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  1. #1
    CRIKEY!!!!!!! Cyclaholic's Avatar
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    Just so we're clear

    Just so we're clear on the whole 'take the lane' thing, what we're doing is putting our lives in the hands of the person driving that 2-tonne meat grinder quickly approaching us from behind, and that person could very well be someone just like these...





    If you're OK with that then more power to you, but I will take segregated facilities or the sidewalk before putting my life in those hands.

  2. #2
    genec genec's Avatar
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    Yikes! And remember these are only the ones that got recorded and sent to youtube.
    Last edited by genec; 02-19-10 at 08:33 AM.

  3. #3
    thompsonpost
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    Funny thing is the lady in the car didn't really get any help. If she forgets the phone call she's screwed again.

    This is a hoot, too.

  4. #4
    genec genec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thompsonpost View Post
    Funny thing is the lady in the car didn't really get any help. If she forgets the phone call she's screwed again.

    This is a hoot, too.
    no doubt she's probably the type that just yaks away at the phone all day while driving... clueless bimbo!

  5. #5
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    Riding on the sidewalk is illegal in many places, and is actually less safe than riding on the street. The last cyclist killed in a collison here--or at least the last one that made the paper--was killed while riding on the sidewalk, the wrong way on a one-way street. A woman pulled out of a parking garage and naturally was not expecting a cyclist on the sidewalk coming from the wrong direction.

  6. #6
    Coffee Powered commuter markus_mudd's Avatar
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    Wonder if the woman pulling out of the parking garage was aware that sidewalks aren't one-way and there could have been joggers, children, and even bicycles coming from both directions. It's her responsibility to look both ways crossing the sidewalk and the cyclist probably should have slowed down and paid more attention.
    Last edited by markus_mudd; 02-19-10 at 02:33 PM.

  7. #7
    Senior Member gcottay's Avatar
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    Uninteresting bit of trolling, this.
    George
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  8. #8
    genec genec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elkhound View Post
    Riding on the sidewalk is illegal in many places, and is actually less safe than riding on the street. The last cyclist killed in a collison here--or at least the last one that made the paper--was killed while riding on the sidewalk, the wrong way on a one-way street. A woman pulled out of a parking garage and naturally was not expecting a cyclist on the sidewalk coming from the wrong direction.
    Was she expecting pedestrians "coming from the wrong direction?"

    I've watched countless motorists look only one way as they enter a road while making right turns on red or while entering a road from a parking lot... they simply never look to the right... and thus have no clue that anyone (bike or otherwise) can be there. (this IS one of those car slapping situations, BTW.)

  9. #9
    genec genec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gcottay View Post
    Uninteresting bit of trolling, this.
    Oh I donno, I got a chuckle out of it...

  10. #10
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    Hypotheticals like this always leave out one salient point that makes the whole drama go away -- in this case, the idea that the '2-tonne meat grinder' is always driven by someone like the careless fools in the vids, or someone who immediately reaches critical road-rage mass upon seeing a bike in the road. Also, there's the idea that there are roads that won't be cluttered with meat grinders at every moment -- y'know, like side streets and such.

    Play with your routes whenever you can; seek variety. Keeps things fresh. And you will more likely find that 'magic' route that only sees a reckless driver once every 100,000 drivers.

  11. #11
    genec genec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DX-MAN View Post
    Hypotheticals like this always leave out one salient point that makes the whole drama go away -- in this case, the idea that the '2-tonne meat grinder' is always driven by someone like the careless fools in the vids, or someone who immediately reaches critical road-rage mass upon seeing a bike in the road. Also, there's the idea that there are roads that won't be cluttered with meat grinders at every moment -- y'know, like side streets and such.

    Play with your routes whenever you can; seek variety. Keeps things fresh. And you will more likely find that 'magic' route that only sees a reckless driver once every 100,000 drivers.
    But it only takes ONE!

  12. #12
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    Even 1 bad driver in 100,000 not so good odds over time for frequent cyclists.

    Quote Originally Posted by DX-MAN View Post
    ... there are roads that won't be cluttered with meat grinders at every moment -- y'know, like side streets and such. Play with your routes whenever you can; seek variety. Keeps things fresh. And you will more likely find that 'magic' route that only sees a reckless driver once every 100,000 drivers.
    Consider someone taking a not extremely busy route who encounters just 8 cars per day of biking commuting 5 days/week for 25 weeks/year. That would be 1,000 such encounters per year. Do that for 10 years for 10,000 motor vehicle encounters. Odds you are not hit would be 0.99999^10,000 = 0.9048369 or about 90%. Over 20 years it is only 82% you would go motor vehicle collision free. Only a tiny percent of inattentive, incompetent, etc. drivers is needed to have the odds of a collision with a motor vehicle 1 in 10 to 1 in 5 for a frequent cyclist.

    As you suggest, taking the side roads is often a way to tilt the odds more in a cyclist's favor. And that is one of the things I do.

    It also makes me think (or hope) the odds of a really drunk, etc. driver are less than 1 in 100,000.
    Last edited by Giro; 02-19-10 at 06:01 PM.

  13. #13
    genec genec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giro View Post
    Consider someone taking a not extremely busy route who encounters just 8 cars per day of biking commuting 5 days/week for 25 weeks/year. That would be 1,000 such encounters per year. Do that for 10 years for 10,000 motor vehicle encounters. Odds you are not hit would be 0.99999^10,000 = 0.9048369 or about 90%. Over 20 years it is only 82% you would go motor vehicle collision free. Only a tiny percent of inattentive, incompetent, etc. drivers is needed to have the odds of a collision with a motor vehicle 1 in 10 to 1 in 5 for a frequent cyclist.

    As you suggest, taking the side roads is often a way to tilt the odds more in a cyclist's favor. And that is one of the things I do.

    It also makes me think (or hope) the odds of a really drunk, etc. driver are less than 1 in 100,000.
    So if good drivers are 99% of all the motorists out there, 1 in 100 is a bad/distracted/drunk driver... The odds don't look that great for a cyclist on busy roads.

  14. #14
    Tawp Dawg GriddleCakes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giro View Post
    Consider someone taking a not extremely busy route who encounters just 8 cars per day of biking commuting 5 days/week for 25 weeks/year. That would be 1,000 such encounters per year. Do that for 10 years for 10,000 motor vehicle encounters. Odds you are not hit would be 0.99999^10,000 = 0.9048369 or about 90%.
    No, by your calculation the odds are 90% that you won't encounter a reckless driver, not avoid being hit. Not every pass/encounter by a reckless driver is a guaranteed collision. Of course, not every collision is caused by habitually reckless drivers, either. Even good drivers can have a bad moment.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by GriddleCakes View Post
    No, by your calculation the odds are 90% that you won't encounter a reckless driver, not avoid being hit. Not every pass/encounter by a reckless driver is a guaranteed collision. Of course, not every collision is caused by habitually reckless drivers, either. Even good drivers can have a bad moment.
    In the hypothetical example, the previous poster posited a driver that would be highly likely to collide with the cyclist. The point is that even if an event seems rare, if it you experience this risk numerous times it becomes surprisingly probable it will happen to you at least once.

    To be sure, if a motorist is extremely impaired, they probably do not get far before colliding with a lamp post etc. The dangerous motorists are those impaired within a range where they can keep the car on the road but have a relatively high probabliity (say, 1 in 1000) of colliding with a cyclist because cyclists are encountered less frequently, are less visible, etc. To that end, minimizing the number of encounters with motor vehicles is a good strategy provided it does not create other hazardous situations. One that affects my commuting route choice is mid-block crossings by bike paths, particularly where parked cars obscure the sight lines. I take the bike path for about two miles because it has only three grade-level crossings, all mid-block. However, once the path has a mid-block crossing about every 200 feet, I take the side streets with minimal motorized traffic and change the hazards I look for (e.g. potholes, L&R crosses, etc.).

  16. #16
    Senior Member dougmc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by genec View Post
    Yikes! And remember these are only the ones that got recorded and sent to youtube.
    In general, 911 calls are all recorded, and available via FOIA requests (or maybe you could just ask?) Though you're right about those that make it to youtube ...

    As for the original troll, we're aware of the dangers of riding in the street and riding on the sidewalk, and we generally make an informed decision. Troll fail.

  17. #17
    Fresh Garbage hairnet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dougmc View Post
    As for the original troll, we're aware of the dangers of riding in the street and riding on the sidewalk, and we generally make an informed decision. Troll fail.
    +1

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrodzilla View Post
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  18. #18
    Bicikli Huszár sudo bike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclaholic View Post
    If you're OK with that then more power to you, but I will take segregated facilities or the sidewalk before putting my life in those hands.
    1) Statistically one of the rarest accidents.

    2) You can still be killed (and apparently at a higher rate, actually) on the sidewalk. Or even bike lanes, etc.

    3) Try again.
    "The bicycle is the noblest invention of mankind. I love the bicycle. I always have. I can think of no sincere, decent human being, male or female, young or old, saint or sinner, who can resist the bicycle."

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  19. #19
    Bicikli Huszár sudo bike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hairnet View Post
    +1

    Anti-literacy dogs!
    "The bicycle is the noblest invention of mankind. I love the bicycle. I always have. I can think of no sincere, decent human being, male or female, young or old, saint or sinner, who can resist the bicycle."

    - William Saroyan

  20. #20
    Senior Member dougmc's Avatar
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    Well, the sidewalk isn't exactly safe either ...


    etc.

  21. #21
    Senior Member rando's Avatar
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    You have to use some common sense when picking routes. I don't ride my bike on the 5-lane 40-55 mph urban freeway that I take to work when I'm driving my truck. I've seen people do it on a bike, but it's not for me.
    "Think of bicycles as rideable art that can just about save the world". ~Grant Petersen

    Cyclists fare best when they recognize that there are times when acting vehicularly is not the best practice, and are flexible enough to do what is necessary as the situation warrants.--Me

  22. #22
    genec genec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudo bike View Post
    1) Statistically one of the rarest accidents.

    2) You can still be killed (and apparently at a higher rate, actually) on the sidewalk. Or even bike lanes, etc.

    3) Try again.
    Killed at a higher rate in BL... is that perhaps because bike lanes are at the side of the road where most cyclists statistically ride? That is like saying that MUPs are more dangerous because there are more collisions there... and how often do MUP collisions lead to death?

    Take away the BL stripes and most cyclists are killed at the side of the road, get cyclists to ride somewhere else on the road, and it still comes down to most cyclists are killed by motor vehicles.

    Nice twist on statistics. Lies, damn lies and statistics...

  23. #23
    genec genec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rando View Post
    You have to use some common sense when picking routes. I don't ride my bike on the 5-lane 40-55 mph urban freeway that I take to work when I'm driving my truck. I've seen people do it on a bike, but it's not for me.
    What if that is the ONLY road? Then how would you get to A from B?

  24. #24
    Senior Member rando's Avatar
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    Truthfully? I'm not sure I'd ever ride my bike to work.
    "Think of bicycles as rideable art that can just about save the world". ~Grant Petersen

    Cyclists fare best when they recognize that there are times when acting vehicularly is not the best practice, and are flexible enough to do what is necessary as the situation warrants.--Me

  25. #25
    Al noisebeam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rando View Post
    You have to use some common sense when picking routes. I don't ride my bike on the 5-lane 40-55 mph urban freeway that I take to work when I'm driving my truck. I've seen people do it on a bike, but it's not for me.
    It is illegal to cycle on all the urban freeways in metro Phx. They may be 40-55 during rush hour, but they are posted at 55 or 65mph.

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