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View Poll Results: Riding on the typical MUP with traffic at roadway speeds ... (SEE OP) ... is ...

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  • Usually not a problem.

    9 29.03%
  • Dangerous.

    22 70.97%
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  1. #1
    Banned. Helmet Head's Avatar
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    Riding on the typical MUP at roadway speeds is...

    Riding on the typical MUP with significant traffic in the same way that one would ride on the roadway, at equivalent speed and with the expectation that the other traffic would obey the rules of the road for drivers of vehicles, is what?

  2. #2
    I'm fine. Cromulent's Avatar
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    Stupid? Dangerous? Asking for trouble? Mean-spirited? Ugly? Pointless? Impossible?

  3. #3
    your nightmare gal chipcom's Avatar
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    Here's where Mr. Club Cyclist will pwn himself again. Define road speeds, HH.
    "Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey

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    Senior Member Denny Koll's Avatar
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    Don't see many cyclist killed on the MUP threads in this forum but I see a lot of cyclist killed by car/SUV threads.

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    I'm not answering, in that conditions on MUPs in NYC vary so widely that it's nearly impossible to imagine a "typical" MUP.

    For instance, the MUP on the Brooklyn Bridge? That would be both stupid and dangerous to ride at speed (though many people do) as the path is bounded on both sides by waist-high iron fences, is made of wood, hosts thousands of tourists, many of whom are only dimly aware that they're sharing the space with cyclists, and is sufficiently loud that most normal audible signaling is unheard or at least unheeded.

    The West Street MUP (parallel to the West Side Highway), though, is largely ridable at normal speeds (around 20mph is decent, I've seen guys much faster than that and others who are slower) because there are parallel paths for pedestrians and wheeled users, everyone on the main wheeled path is aware that it's moving at a quicker pace, the pedestrians (mostly runners) who do venture onto and across the cycling/skating lanes are acutely aware that they're sharing the lane w/bikes and it is well designed & not overcrowded (generally).

    And the MUP in Prospect Park, which in truth is really more of an on-street shared accomodation, varies between various states of being, depending largely on time of day and whether motor vehicles are allowed in at all.

  6. #6
    genec genec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helmet Head
    Riding on the typical MUP with significant traffic in the same way that one would ride on the roadway, at equivalent speed and with the expectation that the other traffic would obey the rules of the road for drivers of vehicles, is what?
    Depends on the MUP. The one I ride upon perfect for riding at roadway speed... and I often do.

  7. #7
    Senior Member randya's Avatar
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    hey racer boy, slow down, get a bell and learn how to use it...

    ps - I like your shoes!


  8. #8
    I'm fine. Cromulent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by genec
    Depends on the MUP. The one I ride upon perfect for riding at roadway speed... and I often do.
    Then you are lucky. In nice weather, there's no riding at roadway speeds on the one I use.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Denny Koll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by randya
    hey racer boy, slow down, get a bell and learn how to use it...

    ps - I like your shoes!

    Yeah....the guys with gay shoes need to slow down to about 5 mph.

  10. #10
    genec genec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cromulent
    Then you are lucky. In nice weather, there's no riding at roadway speeds on the one I use.
    So much for "typical" MUP.

  11. #11
    Senior Member randya's Avatar
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    how do you define 'typical'? Anyone have their HeadSpeak Dictionary handy?

  12. #12
    Banned. Helmet Head's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by genec
    Depends on the MUP. The one I ride upon perfect for riding at roadway speed... and I often do.
    The SR 56 path with it's dearth of peds and low traffic is hardly typical of MUPs, much less with "significant traffic".

  13. #13
    Senior Member Denny Koll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helmet Head
    The SR 56 path with it's dearth of peds and low traffic is hardly typical of MUPs, much less with "significant traffic".
    Depends on where you live. In Eastern Michigan it's very typical.

  14. #14
    genec genec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helmet Head
    The SR 56 path with it's dearth of peds and low traffic is hardly typical of MUPs, much less with "significant traffic".
    The only significant traffic I have seen on that MUP were packs of cyclists, moving very fast.

    I am afraid if you what to use qualifiers such as "typical" in reference to an MUP or "significant," you are going to have to specify exactly what you have in mind.

    To me, the route 56 path is typical, and the numbers I see are significant... cyclists.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helmet Head
    Riding on the typical MUP with significant traffic in the same way that one would ride on the roadway, at equivalent speed and with the expectation that the other traffic would obey the rules of the road for drivers of vehicles, is what?
    Do you have the expectation that pedestrians and bicyclists who are in the roadway will obey the rules of the road for drivers of vehicles?


    Robert

  16. #16
    Banned. Helmet Head's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobertHurst
    Do you have the expectation that pedestrians and bicyclists who are in the roadway will obey the rules of the road for drivers of vehicles?
    No, I don't, but they usually represent a tiny exceptional percentage of the road users I encounter, and the number of those that are relevant to me and what I'm doing is practically neglible.

  17. #17
    Senior Member randya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helmet Head
    No, I don't, but they usually represent a tiny exceptional percentage of the road users I encounter, and the number of those that are relevant to me and what I'm doing is practically neglible.
    I believe you would mean driving, because that's what you 'typically' do on the road, yes?

    Oh, and thank you for clarifying that you don't pay attention to pedestrians and cyclists when you are driving.

  18. #18
    Senior Member Keith99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cromulent
    Stupid? Dangerous? Asking for trouble? Mean-spirited? Ugly? Pointless? Impossible?
    I'd go with the last. Honestly thinking about it the crowdedness of MUPs does not seem to be a bell curve or anything like it. Either almost empty, full or rush hour crowded. The level that I would call significant traffic yet ridable at speed could exist in theory, but I don't recall ever seeing it for any distance.

  19. #19
    pj7
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    A typical MUP for me would be the Metro Parkway MUP that I ride on. Why is it typical to me? Because it resembles every other MUP in this area, hence typical.
    And being a typical MUP it has a speed limit of 15mph. So would riding the road speed on this MUP be dangerous or not? Well, it'd definately be illegal. But as for the dangerous part we'd have to examine what "road speed" is. the road it runs beside is Metro Parkway, a 50-55mph parkway. Obviously no cyclist is going to go that fast on this MUP, considering it is f_l_a_t! The other roads it encounters other than major 55mph arteries are the 25mph residential streets. I cover about 12 miles of the MUP every day and encounter no more than half a dozen people on it (walking and biking). And on a 10-12ft wide striped MUP with less than 1 person per 2 miles that is so flat you can see for 2 miles ahead of you easily then I say there is no problem at riding the road speed of 25mph on it. And that my friend, is typical.
    But really, how many daily commuters ride 25mph on their commute?
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  20. #20
    Senior Member randya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pj7
    But really, how many daily commuters ride 25mph on their commute?
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  21. #21
    Banned. Helmet Head's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pj7
    But really, how many daily commuters ride 25mph on their commute?
    There are two downhill sections where I often ride 25 or more mph on my to work (0.8 miles and 0.6 miles in length), and three sections on the way home (0.5 mi, 0.6 mi, 1.7 mi). And that's on a pretty short, but hilly, route (6 mi each way).

  22. #22
    Long Distance Cyclist Machka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cromulent
    Stupid? Dangerous? Asking for trouble? Mean-spirited? Ugly? Pointless? Impossible?
    All of the above.

  23. #23
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machka
    All of the above.
    Not just repeating the VC conventional wisdom are ya? Are you sure if you have ever cycled on one, or even seen one in your journeys?

  24. #24
    pj7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helmet Head
    There are two downhill sections where I often ride 25 or more mph on my to work (0.8 miles and 0.6 miles in length), and three sections on the way home (0.5 mi, 0.6 mi, 1.7 mi). And that's on a pretty short, but hilly, route (6 mi each way).
    Reaching 25mph and maintaining 25mph are two different things. And these sections you are talking about are on roads right, not on an MUP that might avoid these hills in the first place.
    But the ammount of time you are at or above 25mph is probably less than 90 seconds anyhow.
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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helmet Head
    Riding on the typical MUP with significant traffic in the same way that one would ride on the roadway, at equivalent speed and with the expectation that the other traffic would obey the rules of the road for drivers of vehicles, is what?
    This question is meaningless, what is a typical MUP? under what rules?
    “A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.” Robert A. Heinlein

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