What if?
#26
Dubito ergo sum.
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Originally Posted by genec
I honestly have to question that... While one would think those factors are evaluated... how does that explain increasing the speed of a road without modifying any of the above factors.
How does road design explain 55MPH speed limits on narrow coast hiways with hairpin turns?
How does road design explain 55MPH speed limits on narrow coast hiways with hairpin turns?
I don't claim to speak internationally (unlike many people online ) all I can say is that here roads ARE built to a specific speed standard, and I don't recall the speed limits ever being increased on any local or regional road.
#27
Senior Member
What would be the ideal intersection set up? Would roundabouts be the preferred design?
#28
Dubito ergo sum.
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Originally Posted by noisebeam
Good thinking. As a minor adustment I'd hope in this fantasy world that primary (bike highway/arterial) roads would be designed for 30mph (~50kph) instead and even higher speeds for downhills.
Al
Al
I'd assume such a system would have a range of design speeds, depending on the road type, but I think 40km/hr is more likely than 100. (40 km/hr is our design standard for MUPs, BTW.)
While I don't think a shift to a system designed primarily for bikes is likely, I do think a shift away from car-centric design is, in fact I see it happening now in subtle ways. Right now I see it more as mindset than physical reality - every study or proposal for local road construction now explicitly considers cycling and walking, as well as HOV and transit lanes. Ditto all "official plans". Clearly our engineers, elected officials, and consultants no longer consider it socially acceptable to do otherwise. Consideration does not always translate to the final plans, but it is a step in the right direction.
I am also seeing a great deal of opposition to road-widening projects. People, particularly in high density areas, are starting to object to losing yet more space to roadways. Again this is only a first step - they don't want more roads, but have not yet bought into the idea of cutting back on road use. One step at a time, though.
#29
genec
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Originally Posted by patc
Irresponsible design? Politically motivated changes?
I don't claim to speak internationally (unlike many people online ) all I can say is that here roads ARE built to a specific speed standard, and I don't recall the speed limits ever being increased on any local or regional road.
I don't claim to speak internationally (unlike many people online ) all I can say is that here roads ARE built to a specific speed standard, and I don't recall the speed limits ever being increased on any local or regional road.
Down here in the states... especially in the crazy state of California, they build the roads and then wait to see how fast people drive, and then tack on a sign. Doesn't matter how safe the drivers are, or what the sightlines are... what matters is that no one gets in the way of the almighty auto. There are actually provisions to modify the speed based on what 85% of the motorists are doing... so if the motorists choose to go bumper to bumper at 55 MPH... hey, that's the road speed. (not quite as simple as that... but the results do tend to end up that strange)
The funny (sad ironic) thing is that if you put most folks in a car with windows rolled up and air conditioned with power steering and power brakes... they have a tendency to be disconnected from the actual driving environment and over drive (drive beyond the sight lines). But hey, no matter... roads are for cars, right?
Last edited by genec; 06-28-07 at 12:00 PM.
#30
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Originally Posted by Tom Stormcrowe
Sports car owners?
Does anybody come back and say... gee, ya think the speed limit is set too high on that road? Naaaaa.
Locally I have two roads that are surface streets with speed limits at 60 and 65 MPH respectively... they both parallel freeways... (within a 1/4 mile) with speed limits set at 65MPH. So why is a surface street, with driveways, and intersections set at the same speed as a freeway? And if I can ride a bike on those surface streets (which both have BL) why can't I ride a bike on a freeway? Many other arterial roads have speed limits set at 50MPH. (as if motorists only went 50... )
Yeah... common sense kinda goes out the window there, eh?
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65 mph SPEED LIMIT on an arterial road That's messed.
I mean, some people here DRIVE that fast on surface streets with 60 and 70 KM/hr limits, but to make it official?
I mean, some people here DRIVE that fast on surface streets with 60 and 70 KM/hr limits, but to make it official?
#32
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Originally Posted by ghettocruiser
65 mph SPEED LIMIT on an arterial road That's messed.
I mean, some people here DRIVE that fast on surface streets with 60 and 70 KM/hr limits, but to make it official?
I mean, some people here DRIVE that fast on surface streets with 60 and 70 KM/hr limits, but to make it official?
#33
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What if at all intersections, bikes never had to stop but cars always had to stop? This is the reality (not a legal reality but an actual one) in one local burg, and it actually works very well. Unless you're a hot-head or a policeman.
#34
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I want bikes to stop for my sake.
Some of my closest calls have been from other cyclists running stop signs.
Al
Some of my closest calls have been from other cyclists running stop signs.
Al
#35
Dubito ergo sum.
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Originally Posted by genec
Hmmm you mean you guys up in the great white north actually plan these things?
#36
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I'm glad to see you posting again, Pat.
#37
Part-time epistemologist
I think that overall, it would be a negative outcome. Cars, trucks, and so on, are good at a lot of things. Moreover, cycling isn't the easiest activity for a lot of individuals. Just consider the elderly, the young, and the infirm. Nor is it the optimal mode of transportation for many circumstances/activities.
#38
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Originally Posted by joejack951
I'm glad to see you posting again, Pat.
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Originally Posted by genec
Really... they manage to deliver food just fine using very narrow vehicles in places like the Latin Quarter in Paris France, where no regular car will fit.
As an aside I did happen to hear of one place where there is no motor traffic... North Korea. The pronoucement of this situation came from a UN visitor just the other day on NPR. No traffic... if that was what you really desired.
Here is a travelogue by someone else on a trip to NK outlining the same situation:
https://www.travel-library.com/asia/n...ip.bakker.html
As an aside I did happen to hear of one place where there is no motor traffic... North Korea. The pronoucement of this situation came from a UN visitor just the other day on NPR. No traffic... if that was what you really desired.
Here is a travelogue by someone else on a trip to NK outlining the same situation:
https://www.travel-library.com/asia/n...ip.bakker.html
As for the Parisian area mentioned above, just what is the length of the trips made by these vehicles that are narrower than cars, and from what mode do these vehicles acquire their loads? As the American truckers say, if there's food in your grocery store, it is there because a truck brought it. I find that one reason that the anti-motorists advance silly arguments is that they fail to understand the utility of motor transportation. And, of course, to suit their ideology, if I mention it I am an evil motoring advocate. There are those on this list who insist that I start to understand modern thought; it appears to me that I am the one who does, while they are stuck back in the streetcar era.
#40
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Originally Posted by John Forester
And how many of us would want to live in North Korea? Maybe some of you bicycle advocates should move there? As some others of us have commented, either love this nation or leave it.