Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Page 1 of 5 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 116

Thread: VC Confessional

  1. #1
    totally louche Bekologist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    A land that time forgot
    My Bikes
    the ever shifting stable loaded with comfortable road bikes and city and winter bikes
    Posts
    18,026
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    VC Confessional

    Tonight I rode to the right thru some intersections as traffic passed me.
    "Evidence, anecdote and methodology all support planning for roadway bike traffic."

  2. #2
    Devilmaycare Cycling Fool Allister's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Wynnum, Australia
    My Bikes
    1998 Cannondale F700
    Posts
    3,819
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I'm amazed you survived.
    If we learn from our mistakes, I must be a goddamn genius.

  3. #3
    totally louche Bekologist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    A land that time forgot
    My Bikes
    the ever shifting stable loaded with comfortable road bikes and city and winter bikes
    Posts
    18,026
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I might have wandered into a door zone or two.
    "Evidence, anecdote and methodology all support planning for roadway bike traffic."

  4. #4
    Sophomoric Member Roody's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Dancing in Lansing
    Posts
    20,435
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I spent time on this forum tonight. I hope that's the scariest experience I have this month.


    "Think Outside the Cage"

  5. #5
    Tom Frost Jr. TheWheelman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Susquehanna County, Pennsylvania
    My Bikes
    Road bike.
    Posts
    141
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Bekologist View Post
    I might have wandered into a door zone or two.
    I did too yesterday, many times. So what? One of the things that they don't teach you on the internet discussion groups where you like to spend all your time, Bekologist, is that the 6-foot or whatever the number is that HH and them all spout, minimum clearance, is not sacrosanct. Rather, one may be a considerable chunk of the way inside that zone and make up for the difference by using a mirror to always know how many additional feet are available to one's left for the emergency swerve that might become necessary at any moment.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Brian Ratliff's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Near Portland, OR
    My Bikes
    Three road bikes. Two track bikes.
    Posts
    9,477
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    ^^^
    Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
    "If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter

  7. #7
    Banned. Helmet Head's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    San Diego
    Posts
    13,075
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by TheWheelman View Post
    I did too yesterday, many times. So what? One of the things that they don't teach you on the internet discussion groups where you like to spend all your time, Bekologist, is that the 6-foot or whatever the number is that HH and them all spout, minimum clearance, is not sacrosanct. Rather, one may be a considerable chunk of the way inside that zone and make up for the difference by using a mirror to always know how many additional feet are available to one's left for the emergency swerve that might become necessary at any moment.
    Tom, no one, certainly not me, spouts anything about any particular minimum distance being sacrosanct.

    And as far as Beck's confession goes, I've long stated that when faster same direction traffic is present, staying to the right of them is often the most appropriate thing to do, even when approaching and crossing an intersection, assuming there is space to do it safely and reasonably. The faster same-direction traffic actually serves as interference against potential left and right crosses (which is why I think it's important to move left as soon as the last motorist passes and there is a gap long enough for cross traffic to try to move across your path). However, you have to maintain rearward situational awareness, and this is where a mirror is very helpful, to make sure you're not leaving yourself vulnerable to a right hook from someone in that traffic passing suddenly turning right.

    Of course, you can also get away with it dozens if not hundreds of times without paying attention to that, just like you can probably get away with riding dozens if not hundreds of times in door zones without get whacked. It's a numbers games, after all.

    Beck's relatively frequent close calls and crashes attests to that.
    Last edited by Helmet Head; 12-04-07 at 04:55 PM.

  8. #8
    Part-time epistemologist invisiblehand's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Washington, DC
    My Bikes
    Jamis Nova, Bike Friday NWT, STRIDA, Austro Daimler Vent Noir, Haluzak Horizon, Salsa La Raza, Hollands Tourer, Bike Friday tikit
    Posts
    5,171
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Ratliff View Post
    ^^^
    You have been around too long to be surprised anymore ...

  9. #9
    Devilmaycare Cycling Fool Allister's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Wynnum, Australia
    My Bikes
    1998 Cannondale F700
    Posts
    3,819
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by TheWheelman View Post
    ...always know how many additional feet are available to one's left for the emergency swerve that might become necessary at any moment.
    Do you mean a swerve into traffic? What a goose.
    If we learn from our mistakes, I must be a goddamn genius.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Brian Ratliff's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Near Portland, OR
    My Bikes
    Three road bikes. Two track bikes.
    Posts
    9,477
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Helmet Head View Post
    Tom, no one, certainly not me, spouts anything about any particular minimum distance being sacrosanct.
    I seem to recall some sort of matra involving five feet that you used to "spout". Is it sacrosanct? Well, you chastised many a person on this forum for spending any time inside five feet - that sounds sacrosanct to me.

    Don't bother to tell me to come up with your exact words. Apparently "search" is out of order and is only searching through threads in the past week or so. But I'll bet that other's can recall your saying this as well.
    Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
    "If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter

  11. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Reisterstown, MD
    Posts
    3,181
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Allister View Post
    Do you mean a swerve into traffic? What a goose.
    What an idiot.

    Where did he say he swerved into traffic? By keeping a level of situational awareness he knows when it is safe to swerve left if needed (specifically when there wouldn't be traffic there). This is smart.

    I do the same thing, whether on a bike or in a car. It has gotten me out of plenty of close calls over the years.

    -D

  12. #12
    totally louche Bekologist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    A land that time forgot
    My Bikes
    the ever shifting stable loaded with comfortable road bikes and city and winter bikes
    Posts
    18,026
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Helmet Head View Post
    The faster same-direction traffic actually serves as interference against potential left and right crosses.....


    reaaallllly? you are truly sophmoric, helemt head. do you even ride a bike?


    more VC confessions ....last night, I rode on the sidewalk the wrong way down a one way street the wrong way to shave a mile off my commute.
    "Evidence, anecdote and methodology all support planning for roadway bike traffic."

  13. #13
    Al noisebeam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    AZ
    My Bikes
    Cannondale SuperSix, Lemond Poprad. Retired: Jamis Sputnik, Centurion LeMans Fixed, Diamond Back ascent ex
    Posts
    13,902
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Every day I ride from the side door of my garage, across my dirt patch also known as a lawn, over the sidewalk and make a left turn into the roadway without signaling nor looking over my shoulder.

    Al

  14. #14
    Sophomoric Member Roody's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Dancing in Lansing
    Posts
    20,435
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Bekologist View Post


    reaaallllly? you are truly sophmoric, helemt head. do you even ride a bike?


    more VC confessions ....last night, I rode on the sidewalk the wrong way down a one way street the wrong way to shave a mile off my commute
    .
    Funny, Robert Hurst is one writer who articulated the concept of using other traffic as a shield. He said something to the effect of beware of the gap. If there's a gap in same-direction car traffic, other drivers to your left will use the opportunity to enter your lane, So be aware of that!

    I thought this was smart when Hurst wrote it, and it's smart when HH writes it too. Your responses to HH are so knee-jerk that if he said it's daytime, you'd put your blinkies on.


    "Think Outside the Cage"

  15. #15
    Part-time epistemologist invisiblehand's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Washington, DC
    My Bikes
    Jamis Nova, Bike Friday NWT, STRIDA, Austro Daimler Vent Noir, Haluzak Horizon, Salsa La Raza, Hollands Tourer, Bike Friday tikit
    Posts
    5,171
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Bekologist View Post
    ....last night, I rode on the sidewalk the wrong way down a one way street the wrong way to shave a mile off my commute.
    A mile ... really?

    Well, I would probably do the same.

    Now that I think about it more, I would do the same for a considerably shorter distance under certain conditions.

  16. #16
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Reisterstown, MD
    Posts
    3,181
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Roody View Post
    Funny, Robert Hurst is one writer who articulated the concept of using other traffic as a shield. He said something to the effect of beware of the gap. If there's a gap in same-direction car traffic, other drivers to your left will use the opportunity to enter your lane, So be aware of that!

    I thought this was smart when Hurst wrote it, and it's smart when HH writes it too. Your responses to HH are so knee-jerk that if he said it's daytime, you'd put your blinkies on
    .
    +1

  17. #17
    totally louche Bekologist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    A land that time forgot
    My Bikes
    the ever shifting stable loaded with comfortable road bikes and city and winter bikes
    Posts
    18,026
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I DO recommend daytime visible blinkies, boys.

    however, faster same direction traffic is never a defense against 'right hooks', roody. the left cross, yes. right hook by the driver to your left? hardly.
    "Evidence, anecdote and methodology all support planning for roadway bike traffic."

  18. #18
    Tom Frost Jr. TheWheelman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Susquehanna County, Pennsylvania
    My Bikes
    Road bike.
    Posts
    141
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Bekologist View Post
    however, faster same direction traffic is never a defense against 'right hooks',
    Watch that slander; the term used was "right cross". And many of us have indeed had faster same-direction traffic protect us from right crosses. The more you talk, the narrower we learn that your experience is, Bekologist.

  19. #19
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Reisterstown, MD
    Posts
    3,181
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by TheWheelman View Post
    Watch that slander; the term used was "right cross". And many of us have indeed had faster same-direction traffic protect us from right crosses. The more you talk, the narrower we learn that your experience is, Bekologist.
    No it is more we learn how adept Bek is at the subtle word change, soundbite, misdirection, catch phrase, and other techniques usually reserved for our politicians.

    Notice how well he pulls a re-direct above with the blinkie statement. Of course he ignores the actual point of the statement, but the re-direct is brilliant!

    HH says day. Bek says it must be night.

    Bek, dude. I have said it before. You should be in politics.

    -D

  20. #20
    Devilmaycare Cycling Fool Allister's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Wynnum, Australia
    My Bikes
    1998 Cannondale F700
    Posts
    3,819
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by derath View Post
    What an idiot.

    Where did he say he swerved into traffic? By keeping a level of situational awareness he knows when it is safe to swerve left if needed (specifically when there wouldn't be traffic there). This is smart.

    I do the same thing, whether on a bike or in a car. It has gotten me out of plenty of close calls over the years.

    -D
    Why would you ride in the door zone if there's no cars passing?
    If we learn from our mistakes, I must be a goddamn genius.

  21. #21
    Devilmaycare Cycling Fool Allister's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Wynnum, Australia
    My Bikes
    1998 Cannondale F700
    Posts
    3,819
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by derath View Post
    Bek, dude. I have said it before. You should be in politics.
    I'd vote for him.
    If we learn from our mistakes, I must be a goddamn genius.

  22. #22
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Reisterstown, MD
    Posts
    3,181
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Allister View Post
    Why would you ride in the door zone if there's no cars passing?
    Allister, you have already shown your inability to read. No need to keep embarrassing yourself.

    Oh, and there aren't any door zones where I ride.

    Thanks for trying though.

    -D

  23. #23
    Devilmaycare Cycling Fool Allister's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Wynnum, Australia
    My Bikes
    1998 Cannondale F700
    Posts
    3,819
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by derath View Post
    Allister, you have already shown your inability to read. No need to keep embarrassing yourself.
    Aren't you just a sensitive little fellow.

    Quote Originally Posted by derath View Post
    Oh, and there aren't any door zones where I ride.

    Thanks for trying though.

    -D
    I think you need a recap.
    If we learn from our mistakes, I must be a goddamn genius.

  24. #24
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Reisterstown, MD
    Posts
    3,181
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Allister View Post
    Aren't you just a sensitive little fellow.
    Not really.



    Quote Originally Posted by Allister View Post
    I think you need a recap.
    Again not really.

    You didn't reply to Wheelman about riding in a door zone. You replied to me. I never said anything about riding in a door zone.

    You replied to wheelman about swerving into traffic. He didn't say anything about swerving into traffic.

    I know some people can have these issues. If you think you need assistance maybe something like this might help. Hopefully it is available in the geat down under.


  25. #25
    Banned. Helmet Head's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    San Diego
    Posts
    13,075
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Ratliff View Post
    I seem to recall some sort of matra involving five feet that you used to "spout". Is it sacrosanct? Well, you chastised many a person on this forum for spending any time inside five feet - that sounds sacrosanct to me.

    Don't bother to tell me to come up with your exact words. Apparently "search" is out of order and is only searching through threads in the past week or so. But I'll bet that other's can recall your saying this as well.
    Sorry! Somehow I managed to totally misunderstand what that comment was about. Looking back, I don't see how I did that - I missed the context that was stated quite clearly: door zones.

    So Tom and I do disagree on this point. I'm not sure I would call the five feet that I use and advocate to be "sacrosanct", but I disagree with what he says about using a mirror to know when it's safe to go into the door zone, especially if that's being done to facilitate passing, which means you're doing it while there is overtaking traffic. If a door does suddenly swing open, you'll swerve or might be pushed into the path of that traffic.

    If there is no overtaking traffic, what would be the reason to ride in the door zone?

    Ah, well maybe if all that traffic is stopped riding in the door zone to pass them on the right, assuming passing on the left is not an option for some reason, might be a reasonably safe risk. But I don't think that's what Tom is talking about.

Page 1 of 5 123 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •