Avatar
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    I'm very serious when I say I've only ever seen what I guess must have been a "bike lane" in Canberra ... it was the cutest little thing ... about the width of a narrow sidewalk with bicycles painted on it. It amused me!

    But then ... if I can at all help it ... I don't ride in cities. So I guess it's possible these things exist in some Canadian cities. I've just never seen them. And yet the way people talk about them here, you'd think they were really common or something.

  15. #15
    totally louche Bekologist's Avatar
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    bike specific infrastructure is common in cities and suburban areas and eases travel on high speed arterials, encourages bicycling as transportation, increases % of bikes used as everyday transportation, makes drivers more cognizant of bicyclists on the road, moves curb huggers away from the curb, and helps decrease indexed accident rates for bicyclists.
    "Evidence, anecdote and methodology all support planning for roadway bike traffic."

  16. #16
    Long Distance Cyclist Machka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bekologist
    bike specific infrastructure is common in cities and suburban areas and eases travel on high speed arterials, encourages bicycling as transportation, increases % of bikes used as everyday transportation, makes drivers more cognizant of bicyclists on the road, moves curb huggers away from the curb, and helps decrease indexed accident rates for bicyclists.
    Well, I can assure you, there's none of that stuff going on in the city in which I currently live. Nor was there any of that stuff going on in the city in which I previously lived ... or the city before that ...

    The closest thing I've ever seen to a "bike lane" in any city in the Canadian prairies would be Winnipeg's Diamond Lanes which are supposed to be lanes for busses, car-pools, taxis, and bicycles.

  17. #17
    totally louche Bekologist's Avatar
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    take a TRIP to Victoria BC, machka. highest % of bike commuters anywhere in Canada, i believe. lots of bike lanes, which are emphatically NOT 'shoulders.'

    are you sure you're not just being obtuse?
    "Evidence, anecdote and methodology all support planning for roadway bike traffic."

  18. #18
    Long Distance Cyclist Machka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bekologist
    take a TRIP to Victoria BC, machka. highest % of bike commuters anywhere in Canada, i believe. lots of bike lanes, which are emphatically NOT 'shoulders.'

    are you sure you're not just being obtuse?
    I took a trip to Vancouver Island at the beginning of April, but cycled sort of around the Nanaimo area, out in the country, and never went into Victoria. There were LOTS of cyclists out there ... and the roads had shoulders ... but no "bike lanes".

    And no, I'm not being obtuse ... I just have real trouble believing that "bike lanes" are all that common.

  19. #19
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machka
    I took a trip to Vancouver Island at the beginning of April, but cycled sort of around the Nanaimo area, out in the country, and never went into Victoria. There were LOTS of cyclists out there ... and the roads had shoulders ... but no "bike lanes".

    And no, I'm not being obtuse ... I just have real trouble believing that "bike lanes" are all that common.
    If I never went into cities I might believe subways and tall office buildings were only figments of somebody's imagination. And if I never left the city I might not believe that such things as barns or grain elevators are very common. But then, I'm not so obtuse or provincial.

  20. #20
    genec genec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machka
    So ... what's the difference between one of these "bike lanes" and a shoulder? It still sounds like the same thing to me. And who determines that this "bike lane" is for travel by bicycle? Anyone can travel on a shoulder. In fact, they are actually there for cars to pull over onto, not technically for bicycles.

    The attached picture shows one of the roads near where I live. I am standing on what I call a "shoulder". Is that what everyone here calls a "bike lane"?
    .
    Jeeze that thing looks to be nearly 10 feet wide. If bike lanes were only that wide.

    Bike lanes are generally about 5 feet wide, and are marked in some manner to indicate "Bike Lane."

  21. #21
    Dominatrikes sbhikes's Avatar
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    I don't think Canada is real. I've never actually seen Canada. Some people say they are Canadian, but they speak English and sound more like they're probably from the Mid-west. Everybody knows the only thing above the US is Alaska and ice, so I'm pretty sure that Canada is either just an empty spot above the US or possibly a place to park cars.
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    8.5 mile commute. I like bike lanes.

  22. #22
    Long Distance Cyclist Machka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sbhikes
    I don't think Canada is real. I've never actually seen Canada. Some people say they are Canadian, but they speak English and sound more like they're probably from the Mid-west. Everybody knows the only thing above the US is Alaska and ice, so I'm pretty sure that Canada is either just an empty spot above the US or possibly a place to park cars.


    We don't have cars up here ... too much ice and snow. We use dog sleds!! Everyone parks their cars as soon as they cross the border and gets a dog sled to use for the rest of their trip. Oh, and if you're cycling, you'll want studs for your tires or you'll slip on the ice.


    I have no doubt at all that "bike lanes" exist. I've seen them!! But in all the travels I've done in North America, Australia, and Europe ... in the cities (yes, I have been to many, many cities) ,and in the country (where I prefer to be), I have seen ONE city with "bike lanes" - Canberra, Australia - and those bike lanes were about 1-2 ft wide.

    When I lived in Winnipeg, cyclists also discussed "bike lanes", but of course it was all hypothetical.

    So, since "bike lanes" are relatively rare, sort of like blue moons, I wonder why there is so much discussion here about them. Is it all wishful thinking?? I'm thinking that instead of "bike lanes", a more relavent discussion might be about shoulders, and the rumble strips they insist on laying down on the shoulders.

  23. #23
    Long Distance Cyclist Machka's Avatar
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    Well, this has been hilarious!!

    I thought I'd try an experiement ... I'd ask some little question and see how long it would be before the insults started flying ..........

    ....... not even a page!!

    Doesn't take much to get the people over in this forum riled up!!!!


    (and from some comments here, I have my suspicions that a lot of people don't ride much outside their immediate local areas)

    Enjoy your weekend rides everyone!! I think some of you need to blow off some steam ... why not try riding some place you've never ridden before ... explore ... see what's out there ... have some fun!!

  24. #24
    totally louche Bekologist's Avatar
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    I've been laughing at machka's silly comments. now she insults the crowd with the 'you don't ride much outside your local areas' business.

    blech.
    "Evidence, anecdote and methodology all support planning for roadway bike traffic."

  25. #25
    Al noisebeam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machka[I
    (and from some comments here, I have my suspicions that a lot of people don't ride much outside their immediate local areas)[/I]
    I wonder if you do?

    (Keep in mind of course based on your ride descriptions I've seen elsewhere I consider the entire country of Canada, err make that North America, to be your immediate local area! Oh, and those short jaunts in Europe and Australia don't count as 'much')

    Al

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