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  1. #1
    Sumanitu taka owaci LittleBigMan's Avatar
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    I saw it, and I believe it

    guy on bike heading down far left side of 7-lane road against traffic, cuts across 3 lanes. rides along yellow line left of stopped traffic for 50 feet or so. hits intersection on red. cuts off three lanes and finally ends up in far right lane, just as traffic starts moving on green.

    if anyone thinks motorists are impulsive, here's a case where they held their breath.
    No worries

  2. #2
    totally louche Bekologist's Avatar
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    sounds like he knew how to ride a bike like a whirling derverish.

    yeah, and what of it?
    Last edited by Bekologist; 07-06-07 at 12:23 AM.
    "Evidence, anecdote and methodology all support planning for roadway bike traffic."

  3. #3
    Senior Member randya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bekologist
    sounds like he knew how to ride a bike...



  4. #4
    JRA
    JRA is offline
    Senior Member JRA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LittleBigMan
    guy on bike heading down far left side of 7-lane road against traffic, cuts across 3 lanes. rides along yellow line left of stopped traffic for 50 feet or so. hits intersection on red. cuts off three lanes and finally ends up in far right lane, just as traffic starts moving on green.

    if anyone thinks motorists are impulsive, here's a case where they held their breath.
    Big deal. Do you think that kind of cycling talent is unique to where you live?

    If it comes to a contest, my money is on St. Louis cycling scufflaws over Atlanta cycling scufflaws, any day.

    Plus, the Hawks are ours (I'm old enough to have actually attended St. Louis Hawks games) and the Braves belong in Milwaukee.

    And the Rams should have never left Cleveland.

    I'm still a St. Louis Cardinals football fan -- the Rams have always been punks (except for Marshall Faulk and the Greatest Roman of them All, Roman Gabriel ) And, yes, I'm old enough to remember when the Gabe (my favorite player ever) was a rookie (you do the math).

    Your cycling scufflaw stories don't impress me one bit.
    Last edited by JRA; 07-06-07 at 02:10 AM.
    "It may even be that motoring is more healthful than not motoring; death rates were certainly higher in the pre-motoring age."- John Forester
    "Laws cannot be properly understood as if written in plain English..."- Forester defending obfuscation.
    "Motorist propaganda, continued for sixty years, is what has put cyclists on sidewalks." - Forester, sociologist in his own mind
    "'There are no rules of the road on MUPs.' -John Forester" - Helmet Head quoting 'The Great One'

  5. #5
    Senior Member dynodonn's Avatar
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    What? And not one motorist tried to collect on what would have been a ton of Death Race 2000 points for a moving adult male target?

  6. #6
    Senior Member skiffrun's Avatar
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    The Hawks did not start in St. Louis & the Braves did not start in Milwaukee

    Quote Originally Posted by JRA
    ... Plus, the Hawks are ours (I'm old enough to have actually attended St. Louis Hawks games) and the Braves belong in Milwaukee. ... I'm still a St. Louis Cardinals football fan ...
    And the football Cardinals bounced between St. Louis & Chicago a couple times.

    (NW Illinois native)

  7. #7
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    I attempted to take the lane Wednesday night going downhill at 55 kph in a 60 zone, and had an angry SUV driver pass me on the right using the right tire track and a bus stop turnout.

    There were two empty lanes available to the left of us.


    If anyone thinks motorists are impulsive, you're right.

  8. #8
    Sumanitu taka owaci LittleBigMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bekologist
    sounds like he knew how to ride a bike like a whirling derverish.

    yeah, and what of it?
    I just felt like criticising stupidity.

    What of it?
    No worries

  9. #9
    Senior Member Brian Ratliff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LittleBigMan
    I just felt like criticising stupidity.

    What of it?
    Ah, stupidity to one is all in a day's work to another. I mean, really, a large percentage of the population genuinely thinks that we are stupid for riding our bikes vehicularly in traffic.
    Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
    "If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter

  10. #10
    genec genec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Ratliff
    Ah, stupidity to one is all in a day's work to another. I mean, really, a large percentage of the population genuinely thinks that we are stupid for riding our bikes vehicularly in traffic.
    No that can't be... there are vc advocates here that tell me that motorists are fully understanding cyclists riding vehicularly in the streets... surly they can't be wrong... after all, "cyclists fare best..." and all that.

  11. #11
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    I'm sure that SUV driver would have colourful terminology to describe my apparent intelligence level for riding my bike in the middle of a lane.

  12. #12
    Sumanitu taka owaci LittleBigMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Ratliff
    Ah, stupidity to one is all in a day's work to another. I mean, really, a large percentage of the population genuinely thinks that we are stupid for riding our bikes vehicularly in traffic.
    I have taken my 12 year-old daughter out on rides, vehicularly, in traffic.

    What I saw yesterday, I would not recommend to my daughter. Would you?
    No worries

  13. #13
    Sumanitu taka owaci LittleBigMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bekologist
    sounds like he knew how to ride a bike like a whirling derverish.
    Interesting comment, coming from someone who claims vehicular cyclists are "chestbeaters." Now you are recommending riding against traffic, riding on the centerline, running stoplights, and cutting off several lanes of traffic "like a whirling dervish?"
    No worries

  14. #14
    totally louche Bekologist's Avatar
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    I'm not recommending anything. I do not condone or condemn the bicyclists' actions, only that it sounds like he knew how to ride the bike.

    the chestbeating is in this forum, dude. figure it out. the "I can ride on narrow laned highway speed roads, so that's all a community needs to encourage bicycling....."

    lil' big man, never rode on the wrong side of the double yellow? rank amateur...
    "Evidence, anecdote and methodology all support planning for roadway bike traffic."

  15. #15
    Sumanitu taka owaci LittleBigMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bekologist
    I'm not recommending anything. I do not condone or condemn the bicyclists' actions...
    I guess I misunderstood your meaning, then.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bekologist
    the chestbeating is in this forum, dude. figure it out. the "I can ride on narrow laned highway speed roads, so that's all a community needs to encourage bicycling....."
    That's your inference, but not necessarily the meaning intended by vehicular cyclists who suggest that such a road can be ridden safely by a bicyclist.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bekologist
    lil' big man, never rode on the wrong side of the double yellow? rank amateur...
    Wait--let me take my shirt off and beat my chest--yes, I have--and that means absolutely nothing in regard to the context of my original post.
    No worries

  16. #16
    totally louche Bekologist's Avatar
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    I believe the inferences from the vc camps' chestbeating are abundantly clear in the Bike Forums Advocacy and Safety forum.


    why bring up all the internet chestbeating anyway? a pretty lame advocacy platform, by the way.

    are you complaining about the bicyclists advanced bike handling skills and lawlessness, or praising it?

    what gives? a guy decides to ride breaking some traffic rules to advance on traffic. maybe he was a messenger....do you have bike messengers in Atlanta?


    mad because he wasn't exercising 'same roads same rules' edict of the vcist camp? (have had that quoted to me out of a car window by a 'bicyclist'- I retorted- "You're not a bicyclist, you're driving a car!"
    "Evidence, anecdote and methodology all support planning for roadway bike traffic."

  17. #17
    Senior Member Brian Ratliff's Avatar
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    I dunno, LBM. The riding part of VC isn't difficult, it is the decision making part which requires maturity. Would you have your daughter out riding VC in traffic without supervision? On all roads or only on some of them? Does it matter the traffic volume? If so, why? If any of these matter, you've proven my point.

    I was riding VC in my neighborhood roads when I was little, unsupervised. But there was, perhaps, only a single car every half hour going 10 mph... We'd have basket ball games in the street too.

    I'm not sure why people get their panties up in a bunch about these things. Yea, their techniques are not to be recommended to anyone, and most people understand why. But then again, I can admire their skills while knowing that I don't do that sort of thing and to have everyone doing such things won't work. But then, it isn't my job to enforce laws. Society frowns on vigilantes too.

    Think of the snowboarders or downhill skiers (or professional bicycle racers, for that matter): think of how many bones they've broken and how many scars they must have from injuries. But it's their body to injure, and I can still admire the pretty loops they make in the air or the 100mph screams they make down the mountains. And the argument that "society pays for their injuries so everyone has a stake in a single person's behavior"? It's the price you pay for living in a civil society. Everyone complains this system until it is them who are stuck with medical bills they cannot pay for. And besides, if you take this to the extreme, then we'd not be allowed to ride our bikes because, as you well know, a collision with a motor vehicle, even a minor one, results in major injuries to the cyclist, and you know, we cannot be paying for that as a society just because someone thought he could get uppity and ride his bike to work.
    Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
    "If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter

  18. #18
    Sumanitu taka owaci LittleBigMan's Avatar
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    Hey, I just noticed a guy doing something asinine on a bike, so I posted it publicly.

    What's the big rush to defend a cyclist you've never seen? You all know you'd flip one to any motorist who did that. I doubt we'd hear comments like, "Hey, he drives like Dale Earnhardt."

    And why mix the defence with comments like==

    "mad because he wasn't exercising 'same roads same rules' edict of the vcist camp?"

    "Would you have your daughter out riding VC in traffic without supervision? On all roads or only on some of them? Does it matter the traffic volume? If so, why? If any of these matter, you've proven my point."

    "More information is needed: How are her bike handling skills? Does she have good situational awareness? Does she have enough driving experience so that she can accurately judge traffic gaps, the timing of light cycles, etc.?"

    (That one makes me wonder if she should read a book about cycling, it sounds pretty complicated, and especially the part about "does she have enough driving experience," well, probably not enough, since she's 12, like, you already knew that,)

    All these comments from those for whom their seemingly favorite pastime is to duel with "VC-ists" on BikeForums.

    Have at it guys.
    Last edited by LittleBigMan; 07-06-07 at 04:44 PM.
    No worries

  19. #19
    Senior Member Brian Ratliff's Avatar
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    I generally assume the side of the "assinine" character when someone is taking pot shots at him anonomously on a forum behind his back. It's as bad as those fellas in the road bike forum who brag about how they "dropped" a "poseur" in a full bike kit on their 30 lb commuter bike going up a hill. With them, it's always the same formula. They caught up to the guy going up a hill. The put on the extra effort. They thought they saw the guy struggling to keep up in this race going on in their head. And, of course, they won.

    The OP is just another way of bragging about how well you bike and know the "rules of the road" and the "proper" way to ride a bicycle. Same formula. See person doing something "assinine". Say, OMG, their going to get themselves killed. Then brag about how many "rules of the road" violations they racked up and how they'll eventually end up as road kill. You see the pattern here?

    Learn some respect. It's not just about being nice and pleasant, as we all know you are and you never fail to be. It's about withholding judgement. Even if you have to do so indefinitely.
    Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
    "If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter

  20. #20
    Senior Member rando's Avatar
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    yeah, I believe it...but, increasingly I care less and less about what others do and focus more on what I'M doing. works best for me.
    Last edited by rando; 07-06-07 at 10:35 PM.
    "Think of bicycles as rideable art that can just about save the world". ~Grant Petersen

    Cyclists fare best when they recognize that there are times when acting vehicularly is not the best practice, and are flexible enough to do what is necessary as the situation warrants.--Me

  21. #21
    Sumanitu taka owaci LittleBigMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete Fagerlin
    You were the fruitloop that brought your daughter into the discussion in a vain attempt at making some kind of point.
    Reaching, again?

    Shall I help you find the hot-button?
    No worries

  22. #22
    Sumanitu taka owaci LittleBigMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Ratliff
    I generally assume the side of the "assinine" character when someone is taking pot shots at him anonomously on a forum behind his back.
    You are free to do so.
    No worries

  23. #23
    Sumanitu taka owaci LittleBigMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete Fagerlin
    Nope. Just the facts.

    "I have taken my 12 year-old daughter out on rides, vehicularly, in traffic.

    What I saw yesterday, I would not recommend to my daughter. Would you?"
    Would you? You never answered the question.
    No worries

  24. #24
    Sumanitu taka owaci LittleBigMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LittleBigMan
    Would you? You never answered the question.
    Nevermind, I don't expect you to.

    This is the kind of fun that keeps me up arguing with someone who has nothing important to say.
    No worries

  25. #25
    Senior Member Brian Ratliff's Avatar
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    I did. First you cannot understand it; I explained. I guess you understand now?
    Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
    "If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter

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