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Vehicular Cycling (VC) No other subject has polarized the A&S members like VC has. Here's a place to share, debate, and educate.

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Old 06-16-07, 08:27 AM   #1
Bekologist
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VC and bike lanes are not mutually exclusive

just wanted to put it out there.

a bicyclist can ride vehicularily on a road with a bike lane.

speed positioning of slower traffic keep right is one of the tenets of vehicular cycling; a road with a well provided bike lane can be ridden in vehicularily.

a side benefit of bike lanes is they increase road cycling and discourage sidewalk cycling. more road cyclists will increase the cognification of bicyclists.

on streets with bike lanes in my city (3rd in the nation for bike commuting, US census bureau) drivers are much more aware of cyclists at turns and are aware bikes may be on the road using the bike lanes. the bike lanes have likely increased cycling and cyclist safety along the roads with the bike lanes.

another benefit of bike lanes is they encourage a more visible lane position than wide outside lanes alone.

vehicular cyclists can ride vehicularily in a bike lane. a bike lane network can be used by a vehicular cyclist. a bike lane network encourages bicycling in communities.

vc and bike lanes are not mutually exclusive.
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Old 06-16-07, 06:05 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bekologist
my city (3rd in the nation for bike commuting, US census bureau)
Care to show the data? The 2005 ACS says differently as far as modal split is concerned.
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Old 06-16-07, 06:35 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Bekologist
just wanted to put it out there.
I think you have, ad nauseum in fact.

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Old 06-16-07, 08:52 PM   #4
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you can't handle the truth. It's an important point, yet one dismissed as 'not relevant' by ol' mossy john because it's such a disarming truth to his autocentric POV.

CBHI, it was just released US Census Bureau data. I'm not going to source it out for you, why should I? You're so strongly anti-accomodationalist I see no point in doing some legwork for something the US Government has available as public knowledge.

and our Mayor is shooting for more bicyclists on the roads, to surpass Portland's mode splits....guess what the plan is? Bike accomodations, bike lanes, bike boulevards, sharrows, etc....

BIKE SPECIFIC INFRASTRUCTURE AND BICYCLING ENHANCEMENTS TO PUBLIC RIGHTS OF WAY that vehicular cyclists can take advantage of.

~Because, remember......VC and bike lanes are not mutually exclusive.
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Old 06-16-07, 09:22 PM   #5
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you can't handle the truth.
Bek,

If this is directed at me, then you simply can't handle reading comprehension. I have never been anti facility. I don't even consider myself VC, in that I haven't ever read any books on the subject.

And I am not attempting to refute anything you have said above. I just get a laugh out of the fact that I can come back to this forum 3-6-9 months later and see the same skipping record.

Maybe if you all just stayed away the whole VC board would dry up. Kinda like how the regular A&S board has done since everyone moved here.

-D
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Old 06-16-07, 09:29 PM   #6
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sorry, derath, i don't like the fallacies presented by some of the usual suspect damnifying community bike infrastructure.

I'm VC and pro-accomodation. some of the foresterites like to pretend this is a contradiction, but it is not.

VC and bike lanes are not mutually exclusive
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Old 06-16-07, 09:36 PM   #7
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Bek,

Like I said, "IF" that comment was directed at me. If not then I have no beef with you. I just get a kick out of these forums. This forum is mostly useful for entertainment value and little more anyway.

So go have some fun.

-D
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Old 06-16-07, 09:56 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bekologist
a side benefit of bike lanes is they increase road cycling and discourage sidewalk cycling....
I hope this is true, but I see as many cyclists riding on the sidewalk when there is a parallel bike lane. I think a lot of people don't want to ride in the street, bike lane or no.

Maybe there is also some kind of public education in your area, encouraging people to ride in the streets that have bike lanes?
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Old 06-16-07, 10:05 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by derath
Bek,

Like I said, "IF" that comment was directed at me. If not then I have no beef with you. I just get a kick out of these forums. This forum is mostly useful for entertainment value and little more anyway.

So go have some fun.


-D
What i really find entertaining is your aristocratic attitude that the little forum peasants are so amusing with their quaint little forum antics.

If you want to contribute substantively to the discussion we could probably learn from your superior intellect. Otherwise, you'd probably be happier with a forum where the participants meet your high academic standards.

I may disagree with nearly every word Bekologist says, but he's 1000 times your superior when it comes to adding value to this forum.
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Old 06-16-07, 10:23 PM   #10
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What i really find entertaining is your aristocratic attitude that the little forum peasants are so amusing with their quaint little forum antics.
You misunderstand. I see you all as little peasants. No it is more like those cute little furry [insert pet name here] that runs around and around and around on one of those wheels. You can leave the room for awhile and come back and sure enough, it will still be running in that wheel.

You could literally roll this forum back a month or 2 and it would look pretty much the same.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roody
If you want to contribute substantively to the discussion we could probably learn from your superior intellect. Otherwise, you'd probably be happier with a forum where the participants meet your high academic standards.
I have long since given up attempting to have a "discussion" here. Practically every thread I have participated in the past in this vein isn't a "discussion" It was 2 sides standing their ground and yelling at the other. A few in the middle would try to find common ground and they would get trampled. I got tired of getting trampled.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roody
I may disagree with nearly every word Bekologist says, but he's 1000 times your superior when it comes to adding value to this forum.
Yes he has his moments. But hey, if you count Bek's signature taglines that he throws into every reply over and over and over... and over a contribution, I guess that is probably on the order of 1000 times or so.

[edit] Oh yea, I remember the one I was gonna use. One of my personal Bek favorites.

"VC and the Ragin Cagers..."

Yea that takes me back.

-D
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Old 06-16-07, 10:27 PM   #11
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thanks, derath. you make such a meaningful contribution here.
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Old 06-16-07, 10:31 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Bekologist
thanks, derath. you make such a meaningful contribution here.
Hey I'm keeping your thread at the top of the page aren't I? Even keeping the thread count climbing so it looks like it is worth a read. Your welcome...

VC AND THE RAGIN CAGERS!

-D
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Old 06-17-07, 08:17 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by derath
I have long since given up attempting to have a "discussion" here. Practically every thread I have participated in the past in this vein isn't a "discussion" It was 2 sides standing their ground and yelling at the other. A few in the middle would try to find common ground and they would get trampled. I got tired of getting trampled.
-D
And you find it amusing to be part of the problem while pretending to be so much above the problem.
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Old 06-17-07, 09:12 AM   #14
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Derath, that's typical of any polarizing issue. Shooting a hotfoot into the thread though doesn't contribute.

I know it's tempting and have been guilty of it myself in the past. It doesn't help though.
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Old 06-17-07, 12:04 PM   #15
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VC and Bike lanes are not mutually exclusive! here in Denver Visiting my folks, I have seen numerous cyclists using bike lanes. bike lanes are all over the place here.
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Old 06-17-07, 01:00 PM   #16
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You are right on, Bek. VC and bike lanes are definitely the way it's done. I think they help get people off the sidewalk. A little education is still needed for people to understand the destination positioning thing, but the bike lanes don't prevent people from doing it once they learn about it. As for the motorists, I think they understand that bikes belong when you have a lot of bike lanes and I don't see that they make them think anything negative in particular that they wouldn't already be thinking, with or without the bike lanes.
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Old 06-17-07, 03:24 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Bekologist
CBHI, it was just released US Census Bureau data. I'm not going to source it out for you, why should I? ...
You won't source it out because you are wrong and it appears you know it.

With minimum effort, I found 4 cities that are higher than Seattle and I only looked at 10 cities.
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Old 06-17-07, 03:47 PM   #18
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It's not central to my post.

i've just read the figures, it was a newspaper article based on US Census stats released wednesday... '3rd in the nation among large cities in bicycle commuting'

Point of post IS:

" vehicular cyclists can ride vehicularily in a bike lane. a bike lane network can be used by a vehicular cyclist. a bike lane network encourages bicycling in communities."

vc and bike lanes are not mutually exclusive.
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Old 06-17-07, 04:29 PM   #19
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San Jose, CA has painted a whole bunch of bike lanes for many years, that they are very proud of. But San Jose is only at 0.4% modal split - same as the national average.

http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet...mat=&-_lang=en

I started my bicycle commuting in 1982 when i lived there. No bike lanes, but a nice town to ride in.
San Jose painted bike lanes and did nothing else, cyclist modal split did not increase.
Portland painted a few bike lanes but also did a big education program for cyclist and motorist as well as other incentives. Cycling went up.

Conclusuion = bike lanes do little to nothing to increase cycling modal split.

Last edited by CB HI; 06-17-07 at 10:34 PM.
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Old 06-17-07, 04:33 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Bekologist
It's not central to my post.

i've just read the figures, it was a newspaper article based on US Census stats released wednesday... '3rd in the nation among large cities in bicycle commuting'
Yet you posted it with pride!
Sure, blame it on some unnamed newspaper!
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Old 06-17-07, 04:41 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Bekologist
"vehicular cyclists can ride vehicularily in a bike lane. ...
How do you ride VC in the bike lane that goes right up to the stop line, next to a combined through and right turn lane, at an intersection?
Best VC position in center of the travel lane to prevent the right hook, and staying in the bike lane results in a right hook.
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Old 06-17-07, 04:49 PM   #22
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"can" not "must" - what a pedantic screwjob you are, CBHI.

a vehicular cyclist can ride, vehicularily, in a bike lane.

" vehicular cyclists can ride vehicularily in a bike lane. a bike lane network can be used by a vehicular cyclist. a bike lane network encourages bicycling in communities."
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Old 06-17-07, 04:51 PM   #23
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Except when the bike lane will not allow the cyclist to ride VC. As many bike lanes do!
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Old 06-17-07, 08:20 PM   #24
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and many bike lanes allow safe vehicular operation within them, until a cyclist needs to leave the lane for destination positioning or to avoid a hazard. standard operating practice.


a vehicular cyclist can use a bike lane vehicularily. a bike lane network can be utilized by a vehicular cyclist.
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Old 06-17-07, 08:26 PM   #25
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and many bike lanes allow safe vehicular operation within them, until a cyclist needs to leave the lane for destination positioning or to avoid a hazard. standard operating practice.


a vehicular cyclist can use a bike lane vehicularily. a bike lane network can be utilized by a vehicular cyclist
.
So I guess you really mean that "a vehicular cyclist can use some bike lanes vehicularly."
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