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  1. #1
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    treehugger has a poll about bike lanes up, VC losing badly....

    if this is a repost, then feel free to ignore. I always am interested on how non-biking sites take on cycling issues.

    Personally, I think the poll was phrased very badly and seemed to take on too many issues in one poll (VC, beginner cyclists, types of bike lanes, etc.)

    http://www.treehugger.com/files/2008...bike-lanes.php

    Some good responses in there. Much more friendly than your typical city paper website poll and comments.

  2. #2
    Al noisebeam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bizzz111 View Post
    Personally, I think the poll was phrased very badly
    So badly that one can not draw any meaningful info. A waste of time.

    option one is about paths - yes/no
    option two is about door zones - yes/no
    option three is about separate bike lanes - yes/no
    option four is other

    Al

  3. #3
    Banned. Helmet Head's Avatar
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    I can live with the first option: "Forget paths. "we can accomplish the same thing just by squashing this ridiculous notion that cyclists are somehow “second class” road users."

    But it's revealing that they seem to equate supporting paths with the notion that cyclists are second class users.

    Someone posting as Iconley said this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Iconley
    Looks like folks prefer the ornamental, and false promise, of separated bike lanes. There's a large body of research and data that shows that bike/car collisions are more frequent and injuries more severe from separated bicycle facilities.
    At some point, bicycles and pedestrians have to interface with cars. If cars do not expect bicyclists to be present, if bicycles are perceived as intruders on the cars' domain, and the roads are not designed to host cyclists, there will be many and horrific injuries.
    Channelizing and segregating vehicle traffic inevitably speeds it up, increasing accident severity, and making it far harder for people to cross traffic safely, and leads to the deterioration of neighborhoods. You have given your streets up to the auto.
    It is also a waste of space and a difficult design problem to segregate transportation modes in this fashion. And if cyclists get their own lanes, should rollerbladers also? There's no end to how finely you can try to separate the various modes.
    Far better is to provide properly designed roads, where traffic will anticipate and accommodate cyclists in the general flow of traffic, where pedestrians can expect to cross the street safely at any time. This will result in fewer accidents and injuries. It is also cheaper and simpler, and leaves more right of way for other public amenities like trees and plantings, street furniture, places for shops to spill out on the street and informal socialization and public life to happen, creating actual spaces and neighborhood identity.
    Well stated.

  4. #4
    ♋ ☮♂ ☭ ☯ -=(8)=-'s Avatar
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    Great poll. Quick, concise, to the point.
    And, as to be expected, the people who dont need
    to petty semantisize, engage in bizarre hypothetical rationalizing
    and arent prone to extreme religious zealotism have chosen separate
    facilities. Again.

  5. #5
    www.chipsea.blogspot.com ChipSeal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by -=Łem in Pa=- View Post
    Great poll. Quick, concise, to the point.
    And, as to be expected, the people who dont need
    to petty semantisize, engage in bizarre hypothetical rationalizing
    and arent prone to extreme religious zealotism have chosen separate
    facilities. Again.
    Bosh!
    Vehicular cycling techniques have not been tried and found difficult. They have been presumed difficult and not tried.

  6. #6
    Senior Member randya's Avatar
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    I would have to say the questions in that poll are a bit loaded / biased.

  7. #7
    Banned. Helmet Head's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by -=Łem in Pa=- View Post
    Great poll. Quick, concise, to the point.
    And, as to be expected, the people who dont need
    to petty semantisize, engage in bizarre hypothetical rationalizing
    and arent prone to extreme religious zealotism have chosen separate
    facilities. Again.
    Tripe!

  8. #8
    Conservative Hippie
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    And the meaning of this poll is what, exactly? That a some people who ride slowly on the sidewalk in their own neighborhood, if they ride at all, have access to the internet?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by CommuterRun View Post
    And the meaning of this poll is what, exactly? That a some people who ride slowly on the sidewalk in their own neighborhood, if they ride at all, have access to the internet?
    or the majority of the blog's readers are drivers that don't want to be bothered with cyclists.

  10. #10
    your nightmare gal chipcom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChipSeal View Post
    Bosh!
    You've met my sister?
    "Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey

  11. #11
    your nightmare gal chipcom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helmet Head View Post
    Tripe!
    No thanks, I just ate, but feel free to have some yourself.
    "Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey

  12. #12
    Devilmaycare Cycling Fool Allister's Avatar
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    That poll is even stupider than a HH one, and that's saying something.
    If we learn from our mistakes, I must be a goddamn genius.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helmet Head View Post
    ...Someone posting as Iconley said this:
    Quote Originally Posted by Originally Posted by Iconley
    ...There's a large body of research and data that shows that bike/car collisions are more frequent and injuries more severe from separated bicycle facilities.
    False.

  14. #14
    www.chipsea.blogspot.com ChipSeal's Avatar
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    Balderdash!

    Quote Originally Posted by Allister View Post
    That poll is even stupider than a HH one, and that's saying something.
    Vehicular cycling techniques have not been tried and found difficult. They have been presumed difficult and not tried.

  15. #15
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allister
    That poll is even stupider than a HH one, and that's saying something.
    Quote Originally Posted by ChipSeal View Post
    Balderdash!
    You really think HH's polls are just as stupid or even stupider? Maybe you are right.

  16. #16
    8speed DinoSORAs Ed Holland's Avatar
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    arsebiscuits!
    Get a bicycle. You will certainly not regret it, if you live.

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