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  1. #1
    totally louche Bekologist's Avatar
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    curbhugging - a VC technique

    Curbhugging. Riding next to the curb or edge of the road. This is not an endorsement nor a condemnation of either curbhugging or vehyicular cycling, just some observations.

    Last night, riding home. unaccomodated, 30mph, two lane, narrow urban streets with houses, driveways, mix of business and residential, stoplights at arterial crossings. On street parking. A cyclist even moderately taking the lane or riding anywhere near the right tire track would block traffic from passing if oncoming traffic is present.


    I'm a very assertive, 'take the lane', cross the double yellow kind of bicyclist. I ride uber-vc.


    Yet, a curious phenomenon occured- I found spots - no oncoming traffic, no parking on my side, etc,a few blocks to the next signalized intersection, etc... where i could ride right next to the curb- like 6-8" away and let cars pass me. It wasn't in violation of any of my safety standards, and was 'vehicular' in operation.

    THEN it came to me!!!! riding like a curbhugger can be a VC technique!!

  2. #2
    POWERCRANK addict markhr's Avatar
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    shameless POWERCRANK plug
    Recommended reading for all cyclists - Cyclecraft - Effective Cycling
    Condor Cycles - quite possibly the best bike shop in London
    Don't run red lights, wear a helmet, use hand signals, get some cycle lights(front and rear) and, FFS, don't run red lights!

  3. #3
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    Wow Bek, your powers to state the obvious never cease to amaze me.

    From what I remember reading here, from even the "VC Zealots" is that they tend to take the lane and move over to let overtaking traffic pass when it is safe to do so

    So in this instance, you have found that you can curb hug and allow the traffic to pass. So you are moving over when it is safe to do so.

    Often I find myself on 2 lane roads with 30-50mph posted speeds that have no shoulder. At best I have maybe 6in to the right of the fog line. Sometimes I have to "take the lane" because it would be unsafe to get squeezed. Most of the time however I find it is perfectly safe for me to move as far right as I can to allow the overtaking traffic to safely pass. I always want to be safe, but I also like to be as polite as possible.

    -D

  4. #4
    www.chipsea.blogspot.com ChipSeal's Avatar
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    "Yes, it's vehicular for a bicyclist to hug the curb of roads with lanes too narrow to be safely shared if the road is a 30mph road, because it's not in violation of the vehicular rules of the road to do that.


    Vehicular cycling encompasses any and all lane positions that are not in violation with the vehicular rules of the road. Vehicular cycling does not specify any one particular lane position for any particular situation. There are principles and guidelines. Follow them and you are cycling vehicularly. Are some vehicular positions better than others? Surely. But they're all vehicular, as long as riding in them does not violate the vehicular rules of the road."
    Vehicular cycling techniques have not been tried and found difficult. They have been presumed difficult and not tried.

  5. #5
    genec genec's Avatar
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    Com'on Bek... this is a troll for Forester...

    Just drop it. Consider best practices and promote those... don't be antagonistic.

  6. #6
    Yabba-Dabba-Doo! AlmostTrick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by genec View Post
    Com'on Bek... this is a troll for Forester...

    Just drop it. Consider best practices and promote those... don't be antagonistic.
    +1 This topic has been covered extensively already. Don't make me write another song.
    Have Bike, Will Travel

  7. #7
    -=Barry=- The Human Car's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlmostTrick View Post
    Don't make me write another song.
    More cowbell for the next song.
    Cycling Advocate
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  8. #8
    totally louche Bekologist's Avatar
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    what are you guys riding me for? I'm just pointing out a VC technique that gets underemphasized.

    complaining this is a troll? please. this subforum is expressly for all the nuances of vehicyular cycling.

  9. #9
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    Well I would say it is more of a Flamebait. Unfortunately the main target of a Bek Flambait thread has been perma banned. And the other one is missing his partner in crime so is likely not going to be around as much anymore.

    thanks everyone for tuning in to yet another episode of "Yep that was obvious" by your host Bekologist.

    Stay tuned for scenes from the next show.

    -D

  10. #10
    Senior Member rando's Avatar
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    I saw a cyclist curbhugging today. I also see a cyclist every day who looks like Jerry Garcia.
    "Think of bicycles as rideable art that can just about save the world". ~Grant Petersen

    Cyclists fare best when they recognize that there are times when acting vehicularly is not the best practice, and are flexible enough to do what is necessary as the situation warrants.--Me

  11. #11
    JRA
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    Senior Member JRA's Avatar
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    I saw a bicyclist today who was the spitting image of Jay Leno.
    "It may even be that motoring is more healthful than not motoring; death rates were certainly higher in the pre-motoring age."- John Forester
    "Laws cannot be properly understood as if written in plain English..."- Forester defending obfuscation.
    "Motorist propaganda, continued for sixty years, is what has put cyclists on sidewalks." - Forester, sociologist in his own mind
    "'There are no rules of the road on MUPs.' -John Forester" - Helmet Head quoting 'The Great One'

  12. #12
    Devilmaycare Cycling Fool Allister's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bekologist View Post
    THEN it came to me!!!! riding like a curbhugger can be a VC technique!!
    How exciting for you.
    If we learn from our mistakes, I must be a goddamn genius.

  13. #13
    8speed DinoSORAs Ed Holland's Avatar
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    Perhaps this should be titled "Stating the Obvious - A VC technique"

    Sorry, but I couldn't resist
    Get a bicycle. You will certainly not regret it, if you live.

  14. #14
    JRA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bekologist View Post
    what are you guys riding me for?
    Maybe because, with both Helmet Head and John Forester gone, your baiting is out of place. Baiting someone who can't respond is just lame.

    With both of HH and JF here, your trolling could be excused as a legitimate counter-balance to their lunacy (at least that's how I rationalized it).

    But that excuse is now gone.

    VC-ists discredited themselves with their tactics. You have adopted similar tactics, which can only serve to discredit opponents of VC-ism.

    It's called "shooting yourself in the foot" and, evidently, you haven't learned much from the ineffectiveness of the "shoot yourself in the foot" tactics that HH and JF made an artform.

    Go ahead. Take good aim.

    Hopefully, cooler and more rational heads will prevail.
    "It may even be that motoring is more healthful than not motoring; death rates were certainly higher in the pre-motoring age."- John Forester
    "Laws cannot be properly understood as if written in plain English..."- Forester defending obfuscation.
    "Motorist propaganda, continued for sixty years, is what has put cyclists on sidewalks." - Forester, sociologist in his own mind
    "'There are no rules of the road on MUPs.' -John Forester" - Helmet Head quoting 'The Great One'

  15. #15
    totally louche Bekologist's Avatar
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    y'aalll are RICH. "shooting myself in the foot?"

    I'm pointing out a vc technique- it has no bait quality.

    I'm illustrating curbhugging is allowed as a 'VC' road position, and because two incorrigible forum members CAN'T respond, I'M baiting?

    please. I'm pointing out curbhugging is a valid vehicycular cycling technique. I've got affirmation from chipseal, derath. markhr seems to disagree with me, but with video!

    curbugging can be vehicular.
    Last edited by Bekologist; 04-24-08 at 08:03 AM.

  16. #16
    POWERCRANK addict markhr's Avatar
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    shameless POWERCRANK plug
    Recommended reading for all cyclists - Cyclecraft - Effective Cycling
    Condor Cycles - quite possibly the best bike shop in London
    Don't run red lights, wear a helmet, use hand signals, get some cycle lights(front and rear) and, FFS, don't run red lights!

  17. #17
    totally louche Bekologist's Avatar
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    what do these links mean, Mark????

    what is your stance on riding as far right as practicable to allow faster traffic to pass, mark?

    I'm a VERY 'take the lane' kind of guy, btw, markhr...

  18. #18
    Sumanitu taka owaci LittleBigMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bekologist View Post
    Yet, a curious phenomenon occured- I found spots - no oncoming traffic, no parking on my side, etc,a few blocks to the next signalized intersection, etc... where i could ride right next to the curb- like 6-8" away and let cars pass me. It wasn't in violation of any of my safety standards, and was 'vehicular' in operation.

    THEN it came to me!!!! riding like a curbhugger can be a VC technique!!
    I can ride within a couple of inches of obstacles on the right. But why?
    No worries

  19. #19
    totally louche Bekologist's Avatar
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    ah, as far right as practicable to allow motorists to pass. you could ride that far right if it behooved you to conveinence the motorists, despite a lane being considered too narrow to share. coz curbhugging - it's sometimes VC!

  20. #20
    Sumanitu taka owaci LittleBigMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bekologist View Post
    ah, as far right as practicable to allow motorists to pass. you could ride that far right if it behooved you to conveinence the motorists, despite a lane being considered too narrow to share. coz curbhugging - it's sometimes VC!
    ...and gasoline is getting cheaper everyday...

    No worries

  21. #21
    Senior Member Catweazle's Avatar
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    I haven't been around here for the great debates or the pre-bannings shenanigans, so I'm not too concerned with what's been said before, done to death, or whatever else. I'm merely reading this thread, and seeing what I'd consider to be a nonsense.



    Simple fact of the road? If two vehicles are travelling in the same direction and occupying the same lane there is nothing 'vehicularly' legitimate about the practice. It's dangerous driving, in anybody's definition. It is quite illogical to postulate some theorum of 'vehicular cycling' and then attempt to accomodate practice such as this within it. That's a nonsense. It's an exercise in saying "We've got this great idea, but it doesn't really work all the time so we won't really do it all the time!" Might as well jettison the grandiose espoused principles, methinks! Bugger being a hypocrite!


    Bikes aren't cars. They're different. Bikes can travel in the traffic when it's safe and sensible to do so, and bikes can travel out of the traffic when it's safe and sensible to do so. If I drive my car down along the highway shoulder I'm gonna get arrested. Ride my bike down there and it's perfectly acceptable.


    I've been reading this stuff for a while now, and can't get beyond the notion that the espousal of 'vehicular cycling is little more than word-******y which intrudes. An imaginary construct which distracts from safe and sensible riding practices by trying to restrictively categorise.


    This post isn't intended as trollage or flamebait, by the way, although doubtless some people will choose to view it as such. It's simply an honest reflection on what I've read here. The concept of 'vehicular cycling' is well and good, to my way of thinking, and espouses fine (honourable?) principles. But it's merely one facet of cycling, and not a concept which can hope to be descriptive of an all-encompassing approach to cycling on the road network.

    IMO.

  22. #22
    8speed DinoSORAs Ed Holland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Catweazle View Post
    IMO.
    Bloody well put though
    Get a bicycle. You will certainly not regret it, if you live.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by catweazle
    I haven't been around here for the great debates or the pre-bannings shenanigans, so I'm not too concerned with what's been said before, done to death, or whatever else. I'm merely reading this thread, and seeing what I'd consider to be a nonsense.
    Welcome to a Bek VC thread. They used to be midly amusing when he used them to bait those "VC zealots" (ya know the ones who end up getting banned).

    Now threads by Bek "Captain Obvious" ologist are just silly.

    -D

  24. #24
    totally louche Bekologist's Avatar
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    my, such thinly veiled contempt.

    you agree with my POV, yet you call my pointing it out is silly?

    riding near the curb, even in a narrow lane, does not necessarily violate any rules of the road, so vehicular cyclists can curbhug and possibly even dodge in between breaks in lines of parked cars and not violate the rules of the road.

    derath has the audacity to call my threads silly, yet he agrees with my POV, and point out his own situations he can do the same in a narrow lane. I don't know what's sillier.


    this subforum was created expressly to discuss all the nuances of vehicycular cycling ,derath. and stop pissing and moaning- you agree with my point of view.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bekologist View Post
    my, such thinly veiled contempt.

    you agree with my POV, yet you call my pointing it out is silly?

    riding near the curb, even in a narrow lane, does not necessarily violate any rules of the road, so vehicular cyclists can curbhug and possibly even dodge in between breaks in lines of parked cars and not violate the rules of the road.

    derath has the audacity to call my threads silly, yet he agrees with my POV, and point out his own situations he can do the same in a narrow lane. I don't know what's sillier.


    this subforum was created expressly to discuss all the nuances of vehicycular cycling ,derath. and stop pissing and moaning- you agree with my point of view.
    Bek,

    You gloss over the important details my friend.

    Yes I agreed with your POV. Like I would agree if you made a post saying "on a nice day the sky is blue" Sure I agree because it is OBVIOUS.

    Yes this subforum is for discussing the nuances of VC. But this thread isn't anything new. You are restating the obvious.

    The standard VC mantra I have seen goes something like "Moving right to let same direction traffic pass when it is safe to do so"

    What you have stated is that you feel it is safe to move right and curbhug to let safe direction traffic pass A restatement of the above line, which is restating the obvious. Yet you start a thread as if you thought up something new.

    Sorry, try again.

    -D

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