Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst ... 234
Results 76 to 87 of 87
  1. #76
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    4,069
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by genec View Post
    Do motorists follow the legal definitions and rules of the facilities about which you write? If they did, there would be far fewer conflicts between motorists and cyclists.
    <redacted by moderator>. Motorists don't obey the legal definitions of facilities; those are supposed to be obeyed by the facility designers.
    Last edited by Allen; 11-06-09 at 12:58 PM.

  2. #77
    totally louche Bekologist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    A land that time forgot
    My Bikes
    the ever shifting stable loaded with comfortable road bikes and city and winter bikes
    Posts
    18,016
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    let's try to stay on point, shall we?

    Quote Originally Posted by the impact of transportation infrastructure on bicycling safety
    Evidence is beginning to accumulate that purpose-built bicycle-specific facilities reduce crashes and injuries among cyclists, providing the basis for initial transportation engineering guidelines for cyclist safety.
    "Evidence, anecdote and methodology all support planning for roadway bike traffic."

  3. #78
    Senior Member meanwhile's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    3,747
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by John Forester View Post
    Don't be such a blatant liar. Me, creating American club cycling? That group had to exist for me to observe it.
    You're being pointlessly abusive and immature. You said


    Club cyclists in the years of Kaplan's study were largely vehicular cyclists, based on my hundreds of hours of experience with them
    I know several people who prefer, for instance, Robert Hurst's more pragmatic approach and who insist that sometimes behaving in a non vehicular manner is bloody useful in city traffic - eg positioning aggressively at lights, executing manoeuvres like the messengers hook. So genec was correct to ask

    How are vehicular cyclists created today... in your reply above you essentially created the control group and then determined that they were correct by your metrics alone
    And, unless you are very stupid indeed, you know that he meant something like "JF defined the group of vehicular cyclists at whim and by prejudice and simply identified their success with his methods". Not that you invented club cycling!
    Last edited by meanwhile; 11-06-09 at 01:12 PM.

  4. #79
    genec genec's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    san diego
    My Bikes
    custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2
    Posts
    22,530
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by John Forester View Post
    Don't be such a blatant liar. Me, creating American club cycling? That group had to exist for me to observe it.

    Yes, there is no present program for creating vehicular cyclists, because people with the absurd beliefs in popular, and hence cyclist-inferiority, cycling on bikeways, opposed it and hijacked it, with the assistance, of course, of the motoring establishment that designed the system.
    Sorry, I misread it based on this statement: "Club cyclists in the years of Kaplan's study were largely vehicular cyclists, based on my hundreds of hours of experience with them, and many discussions among them."

    I had and have no intention of being a "blatant liar." But certainly your harsh responses are indeed legendarily unfriendly.

    **********************

    So getting back on message, apparently no new vehicular cyclists are being created, according to your standards?

  5. #80
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    4,069
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by meanwhile View Post
    You're being pointlessly abusive and immature. You said



    I know several people who prefer, for instance, Robert Hurst's more pragmatic approach and who insist that sometimes behaving in a non vehicular manner is bloody useful in city traffic - eg positioning aggressively at lights, executing manoeuvres like the messengers hook. So genec was correct to ask



    And, unless you are very stupid indeed, you know that he meant something like "JF defined the group of vehicular cyclists at whim and by prejudice and simply identified their success with his methods". Not that you invented club cycling!
    The group you are discussing existed without me putting them into a classification, and they obeyed the rules of the road for drivers of vehicles. That is not something that I could create by whim. Whether that group did so is a matter of fact.

  6. #81
    Super Moderator Allen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Atomic batteries to power; turbines to speed
    My Bikes
    Salsa La Raza, Panasonic Electric, Bria, Bamboo touring, Bamboo cargo
    Posts
    4,682
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Ease up on the name calling guys.

  7. #82
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    4,069
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by meanwhile View Post
    You're being pointlessly abusive and immature. You said



    I know several people who prefer, for instance, Robert Hurst's more pragmatic approach and who insist that sometimes behaving in a non vehicular manner is bloody useful in city traffic - eg positioning aggressively at lights, executing manoeuvres like the messengers hook. So genec was correct to ask



    And, unless you are very stupid indeed, you know that he meant something like "JF defined the group of vehicular cyclists at whim and by prejudice and simply identified their success with his methods". Not that you invented club cycling!
    The fact that some cyclists prefer Hurst's messenger style cycling is just as immaterial as the fact that most people prefer cyclist-inferiority style cycling. Bicycle messengers are known to have a high crash rate, but whether that is a high crash rate per mile is unknown. However, the messenger style of cycling is quite properly opposed as a dangerous nuisance by the general public who have been exposed to it. That is sufficient for me to disapprove of it.

  8. #83
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Burlington Iowa
    My Bikes
    Vaterland and Ragazzi
    Posts
    19,507
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by John Forester View Post
    Me, creating American club cycling? That group had to exist for me to observe it.
    And what does Forester's biased observation of a group of club cyclists he selected have to do with their unmeasured, unrecorded safety record, or the safety record of the cyclists cited in the Kaplan study, or ANY of the cycling groups cited in the meta analysis that Forester uses to makes his WAG claims about the fantastic safety record of vehicular cyclists?

    A Big Fat Goose Egg of Zero!

  9. #84
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Burlington Iowa
    My Bikes
    Vaterland and Ragazzi
    Posts
    19,507
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by John Forester View Post
    Bicycle messengers are known to have a high crash rate, but whether that is a high crash rate per mile is unknown. However, the messenger style of cycling is quite properly opposed as a dangerous nuisance by the general public who have been exposed to it. That is sufficient for me to disapprove of it.
    "High Crash Rate"?

    "high crash rate per mile"?

    What the heck is that meaningless term supposed to mean in relation to safety or cycling risk?

    The use of the term "crash rate" as an indicator of cycling risk is the mark of a Safety Charlatan.

    BTW, who the heck cares if John Forester disapproves any style of cycling?

  10. #85
    genec genec's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    san diego
    My Bikes
    custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2
    Posts
    22,530
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by John Forester View Post
    As I said, Bicycle Transportation was first published in 1977, and is available in many libraries.
    It is NOT available in the San Diego Public Library. "Effective Cycling" is available, but "Bicycle Transportation" is not.

    Your book is not even available in the largest public library system near your current home town. Is it any wonder that so few people are aware of your great works?

    Results 1-5 of 5 available (with 2 duplicates) for "author contains John and Forester" (7 total)
    Publisher: MIT Press,
    Pub date: 1993.
    Pages: xxv, 599 p. :
    ISBN: 0262061597
    Item info: 8 copies available at Central Library, Balboa, College-Rolando, Mira Mesa, North Park, Otay Mesa-Nestor, Tierrasanta, and Valencia Park/Malcolm X.
    796.6/FORESTER
    Your book "Bicycle Transportation" is also not available in any San Diego County Library. Meaning it is not even available in your home town of Lemon Grove. You might want to consider donating a book to at least your home town library if you really expect anyone to read and become aware of your studies.

    There is ONE used edition available on Amazon.com. It costs $300.

    http://www.amazon.com/Bicycle-Transp...7571641&sr=8-1

    John, do you really want people, even cyclists, to know this information?

    Is it any wonder that so many cyclists prefer "inferior cycling" in bike lanes?

    It is cheaper to get a driver's license than to learn "Bicycle Transportation."

  11. #86
    totally louche Bekologist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    A land that time forgot
    My Bikes
    the ever shifting stable loaded with comfortable road bikes and city and winter bikes
    Posts
    18,016
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    woh cares? there's a much more relevant studies and directions being charted about bicycling transportation, gene.

    for our sake, leave john forester's wild conjectures about 'bicycle transportation engineering' in the dustbins of failed theories and forgotten history.

    THIS thread showcases a great compilation of bicycle traffic safety studies. Why air someone else's dirty, fossilized laundry and soil everything with it?
    Last edited by Bekologist; 11-07-09 at 06:54 PM.
    "Evidence, anecdote and methodology all support planning for roadway bike traffic."

  12. #87
    Senior Member gcottay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Green Valley AZ
    My Bikes
    Trice Q; Volae Century; TT 3.4
    Posts
    3,772
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I am coming to believe that if the goal is to discredit a particular point of view one could do much worse than engaging John Forester as an advocate for it.
    George
    Laissez les bon temps rouler

Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst ... 234

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •