Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 26 to 50 of 98
  1. #26
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Sacramento
    My Bikes
    SR, Bianchi, Raleigh, Bertin, Kona, Schwinn, Eisentraut, Zunow, Columbine, Naked, Nishiki, Phillips, Specialized, Giant
    Posts
    287
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by DX-MAN View Post
    Who's confused? The people who make the laws, and that's because they listen to the rustle of money in their ears first.

    Answering a cop's questions abridges your rights? Really? Sorry, but your privacy gets checked at your front door in society; you enter the public domain, and your right to privacy is subjugated to the right of society to be orderly. Questioning you isn't the same as going through your pockets.
    Actually the privacy of my thoughts, intentions, and spoken word are all more sacred than the contents of my pockets.
    And then what may be in my pockets (or backpack or trunk) is only subject to search if I have given probable cause.
    We are weak in this country when it comes to knowing and retaining our rights. We are easily persuaded by "good of society" notions that result in more taxes, regulation, inspection, intrusion, and whatever else the "state" can dream up.

  2. #27
    Huachuca Rider webist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Charlotte, NC
    My Bikes
    Fuji CCR1, Specialized Roubaix
    Posts
    4,274
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    What do you get in return for the tax you pay on your pet?
    Revenue for the government is the ONLY motivation for such an idea.
    Just Peddlin' Around

  3. #28
    2 Fat 2 Furious contango's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    England
    My Bikes
    2009 Specialized Rockhopper Comp Disc, 2009 Specialized Tricross Sport
    Posts
    3,989
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by nealhe View Post
    Hello All,

    Should pedal bicycles be licensed?

    http://dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d16_7/vc39001.htm

    The fees collected could be used for provident purposes to benefit the cycling community at large.

    With more money safer facilities could be constructed.

    If cyclists use the roads why should they not pay as motorists do?

    Are we freeloaders?

    Cheers,

    Neal
    Impractical to do to the point of being impossible.

    When you're licensing a car there are lots of places you can stick a prominent tag displaying the registration information. So anyone can see at a glance if a car has the appropriate registration, whether that's in the form of a number plate, tax disc (as we have in the UK) or whatever else is put in place.

    A bicycle doesn't have anywhere that lends itself to any form of license registration plate. Such a plate would either be so large as to cause problems with either aerodynamics or simply being damaged or destroyed by snagging on things (along with the potential safety implications of a plate snagging on things at any speed), or so small it couldn't be read from any distance. Microchips, RFID devices etc may work but would be expensive and could only be read by people within range and who had the appropriate equipment.

    In many ways a bike is a go-anywhere vehicle in ways a car simply isn't. An irresponsible cyclist could easily remove a larger number plate and claim it must have been broken off when they swerved to avoid some obstacle, or easily obscure a smaller number plate and, in the event they were spotted by the police they could take off across paths, fields, roads, whatever, to avoid capture. A police officer in a car would be unable to follow and a police officer on foot would be too slow. So such a system might allow the normally law-abiding to be fined for committing infrequent offences while also paying for such enforcement to take place, although the scofflaw elements would simply be able to evade it at every turn. In the meantime the costs of administering such a scheme would most likely soak up most or all of any benefits that might arise.

    When arguments like "with more money safer facilities could be constructed" the first question would have to be just what sort of facilities might be constructed and how they would be safer. Many people regard segregated cycle lanes as being safer but personally I'd rather ride in the road than travel along a parallel but segregated "cycleway" where I'm sharing the space with small children on scooters, dogs, people walking all over the path oblivious to everything except their iPod and so on.

    Others have already touched on the issue of the wear and tear caused to the road by cyclists and the prospect of charging people to walk on tarmac.

  4. #29
    2 Fat 2 Furious contango's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    England
    My Bikes
    2009 Specialized Rockhopper Comp Disc, 2009 Specialized Tricross Sport
    Posts
    3,989
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Of course another issue would relate to childrens' bikes. Put little Jimmy on a bike with training wheels only to find he strayed off your driveway and onto a public area and there's a cop wanting to fine you for letting him ride without a license? No thanks. What happens when Jimmy can balance without the training wheels and rides to school? Does he need a permit? If so the cost-effective method of letting kids ride to school just got expensive.

    If little Jimmy doesn't need a license to ride to school, at what point does he need a license? When he's 15? 18? 21? How long before cops end up either diverted to challenging kids who are 17 but look 18 why they don't have a license, or ignoring the rule altogether? Will we demand that children carry identification documents so they can cycle to school?

  5. #30
    Resident smartass. Fargo Wolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Kamloops, BC, Canada
    Posts
    275
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by contango View Post
    Impractical to do to the point of being impossible.

    When you're licensing a car there are lots of places you can stick a prominent tag displaying the registration information. So anyone can see at a glance if a car has the appropriate registration, whether that's in the form of a number plate, tax disc (as we have in the UK) or whatever else is put in place.

    A bicycle doesn't have anywhere that lends itself to any form of license registration plate. Such a plate would either be so large as to cause problems with either aerodynamics or simply being damaged or destroyed by snagging on things (along with the potential safety implications of a plate snagging on things at any speed), or so small it couldn't be read from any distance. Microchips, RFID devices etc may work but would be expensive and could only be read by people within range and who had the appropriate equipment.
    Not necessarily. IF bikes are ever required to have a number plate and validation decal, it would probably be the same size as those issued to motorcycles/non-commercial trailers. These are generally smaller than plates issued to vehicles. As for a mounting spot, it could be attached to the underside of the bike seat or to the bike's rear rack.

    Quote Originally Posted by contango View Post
    Of course another issue would relate to childrens' bikes. Put little Jimmy on a bike with training wheels only to find he strayed off your driveway and onto a public area and there's a cop wanting to fine you for letting him ride without a license? No thanks. What happens when Jimmy can balance without the training wheels and rides to school? Does he need a permit? If so the cost-effective method of letting kids ride to school just got expensive.

    If little Jimmy doesn't need a license to ride to school, at what point does he need a license? When he's 15? 18? 21?
    It wouldn't apply to young children IF such a scheme is ever implemented. To that end, Jimmy would be exempt till his 16th B-Day, when he would be required to get a numberplate/insurance.

  6. #31
    2 Fat 2 Furious contango's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    England
    My Bikes
    2009 Specialized Rockhopper Comp Disc, 2009 Specialized Tricross Sport
    Posts
    3,989
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Fargo Wolf View Post
    Not necessarily. IF bikes are ever required to have a number plate and validation decal, it would probably be the same size as those issued to motorcycles/non-commercial trailers. These are generally smaller than plates issued to vehicles. As for a mounting spot, it could be attached to the underside of the bike seat or to the bike's rear rack.
    That wouldn't work on bikes that have a saddle bag or no rear rack, and still fails to consider that a bicycle is considerably smaller than a motorcycle.

    It wouldn't apply to young children IF such a scheme is ever implemented. To that end, Jimmy would be exempt till his 16th B-Day, when he would be required to get a numberplate/insurance.
    So now you've got people on the road without tags who may need them but may not. Any passing police officer has to figure out if the young person riding the bike is 15 (and therefore not needing a tag) or 16 (and therefore riding illegally). Is Jimmy expected to carry proof of ID to demonstrate that he's only 15, and if so what form of ID should he have and how much will that cost?

  7. #32
    Banned.
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    2,325
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    The solution is simple. Require all persons operating a vehicle of any kind on a public facility to have an implanted RFID chip... That way the authorities will not even need to initiate a stop to just check id.

  8. #33
    genec genec's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    san diego
    My Bikes
    custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2
    Posts
    22,686
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by myrridin View Post
    The solution is simple. Require all persons operating a vehicle of any kind on a public facility to have an implanted RFID chip... That way the authorities will not even need to initiate a stop to just check id.
    Let's not forget the mandatory 666 tattoo.

    So you are proposing that the majority of the nation get some RFID tag? How about if we just tag those that NEVER use a public roadway instead...

  9. #34
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    4,793
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Chief View Post
    Actually the privacy of my thoughts, intentions, and spoken word are all more sacred than the contents of my pockets.
    And then what may be in my pockets (or backpack or trunk) is only subject to search if I have given probable cause.
    We are weak in this country when it comes to knowing and retaining our rights. We are easily persuaded by "good of society" notions that result in more taxes, regulation, inspection, intrusion, and whatever else the "state" can dream up.
    Thoughts -- sure, they remain free, you can THINK, "F U, PIG!" when he approaches you, with total impunity.

    Intentions -- there is no crime against INTENDING to do anything. . . until it's done. THEN the intent can be used.

    Spoken word, there is no privacy in public. Once you speak in the presence of another, you have AGREED to give up your privacy to that expression of thought.

    Probable cause. . . and "REASONABLE SUSPICION".

    What we are weak at in this country is knowing the RESPONSIBILITIES that go hand-in-hand with our RIGHTS (none of which are absolute, BTW). Most "good of society" claims for the reasons you list are spin by the special interests that support those simple-focus ideas. (Don't blame the liar if you take him at his word.) A thinking person can tell the difference between a CLAIM of "good for society", and the reality of it.

    Because we live in a 'civilized' society, there is give and take; no one has absolute rights. We all have to give up a little to get along; those that don't can generally be found in prison. The strongest idea I put forth, to my kids and anyone who cares to listen, is this: IF YOU WANT THE BENEFITS OF A CIVILIZED SOCIETY, YOU MUST FOLLOW THAT SOCIETY'S RULES.

    The degree of personal rights your seem to espouse is under the heading of anarchy.

    I'm not telling you to trust every yokel that comes along with a "good of society" argument; HELL, DON'T TRUST ME, IF YOU DON'T WISH TO (I really don't care, we don't know each other). But don't try and tell me that you have any absolute rights, either. You don't even have a right to BREATH, and a higher power (which you may or may not accept as real) will one day remind you of that.

  10. #35
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    4,793
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by genec View Post
    Let's not forget the mandatory 666 tattoo.

    So you are proposing that the majority of the nation get some RFID tag? How about if we just tag those that NEVER use a public roadway instead...
    GeneC -- dude -- you just uncovered the identity of the AntiChrist!

  11. #36
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    San Diego, CA USA
    Posts
    389
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by nealhe View Post
    Should pedal bicycles be licensed?

    http://dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d16_7/vc39001.htm


    The fees collected could be used for provident purposes to benefit the
    cycling community at large.


    With more money safer facilities could be constructed.


    If cyclists use the roads why should they not pay as motorists do?
    Funny you should pick that law and ignore this one:

    http://dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d16_7/vc39004.htm

    Maximum fee for the first year: $4
    Maximum renewal fee per year: $2

    Yeah, they'll make loads of money off that.....

    Even if they adopted the pricing schedule that they use for cars, that is based upon vehicle value and age. Cheaper cars have lower fees. Older cars have lower fees. I wonder what my 20+ year old bike that I paid $275 for will cost me to register?

    Bicyclists already pay plenty for the roads.

    http://cdn.publicinterestnetwork.org...elves_-wUS.pdf

    Check out page 6 of this one:

    http://www.vtpi.org/whoserd.pdf
    Last edited by billdsd; 11-16-11 at 07:37 PM.

  12. #37
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    South Carolina
    Posts
    72
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I would support a bicycle riders license just because most bicyclists in my town are complete idiots. They treat their adult bikes as children's toys. If they had to take a simple test that basically acknowledges how to legally ride I think some of the crap they do would be less common. It would be a lot of trouble to implement though.

    Practically I think a mandatory helmet law would help people be more aware that they are not riding a toy.

  13. #38
    Still spinnin'..... Stealthammer's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Whitestown, IN
    My Bikes
    Fisher Opie freeride/urban assault MTB, Redline Monocog 29er MTB, Serrota T-Max Commuter, Klein Rascal SS, Salsa Campion Road bike, Pake Rum Runner FG/SS Road bike, Cannondale Synapse Road bike, Santana Arriva Road Tandem, and others....
    Posts
    1,195
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by nealhe View Post
    Should pedal bicycles be licensed?
    .....The fees collected could be used for provident purposes to benefit the
    cycling community at large.
    Don't fool yourself Neal, none of those licensing fees will be spent to improve cycling safety or anything cycling related. They wiil be hijacked and used as Sacramento decides.....
    Just your average 'high-functioning' lunatic, capable of passing as 'normal' for short periods of time.....

    “The difference between genius and stupidity is; genius has its limits.” - Albert Einstein

    “We all know that light travels faster than sound. That's why certain people appear bright until you hear them speak.” - Albert Einstein

  14. #39
    2 Fat 2 Furious contango's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    England
    My Bikes
    2009 Specialized Rockhopper Comp Disc, 2009 Specialized Tricross Sport
    Posts
    3,989
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by yellowsirocco View Post
    I would support a bicycle riders license just because most bicyclists in my town are complete idiots. They treat their adult bikes as children's toys. If they had to take a simple test that basically acknowledges how to legally ride I think some of the crap they do would be less common. It would be a lot of trouble to implement though.

    Practically I think a mandatory helmet law would help people be more aware that they are not riding a toy.
    So how would you round up the irresponsible cyclists who still took to the road without taking their test?
    "For a list of ways technology has failed to improve quality of life, press three"

  15. #40
    24-Speed Machine Chris516's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Wash. Grove, MD
    My Bikes
    2003 Specialized Allez 24-Speed Road Bike
    Posts
    4,994
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    To the OP, pedal cycles as opposed to? There are also handcycles and unicycles. I have also seen handcycles on the road. So what about them too.

    Also, If they are to be licensed, shouldn't the state statutes' reflect the change by including bicycles in the respective states' definition of a vehicle in the state statutes?
    Last edited by Chris516; 01-11-12 at 10:06 PM.

  16. #41
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    138
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    are you going to start charging people for walking or farting too?

    I have a better idea, why not publicly execute the moron responsible for thinking of this legislation, I'm sure that will save a whole lot of CO2.

  17. #42
    Dog is my co-pilot 2manybikes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    My Bikes
    2 many
    Posts
    13,732
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Why did liscense plates on bicycles get discontinued in the 1950's ?

    No one ever seems to know for sure. I always think it's because there would be a big loss of money if they did not charge very high rates. And the police have other important things to do, than to try and enforce it.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  18. #43
    Fair Weather Cyclist Transformer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    SF Bay Area
    My Bikes
    R&M Frog, Moulton TSR
    Posts
    141
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    No. I think driving is rightly a privilege and cycling is rightly a right.

  19. #44
    Member Ace X's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Central Wisconsin
    My Bikes
    Pacific Quick Silver, Pacific Fission
    Posts
    32
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    No, if you do this then where is the freedom of the ride. You are becoming just like the motorist on the road paying for the privilege to use. There would be a lot of people not riding and/or just not paying to licence a bike.

  20. #45
    Still spinnin'..... Stealthammer's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Whitestown, IN
    My Bikes
    Fisher Opie freeride/urban assault MTB, Redline Monocog 29er MTB, Serrota T-Max Commuter, Klein Rascal SS, Salsa Campion Road bike, Pake Rum Runner FG/SS Road bike, Cannondale Synapse Road bike, Santana Arriva Road Tandem, and others....
    Posts
    1,195
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by 2manybikes View Post
    Why did liscense plates on bicycles get discontinued in the 1950's ?

    No one ever seems to know for sure. I always think it's because there would be a big loss of money if they did not charge very high rates. And the police have other important things to do, than to try and enforce it.
    I don't know about elsewhere but when I was growing up in California in the late '50s and early '60s all of our bikes were registered with the local police or the CHP (I don't remember which), and after the bike was give a "safety check" and we were given a small foil sticker to place at the bottom of the seat tube. By the late '60s I believe, this whole process disappeared due to the cost to the state or local governments from what I understand.

    As far as cyclists not paying taxes for road use the answer is quite simple. If you own real estate you pay property taxes to the local government and those funds contribute to the local government's costs, and if you rent the property owner factors in a portion his property taxes into your rent. We don't pay gas taxes because we don't use gas, but more importantly, we do not cause the wear and tear on the roadways that car and trucks produce, so why should we pay for maintaining something that we don't contribute to?

    Requiring registration or licensing of bicycles is virtually unenforceable without a masssive increase in government and government spending, both of which we certainly don't need. If they really want to tax bicycles though, they should do it at the point-of-sale.
    Last edited by Stealthammer; 08-17-12 at 09:50 AM.
    Just your average 'high-functioning' lunatic, capable of passing as 'normal' for short periods of time.....

    “The difference between genius and stupidity is; genius has its limits.” - Albert Einstein

    “We all know that light travels faster than sound. That's why certain people appear bright until you hear them speak.” - Albert Einstein

  21. #46
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    San Jose, CA
    My Bikes
    Bianchi San Remo - set up as a utility bike, Peter Mooney Road bike, Peter Mooney commute bike,Dahon Folder,Schwinn Paramount Tandem
    Posts
    1,824
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Let me start by saying that I firmly believe that while driving a motor vehicle is a privilege which is appropriate to regulate via a license, and riding a bicycle is a right which should not have any more restrictions placed upon it than walking (or farting as Rodimus_Prime suggests). I also agree with the many posters here that a system for registering bicycles is impractical and would almost certainly cost more to administer than it could reasonably be expected to return in revenue, BUT....

    I am also a strong advocate for educating cyclists, and some sort of a system which allowed for an incentive for a cyclist to become educated in the rules of the road would be a good thing. If there could be some sort of license which a cyclist could obtain which might require showing that they understood the rules of the road, and which could be revoked if they were found to be routinely breaking the rules of the road, and the carrying of this license conferred some extra benefit to the cyclist, then I would be in favour of that.

  22. #47
    Super Moderator tractorlegs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Locked by the Door
    My Bikes
    The Black Knight
    Posts
    2,205
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by sauerwald View Post
    Let me start by saying that I firmly believe that while driving a motor vehicle is a privilege which is appropriate to regulate via a license, and riding a bicycle is a right which should not have any more restrictions placed upon it than walking (or farting as Rodimus_Prime suggests). I also agree with the many posters here that a system for registering bicycles is impractical and would almost certainly cost more to administer than it could reasonably be expected to return in revenue, BUT....

    I am also a strong advocate for educating cyclists, and some sort of a system which allowed for an incentive for a cyclist to become educated in the rules of the road would be a good thing. If there could be some sort of license which a cyclist could obtain which might require showing that they understood the rules of the road, and which could be revoked if they were found to be routinely breaking the rules of the road, and the carrying of this license conferred some extra benefit to the cyclist, then I would be in favour of that.
    I would not be in favor of that at all. I don't like the idea of the government at any level micromanaging the lives of its citizens. There's a line between laws that govern safety and protect us from violence (i.e. Murder should still be illegal, licensing a cage driver should still be mandatory) and sticking its unwelcome fingers in the private lives of its citizens (like riding bicycles or gay marriage). Government has a place, and that place is not in determining my freedoms and moralities and "if I can ride a bike safely" - but protecting my freedoms.
    Forum Guidelines
    ****************************************

  23. #48
    2 Fat 2 Furious contango's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    England
    My Bikes
    2009 Specialized Rockhopper Comp Disc, 2009 Specialized Tricross Sport
    Posts
    3,989
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by sauerwald View Post
    I am also a strong advocate for educating cyclists, and some sort of a system which allowed for an incentive for a cyclist to become educated in the rules of the road would be a good thing. If there could be some sort of license which a cyclist could obtain which might require showing that they understood the rules of the road, and which could be revoked if they were found to be routinely breaking the rules of the road, and the carrying of this license conferred some extra benefit to the cyclist, then I would be in favour of that.
    The trouble is when it is hugely impractical to license cyclists at all how would you go about issuing a license that would grant extra benefits and restrict those benefits to the people who had the license?

    Firstly, what benefits could possibly be provided to a selected group of cyclists? If anyone with $100 can visit Wally World and come away with a bike shaped object that they can ride on just about any road, what can you offer them over and above that freedom? Even the right to use expressways and interstates isn't much of a benefit since I can't imagine anyone bothering to get a special license to ride what must be the least bike-friendly roads in the country.

    Secondly, if it's agreed that it's impractical to enforce licensing of cyclists how could it be possible to enforce any restrictions that only applied to some cyclists?
    "For a list of ways technology has failed to improve quality of life, press three"

  24. #49
    Senior Member Zedoo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Boodling the Mitten
    Posts
    136
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I expect local American government will eventually get more involved in cycling regulation. If driving finally becomes too expensive and suburban sprawl reverses, there will be more cyclists and pedestrians in smaller areas. Whatever Japan, the Netherlands, and other densely populated nations do now may later be Americanized.

  25. #50
    Senior Member bandit1990's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Sacramento, CA
    Posts
    122
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    No

Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •