patc

Irresponsible design? Politically motivated changes?

I don't claim to speak internationally (unlike many people online ) all I can say is that here roads ARE built to a specific speed standard, and I don't recall the speed limits ever being increased on any local or regional road.

joejack951

What would be the ideal intersection set up? Would roundabouts be the preferred design?

patc

I'd assume such a system would have a range of design speeds, depending on the road type, but I think 40km/hr is more likely than 100. (40 km/hr is our design standard for MUPs, BTW.)

While I don't think a shift to a system designed primarily for bikes is likely, I do think a shift away from car-centric design is, in fact I see it happening now in subtle ways. Right now I see it more as mindset than physical reality - every study or proposal for local road construction now explicitly considers cycling and walking, as well as HOV and transit lanes. Ditto all "official plans". Clearly our engineers, elected officials, and consultants no longer consider it socially acceptable to do otherwise. Consideration does not always translate to the final plans, but it is a step in the right direction.

I am also seeing a great deal of opposition to road-widening projects. People, particularly in high density areas, are starting to object to losing yet more space to roadways. Again this is only a first step - they don't want more roads, but have not yet bought into the idea of cutting back on road use. One step at a time, though.

genec

Hmmm you mean you guys up in the great white north actually plan these things?

Down here in the states... especially in the crazy state of California, they build the roads and then wait to see how fast people drive, and then tack on a sign. Doesn't matter how safe the drivers are, or what the sightlines are... what matters is that no one gets in the way of the almighty auto. There are actually provisions to modify the speed based on what 85% of the motorists are doing... so if the motorists choose to go bumper to bumper at 55 MPH... hey, that's the road speed. (not quite as simple as that... but the results do tend to end up that strange)

The funny (sad ironic) thing is that if you put most folks in a car with windows rolled up and air conditioned with power steering and power brakes... they have a tendency to be disconnected from the actual driving environment and over drive (drive beyond the sight lines). But hey, no matter... roads are for cars, right?

genec

I don't think even sports cars can do those hairpins at 55MPH... though no doubt, some try. You usually hear about them in the evening news... "Motorist loses control on hiway... news at 11."

Does anybody come back and say... gee, ya think the speed limit is set too high on that road? Naaaaa.

Locally I have two roads that are surface streets with speed limits at 60 and 65 MPH respectively... they both parallel freeways... (within a 1/4 mile) with speed limits set at 65MPH. So why is a surface street, with driveways, and intersections set at the same speed as a freeway? And if I can ride a bike on those surface streets (which both have BL) why can't I ride a bike on a freeway? Many other arterial roads have speed limits set at 50MPH. (as if motorists only went 50... )

Yeah... common sense kinda goes out the window there, eh?

ghettocruiser

65 mph SPEED LIMIT on an arterial road That's messed.

I mean, some people here DRIVE that fast on surface streets with 60 and 70 KM/hr limits, but to make it official?

genec

Exactly!

sbhikes

What if at all intersections, bikes never had to stop but cars always had to stop? This is the reality (not a legal reality but an actual one) in one local burg, and it actually works very well. Unless you're a hot-head or a policeman.

noisebeam

I want bikes to stop for my sake.
Some of my closest calls have been from other cyclists running stop signs.
Al

patc

Oh yeah, we plan. We're great at planning. We have a taskforce to propose a plan to create a committee to create a plan. Then we do public consultations to plan changes to the plan, and commission environmental assessments on the plan, and compare the plan to other plans. Its all very well planned out. And once all this planning is over, we look at each other helplessly wondering what happened to all the money set aside for the project.

joejack951

I'm glad to see you posting again, Pat.

invisiblehand

I think that overall, it would be a negative outcome. Cars, trucks, and so on, are good at a lot of things. Moreover, cycling isn't the easiest activity for a lot of individuals. Just consider the elderly, the young, and the infirm. Nor is it the optimal mode of transportation for many circumstances/activities.

patc

Thanks. I still read the forum daily, though I don't always have time to read all messages. I don't feel much incentive to post anymore, and more importantly I have very little free time. If I'm not working, I'd rather be outdoors than in front of the computer!

John Forester

And how many of us would want to live in North Korea? Maybe some of you bicycle advocates should move there? As some others of us have commented, either love this nation or leave it.

As for the Parisian area mentioned above, just what is the length of the trips made by these vehicles that are narrower than cars, and from what mode do these vehicles acquire their loads? As the American truckers say, if there's food in your grocery store, it is there because a truck brought it. I find that one reason that the anti-motorists advance silly arguments is that they fail to understand the utility of motor transportation. And, of course, to suit their ideology, if I mention it I am an evil motoring advocate. There are those on this list who insist that I start to understand modern thought; it appears to me that I am the one who does, while they are stuck back in the streetcar era.

patc

By "this nation" I assume you mean the USA, right? You might want to have a look around this web site some day, it may be US dominated but it is bikeforums.NET and not bikeforums.US - and does have an international membership. You might also want to take a good hard look at your "love it or leave it" attitude, aka "with me or against me". That attitude is a large part of why you find so much opposition to you and your ideas.