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View Poll Results: Riding on the typical MUP with traffic at roadway speeds ... (SEE OP) ... is ...
Usually not a problem. 9 29.03%
Dangerous. 22 70.97%
Voters: 31. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-12-07, 12:55 PM   #1
Helmet Head
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Riding on the typical MUP at roadway speeds is...

Riding on the typical MUP with significant traffic in the same way that one would ride on the roadway, at equivalent speed and with the expectation that the other traffic would obey the rules of the road for drivers of vehicles, is what?
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Old 06-12-07, 12:58 PM   #2
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Stupid? Dangerous? Asking for trouble? Mean-spirited? Ugly? Pointless? Impossible?
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Old 06-12-07, 01:13 PM   #3
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Here's where Mr. Club Cyclist will pwn himself again. Define road speeds, HH.
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Old 06-12-07, 01:16 PM   #4
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Don't see many cyclist killed on the MUP threads in this forum but I see a lot of cyclist killed by car/SUV threads.
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Old 06-12-07, 01:56 PM   #5
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I'm not answering, in that conditions on MUPs in NYC vary so widely that it's nearly impossible to imagine a "typical" MUP.

For instance, the MUP on the Brooklyn Bridge? That would be both stupid and dangerous to ride at speed (though many people do) as the path is bounded on both sides by waist-high iron fences, is made of wood, hosts thousands of tourists, many of whom are only dimly aware that they're sharing the space with cyclists, and is sufficiently loud that most normal audible signaling is unheard or at least unheeded.

The West Street MUP (parallel to the West Side Highway), though, is largely ridable at normal speeds (around 20mph is decent, I've seen guys much faster than that and others who are slower) because there are parallel paths for pedestrians and wheeled users, everyone on the main wheeled path is aware that it's moving at a quicker pace, the pedestrians (mostly runners) who do venture onto and across the cycling/skating lanes are acutely aware that they're sharing the lane w/bikes and it is well designed & not overcrowded (generally).

And the MUP in Prospect Park, which in truth is really more of an on-street shared accomodation, varies between various states of being, depending largely on time of day and whether motor vehicles are allowed in at all.
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Old 06-12-07, 02:12 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Helmet Head
Riding on the typical MUP with significant traffic in the same way that one would ride on the roadway, at equivalent speed and with the expectation that the other traffic would obey the rules of the road for drivers of vehicles, is what?
Depends on the MUP. The one I ride upon perfect for riding at roadway speed... and I often do.
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Old 06-12-07, 02:14 PM   #7
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hey racer boy, slow down, get a bell and learn how to use it...

ps - I like your shoes!

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Old 06-12-07, 02:16 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by genec
Depends on the MUP. The one I ride upon perfect for riding at roadway speed... and I often do.
Then you are lucky. In nice weather, there's no riding at roadway speeds on the one I use.
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Old 06-12-07, 02:19 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by randya
hey racer boy, slow down, get a bell and learn how to use it...

ps - I like your shoes!

Yeah....the guys with gay shoes need to slow down to about 5 mph.
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Old 06-12-07, 02:28 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Cromulent
Then you are lucky. In nice weather, there's no riding at roadway speeds on the one I use.
So much for "typical" MUP.
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Old 06-12-07, 02:30 PM   #11
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how do you define 'typical'? Anyone have their HeadSpeak Dictionary handy?
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Old 06-12-07, 02:37 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by genec
Depends on the MUP. The one I ride upon perfect for riding at roadway speed... and I often do.
The SR 56 path with it's dearth of peds and low traffic is hardly typical of MUPs, much less with "significant traffic".
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Old 06-12-07, 02:43 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Helmet Head
The SR 56 path with it's dearth of peds and low traffic is hardly typical of MUPs, much less with "significant traffic".
Depends on where you live. In Eastern Michigan it's very typical.
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Old 06-12-07, 03:00 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Helmet Head
The SR 56 path with it's dearth of peds and low traffic is hardly typical of MUPs, much less with "significant traffic".
The only significant traffic I have seen on that MUP were packs of cyclists, moving very fast.

I am afraid if you what to use qualifiers such as "typical" in reference to an MUP or "significant," you are going to have to specify exactly what you have in mind.

To me, the route 56 path is typical, and the numbers I see are significant... cyclists.
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Old 06-12-07, 03:05 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Helmet Head
Riding on the typical MUP with significant traffic in the same way that one would ride on the roadway, at equivalent speed and with the expectation that the other traffic would obey the rules of the road for drivers of vehicles, is what?
Do you have the expectation that pedestrians and bicyclists who are in the roadway will obey the rules of the road for drivers of vehicles?


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Old 06-12-07, 03:11 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertHurst
Do you have the expectation that pedestrians and bicyclists who are in the roadway will obey the rules of the road for drivers of vehicles?
No, I don't, but they usually represent a tiny exceptional percentage of the road users I encounter, and the number of those that are relevant to me and what I'm doing is practically neglible.
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Old 06-12-07, 03:18 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Helmet Head
No, I don't, but they usually represent a tiny exceptional percentage of the road users I encounter, and the number of those that are relevant to me and what I'm doing is practically neglible.
I believe you would mean driving, because that's what you 'typically' do on the road, yes?

Oh, and thank you for clarifying that you don't pay attention to pedestrians and cyclists when you are driving.
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Old 06-12-07, 03:28 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cromulent
Stupid? Dangerous? Asking for trouble? Mean-spirited? Ugly? Pointless? Impossible?
I'd go with the last. Honestly thinking about it the crowdedness of MUPs does not seem to be a bell curve or anything like it. Either almost empty, full or rush hour crowded. The level that I would call significant traffic yet ridable at speed could exist in theory, but I don't recall ever seeing it for any distance.
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Old 06-12-07, 03:38 PM   #19
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A typical MUP for me would be the Metro Parkway MUP that I ride on. Why is it typical to me? Because it resembles every other MUP in this area, hence typical.
And being a typical MUP it has a speed limit of 15mph. So would riding the road speed on this MUP be dangerous or not? Well, it'd definately be illegal. But as for the dangerous part we'd have to examine what "road speed" is. the road it runs beside is Metro Parkway, a 50-55mph parkway. Obviously no cyclist is going to go that fast on this MUP, considering it is f_l_a_t! The other roads it encounters other than major 55mph arteries are the 25mph residential streets. I cover about 12 miles of the MUP every day and encounter no more than half a dozen people on it (walking and biking). And on a 10-12ft wide striped MUP with less than 1 person per 2 miles that is so flat you can see for 2 miles ahead of you easily then I say there is no problem at riding the road speed of 25mph on it. And that my friend, is typical.
But really, how many daily commuters ride 25mph on their commute?
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Old 06-12-07, 03:45 PM   #20
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But really, how many daily commuters ride 25mph on their commute?
Serge and his buds......in their dreams.

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Old 06-12-07, 04:58 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pj7
But really, how many daily commuters ride 25mph on their commute?
There are two downhill sections where I often ride 25 or more mph on my to work (0.8 miles and 0.6 miles in length), and three sections on the way home (0.5 mi, 0.6 mi, 1.7 mi). And that's on a pretty short, but hilly, route (6 mi each way).
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Old 06-12-07, 05:07 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cromulent
Stupid? Dangerous? Asking for trouble? Mean-spirited? Ugly? Pointless? Impossible?
All of the above.
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Old 06-12-07, 05:47 PM   #23
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All of the above.
Not just repeating the VC conventional wisdom are ya? Are you sure if you have ever cycled on one, or even seen one in your journeys?
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Old 06-12-07, 05:48 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Helmet Head
There are two downhill sections where I often ride 25 or more mph on my to work (0.8 miles and 0.6 miles in length), and three sections on the way home (0.5 mi, 0.6 mi, 1.7 mi). And that's on a pretty short, but hilly, route (6 mi each way).
Reaching 25mph and maintaining 25mph are two different things. And these sections you are talking about are on roads right, not on an MUP that might avoid these hills in the first place.
But the ammount of time you are at or above 25mph is probably less than 90 seconds anyhow.
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Old 06-12-07, 05:59 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Helmet Head
Riding on the typical MUP with significant traffic in the same way that one would ride on the roadway, at equivalent speed and with the expectation that the other traffic would obey the rules of the road for drivers of vehicles, is what?
This question is meaningless, what is a typical MUP? under what rules?
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