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  1. #51
    Senior Member Brian Ratliff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CB HI
    But you said it was a one time thing. The links are just a sample that show it has been going on for some time. Interesting that you wish to ignore the cops being jerks towards cyclist, just to support some sort of Portland bike heaven image. Portland is a very nice place to ride, but it is not the bike heaven that many of you wish to convey.
    I fully agree.
    Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
    "If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter

  2. #52
    Cycle Year Round CB HI's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Human Car
    MD has a mandatory bike lane and shoulder use law that we tried to repeal. Thanks to LAB’s help and testimony our bill passed the Senate with very few Senators opposing the bill despite MDOT’s opposition to the bill. But when we tried to get it to pass the house things got extremely hectic and crazy as it was getting near the end of our legislative season.

    I probably should apologies as I did want to go back and get an electronic copy of LAB’s testimony to put up on Baltimore Spokes but that sort of fell through the cracks so I don’t have a link to the testimony, sorry.
    Don't be sorry. You have provided some good information and I am glad LAB joined in to some degree in the effort.


    It would be great if LAB would lead a national effort to end all of the mandatory use laws.

    States with Mandatory Bike Lane Use:
    Alabama, California, Hawaii, Maryland, New York, Oregon, Pennsylvania

    States with Mandatory Side Path Use:
    AL, GA, KS, LA, MI, NE, NY, ND, OK, OR, SC, UT, VA, WV, WY

    States with Mandatory Shoulder Use:
    Alaska, Colorado, Maryland, New York

  3. #53
    Cycle Year Round CB HI's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CB HI
    Portland is a very nice place to ride, but it is not the bike heaven that many of you wish to convey.
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Ratliff
    I fully agree.
    I am glad you agree.

  4. #54
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CB HI
    Actually I lived up in the Pacific Northwest for awhile. So you still remain offbase.
    In Portland? I lived in Oregon for two years but was 200 miles away from Portland and got around the Pacific Northwest enough to recognize that Portland and the Pacific Northwest are not one and the same, eh?

  5. #55
    genec genec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CB HI
    Don't be sorry. You have provided some good information and I am glad LAB joined in to some degree in the effort.


    It would be great if LAB would lead a national effort to end all of the mandatory use laws.

    States with Mandatory Bike Lane Use:
    Alabama, California, Hawaii, Maryland, New York, Oregon, Pennsylvania

    States with Mandatory Side Path Use:
    AL, GA, KS, LA, MI, NE, NY, ND, OK, OR, SC, UT, VA, WV, WY

    States with Mandatory Shoulder Use:
    Alaska, Colorado, Maryland, New York
    OK dumb laws aside... can you tell me what exactly is wrong with say the mandatory use laws in California that have so many exceptions all you have to do is delare one, and ride anywhere you want.

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by CB HI
    States with Mandatory Bike Lane Use:
    Alabama, California, Hawaii, Maryland, New York, Oregon, Pennsylvania
    Whatever website that's still listing PA as a mandatory bike lane state really needs to be updated. That law was repealed almost 10 years ago.

  7. #57
    Senior Member Brian Ratliff's Avatar
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    What is a bike heaven?
    Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
    "If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by genec
    OK dumb laws aside... can you tell me what exactly is wrong with say the mandatory use laws in California that have so many exceptions all you have to do is delare one, and ride anywhere you want.
    California's law is a lot better than the other states laws (in my opinion) because it allows for riding outside the bike lane in the abesence of same direction traffic. This is much more in line with normal vehicular behavior than laws which say to stay to the right at all times.

  9. #59
    Senior Member Brian Ratliff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
    In Portland? I lived in Oregon for two years but was 200 miles away from Portland and got around the Pacific Northwest enough to recognize that Portland and the Pacific Northwest are not one and the same, eh?
    Bend or Roseburg?
    Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
    "If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter

  10. #60
    genec genec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joejack951
    California's law is a lot better than the other states laws (in my opinion) because it allows for riding outside the bike lane in the abesence of same direction traffic. This is much more in line with normal vehicular behavior than laws which say to stay to the right at all times.
    OK thanks. So other states don't have the same "exceptions," I take it.

  11. #61
    Senior Member Brian Ratliff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CB HI
    I am glad you agree.
    It's certainly not the Cycling Hell you've demonized it to be. And unless you've actually ridden in Portland, which has a very different feel than even Beaverton, 15 miles away, you haven't experienced Portland.
    Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
    "If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter

  12. #62
    genec genec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Ratliff
    It's certainly not the Cycling Hell you've demonized it to be. And unless you've actually ridden in Portland, which has a very different feel than even Beaverton, 15 miles away, you haven't experienced Portland.
    Even Vancover, just across the river, feels quite different.

    And the strange thing is that if you drive through town, you are not apt to be amazed by any special bike lanes or anything... but on two wheels, things do feel different.

    I have a brother in law in Washougal... so I get up there once or twice a year. Sure wish I had ordered that Vanilla bike back a few years ago... it might be just about done now.

    BTW love going to Powells.

  13. #63
    -=Barry=- The Human Car's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CB HI
    Don't be sorry. You have provided some good information and I am glad LAB joined in to some degree in the effort.


    It would be great if LAB would lead a national effort to end all of the mandatory use laws.

    States with Mandatory Bike Lane Use:
    Alabama, California, Hawaii, Maryland, New York, Oregon, Pennsylvania

    States with Mandatory Side Path Use:
    AL, GA, KS, LA, MI, NE, NY, ND, OK, OR, SC, UT, VA, WV, WY

    States with Mandatory Shoulder Use:
    Alaska, Colorado, Maryland, New York
    While LAB was instrumental in countering MDOT’s opposition it was up to the people and the bike advocates to gather up the support for this bill and that is something LAB does not have control over.

    Personally I think the more general issue is allowing every state to have totally unique vehicular laws. I personally think we should support the Uniform Vehicle Code even though it is not amazing for cyclists but it would give us something to focus on national bases so we could get all our big guns focused in one spot.
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  14. #64
    Cycle Year Round CB HI's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
    In Portland? I lived in Oregon for two years but was 200 miles away from Portland and got around the Pacific Northwest enough to recognize that Portland and the Pacific Northwest are not one and the same, eh?
    And yet you comment about cycling in so many towns and countries that you have not specifically lived in, just ridden through. How very hypocritical you are.

  15. #65
    -=Barry=- The Human Car's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joejack951
    California's law is a lot better than the other states laws (in my opinion) because it allows for riding outside the bike lane in the abesence of same direction traffic. This is much more in line with normal vehicular behavior than laws which say to stay to the right at all times.
    Could someone post California's law?
    Cycling Advocate
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  16. #66
    Cycle Year Round CB HI's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Human Car
    Personally I think the more general issue is allowing every state to have totally unique vehicular laws. I personally think we should support the Uniform Vehicle Code even though it is not amazing for cyclists but it would give us something to focus on national bases so we could get all our big guns focused in one spot.
    I agree!

  17. #67
    genec genec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Human Car
    Could someone post California's law?

    Here is a link to all the CA bike laws. http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/vc/tocd11c1a4.htm

    And specifically the law you are talking about is here:

    Permitted Movements from Bicycle Lanes
    21208. (a) Whenever a bicycle lane has been established on a roadway pursuant to Section 21207, any person operating a bicycle upon the roadway at a speed less than the normal speed of traffic moving in the same direction at that time shall ride within the bicycle lane, except that the person may move out of the lane under any of the following situations:

    (1) When overtaking and passing another bicycle, vehicle, or pedestrian within the lane or about to enter the lane if the overtaking and passing cannot be done safely within the lane.

    (2) When preparing for a left turn at an intersection or into a private road or driveway.

    (3) When reasonably necessary to leave the bicycle lane to avoid debris or other hazardous conditions.

    (4) When approaching a place where a right turn is authorized.

    (b) No person operating a bicycle shall leave a bicycle lane until the movement can be made with reasonable safety and then only after giving an appropriate signal in the manner provided in Chapter 6 (commencing with Section 22100) in the event that any vehicle may be affected by the movement.

    Amended Sec. 5, Ch. 674, Stats. 1996. Effective January 1, 1997.

  18. #68
    Senior Member Brian Ratliff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CB HI
    And yet you comment about cycling in so many towns and countries that you have not specifically lived in, just ridden through. How very hypocritical you are.
    But he did ride through them. Have you ridden in Portland? I have.
    Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
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  19. #69
    Senior Member Brian Ratliff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by genec
    BTW love going to Powells.
    Quite possibly the best book store in the world .
    Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
    "If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter

  20. #70
    Cycle Year Round CB HI's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Ratliff
    But he did ride through them. Have you ridden in Portland? I have.
    Yes. And even Beaverton that you mentioned before. Can I comment on Eugene, is that OK with you, since I bought my bent there?

    So all you folks out there, ILTB and Brian declare you cannot talk about any city, state or country that you have not also ridden in.
    Last edited by CB HI; 07-06-07 at 04:04 PM.

  21. #71
    genec genec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CB HI
    Yes. And even Beaverton that you mentioned before. Can I comment on Eugene, is that OK with you, since I bought my bent there?

    So all you folks out there, ILTB and Brian declare you cannot talk about any city, state or country that you have not also ridden in.
    Oh wait a minute... a 'bent... then you can't comment on DF riders and their experiences.

  22. #72
    Senior Member Brian Ratliff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CB HI
    Yes. And even Beaverton that you mentioned before. Can I comment on Eugene, is that OK with you, since I bought my bent there?

    So all you folks out there, ILTB and Brian declare you cannot talk about any city, state or country that you have not also ridden in.
    Sounds reasonable. If you have specific complaints, let the locals handle it without any so-called "expert" commentary. Keep your comments inside the context of your experience. Even John Forester hasn't shown me that there is universiality once you get past the generalities of vehicular cycling. The fact that nobody can even agree about the specifics beyond the four or five basic precepts means that the techniques are inherently local.

    So, if you want to make a comment, state it within the boundaries of your experience. I'm glad that you can agree to that CB.

    BTW, when was the last time you were here? Eugene is a mystery to me. I know Beaverton very well and Portland less well; I ride down there only a couple times a month if that though, I used to work for a summer downtown. How about you? What's your experience with Portland, the city you ponificate negatively about so much? Why so little from you about your home state of Hawaii?
    Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
    "If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter

  23. #73
    Cycle Year Round CB HI's Avatar
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    You are just being absurd now!

  24. #74
    Cycle Year Round CB HI's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by genec
    Oh wait a minute... a 'bent... then you can't comment on DF riders and their experiences.
    But, but, I own DFs too. Or is owning both now forbidden?

  25. #75
    genec genec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CB HI
    But, but, I own DFs too. Or is owning both now forbidden?
    Nah, OK to own a whole fleet of bikes of all sizes, types, etc. But see now you have to declare the context...

    Example:

    {context... OK I was riding my carbon DF, while in full kit, on a back road without a BL**
    So this motorist comes along and... bla bla bla...

    End example.

    Get it.

    Or you can do like so many on BF and list your "rolling stock" in your sig.

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