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Vehicular Cycling (VC) No other subject has polarized the A&S members like VC has. Here's a place to share, debate, and educate.

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Old 06-17-07, 08:09 PM   #1
Roody
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Outsider's view of the bike lane debate: "One guy ruined it for all the other guys."

A friend at work--a non-cyclist--attended a city planning meeting for East Lansing, MI. This was his account of the meeting, as near to how he said it as I can manage:
A bunch of bike guys were at the meeting and they'd been trying to get the city to put a bike lane on Hagadorn Rd. You know, that's a busy road and the bike guys don't like to ride on it. The city had finally agreed in principle to do it.

But this one bike guy was at the meeting. This guy always rides in the car lanes. He's some kind of fanatic or something. Even when he's riding on Abbot Rd. where they already have a bike lane, he refuses to ride in it. He has to ride in the car lane and he's always holding up the traffic. I got behind him one time and he really pissed me off.

Anyway, he was arguing that they shouldn't have any bike lanes anywhere in the city. This one guy thinks the bikes should just ride wherever they want to, even if they're getting in the way of the cars. Like I said, he's some kind of fanatic, I guess. So the city scrapped the whole plan to put in a bike lane on Hagadorn. Now they're talking about not putting any bike lanes in the whole city. So, all the other bike guys were yelling and shouting at this one bike guy. One guy ruined it for everybody.
It was fascinating to hear one outsider's view of this whole debate. I think I was more confused about the bike lane issue after I heard this.
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Old 06-17-07, 08:14 PM   #2
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yep, sounds like a rabid foresterite getting in the way of increasing bike infrastructure in communities.

the foresterites should be ashamed of themselves. our local 'advocate' stoops to talking to radio shock jockeys about mandatory cyclist liscensing.

I've seen him riding on the MUP's to get around town - what a hypocrite.
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Old 06-17-07, 08:23 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roody
A friend at work--a non-cyclist--attended a city planning meeting for East Lansing, MI. This was his account of the meeting, as near to how he said it as I can manage:
A bunch of bike guys were at the meeting and they'd been trying to get the city to put a bike lane on Hagadorn Rd. You know, that's a busy road and the bike guys don't like to ride on it. The city had finally agreed in principle to do it.

But this one bike guy was at the meeting. This guy always rides in the car lanes. He's some kind of fanatic or something. Even when he's riding on Abbot Rd. where they already have a bike lane, he refuses to ride in it. He has to ride in the car lane and he's always holding up the traffic. I got behind him one time and he really pissed me off.

Anyway, he was arguing that they shouldn't have any bike lanes anywhere in the city. This one guy thinks the bikes should just ride wherever they want to, even if they're getting in the way of the cars. Like I said, he's some kind of fanatic, I guess. So the city scrapped the whole plan to put in a bike lane on Hagadorn. Now they're talking about not putting any bike lanes in the whole city. So, all the other bike guys were yelling and shouting at this one bike guy. One guy ruined it for everybody.
It was fascinating to hear one outsider's view of this whole debate. I think I was more confused about the bike lane issue after I heard this.
Hagadorn runs right beside MSU campus and there is a lot of bike traffic on campus. Seems like a great place for a bike lane and great tiiming since it is under construction right now.

Too bad that bonehead cyclist was too self absorbed to see that the world extends beyond him and his theories....what a shame.
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Old 06-17-07, 08:33 PM   #4
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being that vehicular cyclists can use a bike lane in a vehicular manner, and bike lanes and vehicular cycling are not mutually exclusive, i'd say the anti-accomodationalists don't have a pot to piss in.

the rabid, foresterite anti-accomodationalists should be ashamed of themselves.
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Old 06-17-07, 08:35 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denny Koll
Hagadorn runs right beside MSU campus and there is a lot of bike traffic on campus. Seems like a great place for a bike lane and great tiiming since it is under construction right now.

Too bad that bonehead cyclist was too self absorbed to see that the world extends beyond him and his theories....what a shame
.
Keep in mind that this was my friend's recollection of the meeting. I doubt if East Lansing will actually base their alternative transportation policy on the opinions of one cyclist.

Do you happen to know what accommodations for cyclists will be made on the new Hagadorn bridge over the Red Cedar River, just south of the Grand River Ave. intersection?
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Old 06-17-07, 08:37 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roody
Keep in mind that this was my friend's recollection of the meeting. I doubt if East Lansing will actually base their alternative transportation policy on the opinions of one cyclist.

Do you happen to know what accommodations for cyclists will be made on the new Hagadorn bridge over the Red Cedar River, just south of the Grand River Ave. intersection?
No..I don't know. I'm not from Lansing but my daughter attends MSU.
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Old 06-17-07, 09:10 PM   #7
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So motorist do believe bike lanes are there to get cyclist out of their way. And if the cyclist is not in the designated place they should be in, the motorist gets all pissed off.
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Old 06-17-07, 09:13 PM   #8
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Everyone hates him, yet, this one simple cyclist destroyed the whole plan. Imagine the power he has!
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Old 06-17-07, 09:15 PM   #9
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interesting...
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Old 06-17-07, 09:16 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roody
It was fascinating to hear one outsider's view of this whole debate. I think I was more confused about the bike lane issue after I heard this.
Motorist are not really outsiders. Many cyclist have known for a very long time that bike lanes were invented to get cyclist off the road and out of motorist way.
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Old 06-17-07, 09:16 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by CB HI
So motorist do believe bike lanes are there to get cyclist out of their way. And if the cyclist is not in the designated place they should be in, the motorist gets all pissed off.
Motorists often fail to appreciate effects of the glass and gravel that so often comes with a bike lane stripe; meanwhile, bike lane advocates often fail to appreciate the effects of increased pavement width when it comes without one.
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Old 06-17-07, 09:19 PM   #12
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Motorists often fail to appreciate effects of the glass and gravel that so often comes with a bike lane stripe; meanwhile, bike lane advocates often fail to appreciate the effects of increased pavement width when it comes without one.
So true, Steven, so true!
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Old 06-17-07, 09:39 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by CB HI
Motorist are not really outsiders. Many cyclist have known for a very long time that bike lanes were invented to get cyclist off the road and out of motorist way.
I don't know why bike lanes were invented. But most people assume they were invented in order to scoot bikes out of the way. About the only people who don't think that are the cycling advocates.
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Old 06-17-07, 10:04 PM   #14
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I would refine you classification as the "bike lane cycling advocates".
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Old 06-17-07, 10:10 PM   #15
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more like 'populist infrastructure cycling advocates'

anti-accomodationalists are anti-populist.
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Old 06-17-07, 11:02 PM   #16
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As has been repeatedly pointed out to you, the only facilities VC'ers oppose are:
dangerous bike lanes
and those bike path designs that are dangerous to cyclist.

Amazing how you have such a hard time comprehending such a simple statement.
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Old 06-17-07, 11:05 PM   #17
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sounds like this guy in East Lansing was an "obstructionist", dude.

an "anti-accomodation" foresterite.
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Old 06-17-07, 11:09 PM   #18
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The dog chasing his tail again.
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Old 06-17-07, 11:13 PM   #19
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what ARE you talking about?

the fool at the East Lansing council meeting definetly sounds like a foresterite 'obstructionist'. inadverdanetly keeping bikes down by insisting in autocentrism.

the foresterite obstructionists should be ashamed of themselves. vehicular cyclists can ride in a bike lane. vehicular cyclists can take advantage of bike lane networks in communities.
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Old 06-18-07, 06:01 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Bekologist
what ARE you talking about?

the fool at the East Lansing council meeting definetly sounds like a foresterite 'obstructionist'. inadverdanetly keeping bikes down by insisting in autocentrism.

the foresterite obstructionists should be ashamed of themselves. vehicular cyclists can ride in a bike lane. vehicular cyclists can take advantage of bike lane networks in communities.

There was a thread a few months ago regarding a forum member who was opposed to building a MUP close to her home. It would be used by "Freds" and older slower cyclists. According to her these folks "should be" riding in the road...and an MUP would force her off the road.

A bike lane might not be the same but the thinking is similar. Less choices for other less important cyclists because it doesn't fit the agenda.
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Old 06-18-07, 06:12 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by CB HI
The dog chasing his tail again.
Can you please explain how his comment was like a dog chasing its tail? I've seen you use this phrase before and it didn't make sense then either.
as far as I can tell, it is the VC advocates that resemble a dog chasing its tail. No matter how much preaching, complaining, "advocating" and belittleing they do, bike lanes still get built and cyclists want to use them. So the VC advocates are getting nowhere, hence, dog chasing its tail.
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Old 06-18-07, 07:32 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by CB HI
Many cyclist have known for a very long time that bike lanes were invented to get cyclist off the road and out of motorist way.
A cycling facility that gets me out of the way of a motorist that may or may not be sober/drugged/competent/roadworthy(vehichle)/texting/fixing makeup/reading the paper/tuning the radio/a million other distractions other than concentrating on the road ahead?

Sounds like a great idea to me.
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Old 06-18-07, 08:11 AM   #23
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This so called 'fanantic' does not sound like a vehicular cyclist. Most VCists will move aside when safe and practical to let faster traffic pass.

It is also telling that the person who relayed the story called the vehicular lanes "car lanes"

Al
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Old 06-18-07, 08:32 AM   #24
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This so called 'fanantic' does not sound like a vehicular cyclist. Most VCists will move aside when safe and practical to let faster traffic pass.

It is also telling that the person who relayed the story called the vehicular lanes "car lanes"

Al
The cyclist who was riding outside the bike lane probably wasn't even taking the lane. Staying just an inch outside the bike lane to avoid debris is enough to set off some motorists.
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Old 06-18-07, 08:37 AM   #25
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What is/was the proposal for the bike lane?

-Adding more pavement width for the added bike lane?
-Adding a stripe with no other lane changes? (changing a wide lane into a narrow lane with a bike lane)
-Removing a 'vehicular lane' and striping a bike lane? (i.e. 'road diet')

Al
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