If JF psychological theories are correct shouldn’t we also be against …
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If JF psychological theories are correct shouldn’t we also be against …
Using JF’s logic on why we should be against BL shouldn’t we also be against:
Marriage; it was designed by men under the women-inferiority superstition.
Mass Transit; it was designed by people with a vehicle under the walking inferiority superstition.
Laws; designed by government under the general public inferiority superstition.
(Any other similar parallels?)
My point is all this psychobabble is just a red herring and has nothing to contribute about anything.
Marriage; it was designed by men under the women-inferiority superstition.
Mass Transit; it was designed by people with a vehicle under the walking inferiority superstition.
Laws; designed by government under the general public inferiority superstition.
(Any other similar parallels?)
My point is all this psychobabble is just a red herring and has nothing to contribute about anything.
As for my psychological hypothesis of the cyclist-inferiority superstition in its various strengths, it explains why bicycle advocates so vehemently advocate the precise system that was designed by motorists to denigrate cycling for their own convenience. That is an absurdity that cries out for explanation, and, so far, my psychological hypothesis is the only one that does so. Like it or lump it, or, if you are convinced that it is incorrect, then offer a better explanation for your own actions, although, to be accurate, I should have written excuse instead of explanation.
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Using JF’s logic on why we should be against BL shouldn’t we also be against:
Marriage; it was designed by men under the women-inferiority superstition.
Mass Transit; it was designed by people with a vehicle under the walking inferiority superstition.
Laws; designed by government under the general public inferiority superstition.
(Any other similar parallels?)
My point is all this psychobabble is just a red herring and has nothing to contribute about anything.
Marriage; it was designed by men under the women-inferiority superstition.
Mass Transit; it was designed by people with a vehicle under the walking inferiority superstition.
Laws; designed by government under the general public inferiority superstition.
(Any other similar parallels?)
My point is all this psychobabble is just a red herring and has nothing to contribute about anything.
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What part of "I'm a cyclist and don't belong in traffic, I'm a driver and that cyclist doesn't belong in traffic" don't you two get please? Yes, JF's verbose and often abrasive writing style can be a little dense to read but so far he's not wrong.
How any of that relates to the OP's post remains a mystery to me. I can only assume that it's trolling due to a purely personal dislike of JF and has absolutely nothing to do with his theories. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
How any of that relates to the OP's post remains a mystery to me. I can only assume that it's trolling due to a purely personal dislike of JF and has absolutely nothing to do with his theories. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
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shameless POWERCRANK plug
Recommended reading for all cyclists - Cyclecraft - Effective Cycling
Condor Cycles - quite possibly the best bike shop in London
Don't run red lights, wear a helmet, use hand signals, get some cycle lights(front and rear) and, FFS, don't run red lights!
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What part of "I'm a cyclist and don't belong in traffic, I'm a driver and that cyclist doesn't belong in traffic" don't you two get please? Yes, JF's verbose and often abrasive writing style can be a little dense to read but so far he's not wrong.
How any of that relates to the OP's post remains a mystery to me. I can only assume that it's trolling due to a purely personal dislike of JF and has absolutely nothing to do with his theories. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
How any of that relates to the OP's post remains a mystery to me. I can only assume that it's trolling due to a purely personal dislike of JF and has absolutely nothing to do with his theories. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
You might not be 'wrong', but also thinking Forrester is cyclings version of Xanu
isnt wrong either. The 'Cyclist inferiority Syndrome' is beyond ludicris.
Maybe he can lend his name to a medication to cure it like that 'restless leg syndrome'
stuff......
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What part of I am an experienced and educated cyclists and I ride the safest way possible wither there are bike lanes or not don’t you understand? Some sort of bike lane superstition perhaps? The law cannot require you to ride in an unsafe manner, which to me is a critical point to all this fear mongering around bike lanes. It is only because cyclists have an inferiority complex and feel they are totally helpless around badly designed bike lanes does a lot of this junk exist in the first place.
In short the worst case scenario bike lanes are no skin off my nose and make no difference to my current riding conditions and at best I like riding in them and they make bike riding more pleasant.
Edit: A badly designed bike lane is a lot like a pot hole, if you get involved you can get these things fixed, don’t put up with junk.
In short the worst case scenario bike lanes are no skin off my nose and make no difference to my current riding conditions and at best I like riding in them and they make bike riding more pleasant.
Edit: A badly designed bike lane is a lot like a pot hole, if you get involved you can get these things fixed, don’t put up with junk.
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Bike Forums is just another way for government to hold us down and force us off of other internet boards. If we're not careful and don't exercise our rights, we will be banned from other internet sites and forced to be exclusively on bike forums.
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Cyclists fare best when they recognize that there are times when acting vehicularly is not the best practice, and are flexible enough to do what is necessary as the situation warrants.--Me
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I’m “trolling” to make a point on what consist of a logical argument and what does not. Just because some other group created something to control or subjugate another group does not in itself imply that it is evil.
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i think john forester has sadly turned into an automobile & congestion advocate.
and he thinks most cyclists should not be riding on the streets. what an elitist.
and he thinks most cyclists should not be riding on the streets. what an elitist.
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A rare few actually ride in the streets.
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???
what? here in Seattle, most riders are riding the streets. despite them riding the roadways, john would consider most of them 'incompetant' and unfit to ride roads. he's an elitist, pontificating prig.
what? here in Seattle, most riders are riding the streets. despite them riding the roadways, john would consider most of them 'incompetant' and unfit to ride roads. he's an elitist, pontificating prig.
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As far as I can tell, according to John Forester, we should be opposed to a lot of things, including mass transit, urban planning and urban planners, motorists and anti-motorists, perhaps even utility cycling but, most importantly, we should oppose anyone who doesn't bow to John Forester's infinite wisdom (and, possibly, any cyclist who isn't a "high mileage road cyclist", a.k.a. a club cyclist) -- ideally, we should belittle and ridicule such infidels. Of course, anyone with the audacity to disagree with The Great One is scum.
Who gives a rat's behind about John Forester's nutcase social and psychological theories? Forester is the clown prince of cycling advocacy, an arrogant and insulting egomaniac and an embarassment to rules of the road cyclists everywhere.
Apologists for John Forester notwithstanding, the biggest obstacle to rational discussion is John Forester, who has made a conscious choice to be devisive. Forester has made a career of being insulting, calling people liars and implying that anyone who disagrees with him is mentally deficient. Belittling people is the very basis of JF's philosophy.
If you want to start an argument among cyclists, just mention Forester's name -- but be prepared for some laughter and ridicule.
Forester's social and psychological theories are a joke (no matter how many times he repeats them). It amuses me no end that anyone takes Forester's wacko theories seriously. The guy knows a lot about cycling and yet he still manages to be very wrong in some very fundamental ways. He's a classic case of what my father used to call a know-it-all who knows a lot of things that aren't true.
Who gives a rat's behind about John Forester's nutcase social and psychological theories? Forester is the clown prince of cycling advocacy, an arrogant and insulting egomaniac and an embarassment to rules of the road cyclists everywhere.
Apologists for John Forester notwithstanding, the biggest obstacle to rational discussion is John Forester, who has made a conscious choice to be devisive. Forester has made a career of being insulting, calling people liars and implying that anyone who disagrees with him is mentally deficient. Belittling people is the very basis of JF's philosophy.
If you want to start an argument among cyclists, just mention Forester's name -- but be prepared for some laughter and ridicule.
Forester's social and psychological theories are a joke (no matter how many times he repeats them). It amuses me no end that anyone takes Forester's wacko theories seriously. The guy knows a lot about cycling and yet he still manages to be very wrong in some very fundamental ways. He's a classic case of what my father used to call a know-it-all who knows a lot of things that aren't true.
Last edited by JRA; 07-31-07 at 08:52 AM.
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Those on the streets actually represent a small proportion of all cyclists... now they may be the higher milage cyclists, but they do not represent a majority of "cyclists."
Just looking at the people numbers here... not the actual miles ridden, nor the days ridden. This fact is why so many motorists consider bikes, "toys;" for them, that is what a bike is. This is also why bike paths are typically geared for 8-10 MPH.
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no, gene, most bicyclists in seattle are riding in the streets. not the ones i talk to at the shop, MOST bicyclists seen in the city. riding in the streets.
despite that, jonh thinks most are likely incompetant and should be banned from riding a bicycle.
despite that, jonh thinks most are likely incompetant and should be banned from riding a bicycle.
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is a cyclist a person who owns a bicycle and rides it once a year? or is a cyclist a person that rides a bike, regularily?
Gene, most cyclists in seattle ride the roads.
Gene, most cyclists in seattle ride the roads.
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OK Everyone, it's starting to get personal in here, let's dial it back a bit on personal references, thanks!
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"We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." - Immanuel Kant
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So it's OK for John Forester to personally attact virtually everyone who disagrees with him for over 40 years (even to the point of "love this country or leave it" comments), but it's not OK to point out what an arrogant and insuting egomanical SOB John Forester has been for over 40 years? Gimme a break!
If it's OK for John Forester to be an insuting SOB, it should be acceptable for others to respond in kind.
Last edited by JRA; 07-31-07 at 10:08 AM.
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So does Government (group #1) creating laws to subjugate citizens (group #2) mean that laws are inherently bad for citizens (group #2)?
So what do you think, yes, no? Can you explain your answer?
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BF is pretty cool. I started this thread to be a logic puzzle not a personality bashing contest. So maybe if I was more focused in my question.
So does Government (group #1) creating laws to subjugate citizens (group #2) mean that laws are inherently bad for citizens (group #2)?
So what do you think, yes, no? Can you explain your answer?
So does Government (group #1) creating laws to subjugate citizens (group #2) mean that laws are inherently bad for citizens (group #2)?
So what do you think, yes, no? Can you explain your answer?
Another aspect is that a law voted in for perfectly valid reasons can have unintended consequences, unforeseen because of a faulty cause/effect analysis.
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. “He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.”- Fredrick Nietzsche
"We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." - Immanuel Kant
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I agree that the mods should come down on John when he gets insulting but that still is not a license for open insult season on John. My general rule of thumb is only insult when insulted and then I am done and I think it would be helpful if others at least followed this practice (but better yet would be not to allow the insults in the first place.)
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I agree that the mods should come down on John when he gets insulting but that still is not a license for open insult season on John. My general rule of thumb is only insult when insulted and then I am done and I think it would be helpful if others at least followed this practice (but better yet would be not to allow the insults in the first place.)
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Anyway it is really hard on the mods to draw a line on what is appropriate and what is not so it is up to us to give them feed back.
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Originally Posted by patc
I agree that the mods should come down on John when he gets insulting but that still is not a license for open insult season on John. My general rule of thumb is only insult when insulted and then I am done and I think it would be helpful if others at least followed this practice (but better yet would be not to allow the insults in the first place.)
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"Real wars of words are harder to win. They require thought, insight, precision, articulation, knowledge, and experience. They require the humility to admit when you are wrong. They recognize that the dialectic is not about making us look at you, but about us all looking together for the truth."