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  1. #76
    Senior Member closetbiker's Avatar
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    I sent off an email to Jon

    here's his address if you want to too

    jferry@theprovince.com
    Last edited by closetbiker; 12-29-08 at 02:51 PM.
    "My two favourite things in life are libraries and bicycles. They both move people forward without wasting anything" -Peter Golkin
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  2. #77
    Senior Member closetbiker's Avatar
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    I wrote a different letter for the paper:

    provletters@png.canwest.com

    Public roads are built on public land, for the public's use, and paid for with public funding.

    Everybody pays for the roads whether used or not.

    Not only do cyclists pay for the roads, they subsidize the health care sytem because cycling inherently improves health. Something motoring does not.
    Last edited by closetbiker; 12-29-08 at 08:07 PM.
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  3. #78
    aspiring island dweller spinninwheels's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trustnoone View Post
    So the three inclusive paragraphs were a dishonest comment
    Nowhere did I state that his observations were dishonest. It was his opinion, of which he is entitled. Furthermore, his letter was dripping with a condescending and condemning attitude. And that was the reason for my tongue in cheek comment.

    How did Mr. Horn know the cyclist was commuting to work? Did he know him? And if he did, how far was his commute...5, 10, 20, 40 km? If it was a 5 km commute, with only 2 km of that on the highway, would that make a difference to anyone?

    I couldn't say for sure, that I would necessarily do what that cyclist did. But that's because I don't know the details of the situation. Maybe you're more familiar with that stretch of highway than me. It's been two years since I cycled it last. Getting in and out of Vancouver via the Lougheed, if indeed that was what the cyclist was attempting, is still a major pain.

    Quote Originally Posted by trustnoone View Post
    We are all either part of a problem or part of a solution. I would suggest that taking a lane of a highway in any weather condition in any vehicle at 50km/h below the posted speed limit is being part of the problem.
    Not necessarily. I don't mean to split hairs, but the problem is the weather. He could be a contributing aspect to a bigger, potential problem. But he is not part of the problem. Drivers who travel too fast for road conditions, are also a potential variable in this equation.

    Quote Originally Posted by trustnoone View Post
    In fact, impeding traffic on a highway is most likely unlawful.
    It probably is. And if the RCMP decided to ticket him, it would be for the judge to decide, extenuating circumstances or not, as to whether he was impeding traffic and/or an additional hazard.

    Quote Originally Posted by trustnoone View Post
    As cyclists who commute under most conditions we are part of that solution and if for no other reason, we in a small way reduce congestion.
    I don't totally agree with you there.

    Here are some quick, yet loose numbers: 1.69 % of the employed Vancouverites commute by bike*. So depending which population you want to use, Vancouver proper (~600,000), or the GVA ( >2,000,000); then roughing the workforce at a conservative 20% - that's between 2,000 and 6,000 cycle commuters. Granted probably not all of them would drive if they couldn't cycle, but it's still a significant amount.

    * http://www.tetracom.ca/transtalk/?p=1934


    Quote Originally Posted by trustnoone View Post
    Here's a quote we've heard too: "One Less Car". By increasing congestion which increases the likelihood of accidents far more than decreasing speed increases safety the lone cyclist is really creating "Many More Cars".
    I'm confused by that statement. Are you stating, that by reducing cars on the road, you're actually increasing cars on the road? Or do you mean congestion? They are not synonymous.

    I also think that the saying ONE LESS CAR means a lot more than just potentially reducing traffic. What about pollution and conserving finite resources? Does that count?

    And are you also saying that decreased congestion, reduces accidents more than decreased speed limits?

    A saying that I like even more than ONE LESS CAR, is...

    Be the change that you want to see in the world.

    Quote Originally Posted by trustnoone View Post
    We can hate the motorist, but in the 900 odd days I commuted in Vancouver, I was safely passed or given the lane by probably more than 50,000 of them. Or more precisely, by all but one car and one bus.
    Firstly, I'm glad that your experience of cycling commuting in Vancouver was a positive one.

    Secondly, who hates the motorists? I'm very aware of what they do, obviously, but I don't hate them.

    Quote Originally Posted by trustnoone View Post
    There is a lot to be said for making a few common sense choices with respect to road use, not only for safety, but courtesy too.
    I agree.

    Quote Originally Posted by trustnoone View Post
    If we choose the moral high ground for no other reason than because we can, we could easily find some of our highways closed to us by those who pass us everyday without complaint.
    I don't mean to be contrary, but there are a lot of assumptions and judgements made by both drivers and cyclists, let alone Mr. Horn, you and me. There are also a lot of bad decisions made my drivers and cyclists. I just don't think that we know whether or not it was a bad decision, or just a motorist venting and stating it as such.
    Last edited by spinninwheels; 12-29-08 at 07:51 PM. Reason: spelling
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  4. #79
    Senior Member trustnoone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spinninwheels View Post
    How did Mr. Horn know the cyclist was commuting to work? Did he know him? And if he did, how far was his commute...5, 10, 20, 40 km? If it was a 5 km commute, with only 2 km of that on the highway, would that make a difference to anyone?
    I suggesting it is irrelevant what the cyclist is doing. On clear roads I cover 2 km in 3 to 3.5 minutes. I would cover approximately 10km in the same amount of time in a car. On the Lougheed, that makes a difference. Maybe not enough to drive someone insane, but probably. Thus I would suggest that taking a lane on Lougheed highway or any other highway is a bad idea. Now if for what ever reason, it takes 30 minutes to travel that same distance, it makes little difference why, but traffic congestion will be a problem. If it is the cause of one road user, that user is an idiot regardless of his personal plight. Yes, it makes a difference to other road users.

    Quote Originally Posted by spinninwheels View Post
    Not necessarily. I don't mean to split hairs, but the problem is the weather. He could be a contributing aspect to a bigger, potential problem. But he is not part of the problem. Drivers who travel too fast for road conditions, are also a potential variable in this equation.
    Weather is not a problem in itself, but it is always a factor. If a cyclist rides without lights is the problem with the sun for being on the wrong side of the earth? Nature is mitigated by skill and choice of equipment. Failure to mitigate uncontrollable effects is the problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by spinninwheels View Post
    Here are some quick, yet loose numbers: 1.69 % but it's still a significant amount.
    1.69% is small. 2,000-6,000 commuters is not that significant. Is it even more than a minute of traffic on any major route in the GVRD? It is small enough though, that we should never see any negative press on the matter.

    Quote Originally Posted by spinninwheels View Post
    I'm confused by that statement. Are you stating, that by reducing cars on the road, you're actually increasing cars on the road? Or do you mean congestion? They are not synonymous. I also think that the saying ONE LESS CAR means a lot more than just potentially reducing traffic. What about pollution and conserving finite resources? Does that count?
    What I am saying is 60 cars on the road one minute longer negates the reduced traffic, pollution reduction, and conservation made by taking one car off the road for an hour.


    Quote Originally Posted by spinninwheels View Post
    And are you also saying that decreased congestion, reduces accidents more than decreased speed limits?
    Sure, I'll say that. Are you saying that the most congested roads don't have the most accidents?

    Quote Originally Posted by spinninwheels View Post
    ..motorist venting and stating it as such.
    Chances are. But try as I might, it's hard to find a positive spin for taking a lane of the lougheed on a bike.
    Last edited by trustnoone; 12-29-08 at 09:07 PM.

  5. #80
    aspiring island dweller spinninwheels's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trustnoone View Post
    I suggesting it is irrelevant what the cyclist is doing. On clear roads I cover 2 km in 3 to 3.5 minutes. I would cover approximately 10km in the same amount of time in a car. On the Lougheed, that makes a difference. Maybe not enough to drive someone insane, but probably. Thus I would suggest that taking a lane on Lougheed highway or any other highway is a bad idea. Now if for what ever reason, it takes 30 minutes to travel that same distance, it makes little difference why, but traffic congestion will be a problem. If it is the cause of one road user, that user is an idiot regardless of his personal plight. Yes, it makes a difference to other road users.



    Weather is not a problem in itself, but it is always a factor. If a cyclist rides without lights is the problem with the sun for being on the wrong side of the earth? Nature is mitigated by skill and choice of equipment. Failure to mitigate uncontrollable effects is the problem.



    1.69% is small. 2,000-6,000 commuters is not that significant. Is it even more than a minute of traffic on any major route in the GVRD? It is small enough though, that we should never see any negative press on the matter.



    What I am saying is 60 cars on the road one minute longer negates the reduced traffic, pollution reduction, and conservation made by taking one car off the road for an hour.




    Sure, I'll say that. Are you saying that the most congested roads don't have the most accidents?



    Chances are. But try as I might, it's hard to find a positive spin for taking a lane of the lougheed on a bike.
    We obviously see things differently. Your point of never taking the lane on a highway, is something that would be better discussed in A&S or VC, rather than the Vancouver thread.
    Last edited by spinninwheels; 12-29-08 at 11:13 PM.
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  6. #81
    Senior Member closetbiker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spinninwheels View Post
    We obviously see things differently. Your point of never taking the lane on a highway, is something that would be better discussed in A&S or VC, rather than the Vancouver thread.
    back to Vancouver specific issues, it's good to see the feedback given to Ferry's opinion piece.

    Although there is some ignorance out there, there have been responses setting facts straight.

    It's not that I have a problem living with a difference of opinion, it's more when that opinion is not based on fact.

    Ferry is wrong to think cyclists don't pay a fair share for their use of the road. If he thinks they should pay more than their fair share, that's another issue.
    "My two favourite things in life are libraries and bicycles. They both move people forward without wasting anything" -Peter Golkin
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  7. #82
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    I'm moving to Burnaby for a year and any local advice you could give me would be great. I'm from Edmonton and I've decided that I want to use this time as a pilot test for living carless. For now I've got two road bikes and a xc that I will be bringing with me. Getting to and from work should be easy since the company I work for is renting me and a couple of my coworkers a place close to our worksite(burnaby lake area) and if I absolutely have to I can catch a ride with them. So I guess Im just looking for advice on riding conditions year round. What months will be the worst to ride? How late into the year is there good road biking? Any group rides around? Good LBS in burnaby? As you can tell I have no experience with this area. Any help could be rewarded with a post-ride pint if you're up for a ride once I get there.

  8. #83
    Resident Seaballer DogsBody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by subaruneau View Post
    I'm moving to Burnaby for a year and any local advice you could give me would be great. I'm from Edmonton and I've decided that I want to use this time as a pilot test for living carless. For now I've got two road bikes and a xc that I will be bringing with me. Getting to and from work should be easy since the company I work for is renting me and a couple of my coworkers a place close to our worksite(burnaby lake area) and if I absolutely have to I can catch a ride with them. So I guess Im just looking for advice on riding conditions year round. What months will be the worst to ride? How late into the year is there good road biking? Any group rides around? Good LBS in burnaby? As you can tell I have no experience with this area. Any help could be rewarded with a post-ride pint if you're up for a ride once I get there.

    The Central Valley Greenway has been a handy addition to the entire corridor from Vancouver to New Westminster.
    I have friend that uses it to get from his house in East Vancouver (near Commercial Drive), all the way to the neighbourhood you will be working in...
    Riding conditions in the winter a dependent on Nature; but most of the time the active ingredient in your ride will be WATER, and lots of it.
    One has to be aware of the hazards of what water does to things like carpets of leaves on the road (much like an oil slick imo); and watch out for ice on the chillier/drier mornings (funnily enough it tends to be COLDER when it gets clear).
    The worst months would be Dec-Feb. With the ONLY concern being if we get snow.
    One can expect to be able to cycle nearly year-round as we do not get cold enough for snow to stay for that long (except when it dumps like it did last Christmas; but that even cleared-up after a couple/three weeks).
    LBS's that I know of in Burnaby are the Bike Doctor on Kingsway (near Metrotown):
    http://www.thebikedr.com/
    Jubilee Cycle (also near Metrotown):
    http://www.jubileecycle.com/
    And Sharpey's - These guys are more MTB oriented; but they do know their stuff (on Hastings in North Burnaby):
    http://www.sharpeyscycles.com/
    It's not the bullet with my name on it that worries me. It's the one that says, "To whom it may concern".

  9. #84
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    Thanks that's what I wanted to know. Once I find out exactly where our place is I'll make the decision to bring my car or not. I miss the days of being carless but I do remember the times where it was kind of a hassle. I was living in Montreal too so it was usually faster to just ride the metro. I just don't want to always be bugging my coworkers to take me grocery shopping because it's too much trouble to take transit or something.

    I guess in the meantime I will hunt down some good rain gear.

  10. #85
    Resident Seaballer DogsBody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by subaruneau View Post
    Thanks that's what I wanted to know. Once I find out exactly where our place is I'll make the decision to bring my car or not. I miss the days of being carless but I do remember the times where it was kind of a hassle. I was living in Montreal too so it was usually faster to just ride the metro. I just don't want to always be bugging my coworkers to take me grocery shopping because it's too much trouble to take transit or something.

    I guess in the meantime I will hunt down some good rain gear.
    You will be close to several Grocery outlets.
    It should also be pointed out that there is now a Skytrain line running down the Lougheed Highway.
    Which, judging by your description; will be very near your place of work (a few short blocks...).
    It's not the bullet with my name on it that worries me. It's the one that says, "To whom it may concern".

  11. #86
    Pro Paper Plane Pilot wunderkind's Avatar
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    ^+1 for the Central Valley Greenway (CVG). It runs like a spine across Vancouver, Burnaby and New West. I use it on my commute to work via bike. Some stretches are great. Some not so great.... like the Sperling/Winston section. But overall, it's better than nothing. What I appreciate about it is that the CVG is built to avoid hills. Once you hit Gilmore area, there's a MUP running underneath the Skytrain guide rail all the way to VCC.
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  12. #87
    Resident Seaballer DogsBody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DogsBody View Post
    You will be close to several Grocery outlets.
    It should also be pointed out that there is now a Skytrain line running down the Lougheed Highway.
    Which, judging by your description; will be very near your place of work (a few short blocks...).
    Note that on weekends, and evenings (non-rush hour times): You can take your bike on the Skytrain.
    It's not the bullet with my name on it that worries me. It's the one that says, "To whom it may concern".

  13. #88
    No lugs? No hugs. Exit.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by subaruneau View Post
    How late into the year is there good road biking? Any group rides around? Good LBS in burnaby? As you can tell I have no experience with this area. Any help could be rewarded with a post-ride pint if you're up for a ride once I get there.
    Road season is pretty much over for the year, but there's still a few group rides happening. Sunday Mornings at 9am one of the LBSs runs a club ride. The shop is called La Bicicletta, and they're the predominant high-end road cycling shop in vancouver. They're located on Broadway, over by MEC, and that's where the Sunday morning rides start from.

    Like I said though, road season is really winding down, and soon everyone will be heading to the Burnaby Velodrome for track season. Something I strongly suggest you check out, by the way, because track racing is awesoooome.
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    Anybody know where some cyclocross racing takes place in the Lower Mainland?

  15. #90
    No lugs? No hugs. Exit.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WCoastPeddler View Post
    Anybody know where some cyclocross racing takes place in the Lower Mainland?
    http://www.cyclingbc.net/itoolkit.as...OCROSS_CALNDAR
    1997 Vitali track, 1986 Cilo Swiss road, 2006 KHS Flite 100, 2009 top-secret track bike.

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    Thanks Exit!

  17. #92
    Senior Member closetbiker's Avatar
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    I knew there was something like that out there.

    I looked the VACCs and the BCCC sites and didn't see anything.

    Obviously, I should have looked at Cycling BCs site.
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  18. #93
    No lugs? No hugs. Exit.'s Avatar
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    VACC doesn't do anything to do with racing. The impression I've got from the VACC is that they're a bunch of casual riders on hybrid bikes (shudder) that occasionally take short, slow rides on unpaved trails in the suburbs. Not my cup of tea.
    1997 Vitali track, 1986 Cilo Swiss road, 2006 KHS Flite 100, 2009 top-secret track bike.

  19. #94
    Senior Member closetbiker's Avatar
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    The Vancouver Area Cycling Coalition (VACC) is a volunteer-run non-profit society whose members work to improve conditions for cycling in the Lower Mainland

    BCCC represent the interests of cyclists provincially and to secure their recognition in policy and programs affecting transportational cycling.

    Neither have anything to do with cycling as a sport
    "My two favourite things in life are libraries and bicycles. They both move people forward without wasting anything" -Peter Golkin
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  20. #95
    No lugs? No hugs. Exit.'s Avatar
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    On a vaguely related note, does anyone know what the deal is with that new bike co-op on Ontario and 3rd-ish? A friend told me about it, and said it's pretty cool, but I haven't made it by yet.
    1997 Vitali track, 1986 Cilo Swiss road, 2006 KHS Flite 100, 2009 top-secret track bike.

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    Pro Paper Plane Pilot wunderkind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Exit. View Post
    VACC doesn't do anything to do with racing. The impression I've got from the VACC is that they're a bunch of casual riders on hybrid bikes (shudder) that occasionally take short, slow rides on unpaved trails in the suburbs. Not my cup of tea.

    Please do some reading on VACC before posting.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Exit. View Post

    Like I said though, road season is really winding down, and soon everyone will be heading to the Burnaby Velodrome for track season. Something I strongly suggest you check out, by the way, because track racing is awesoooome.
    Thanks a lot buddy you probably just cost me a couple thousand dollars. I'm going to come check out the velodrome, I'm going to like it, and then I'm going to have to buy another damn bike.

    From the info you guys have given me I can't wait to get down there now.

  23. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by wunderkind View Post
    Please do some reading on VACC before posting.
    I'll post wherever, whenever, and however I want, kid. If that offends you, there's an ignore button.
    Quote Originally Posted by subaruneau View Post
    Thanks a lot buddy you probably just cost me a couple thousand dollars. I'm going to come check out the velodrome, I'm going to like it, and then I'm going to have to buy another damn bike.

    From the info you guys have given me I can't wait to get down there now.
    Muahahaha. Excellent.

    FYI, the track has rental bikes, so you can go down there and try your hand at it without investing in a track bike of your own. Just gotta bring your own shoes and pedals, of the clipless variety of your choice; something you already have if you're a road cyclist. I believe the rental fee is $15, plus whatever the drop-in fee is, which is around the same.

    There is a couple days of training you have to do before you're allowed to race on the track, though. They run the course at the 'drome pretty regularly, and you'll learn all the basics of how to stay on the track without falling off, which is harder than you might think.
    1997 Vitali track, 1986 Cilo Swiss road, 2006 KHS Flite 100, 2009 top-secret track bike.

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    East Van!!Moving to Winnipeg in 5 days til May. Leaving the bike behind and taking my skates. Can't wait to fly down the Assiniboine River....

  25. #100
    Conquer Cancer rider Boudicca's Avatar
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    Heading for Vancouver for (Canadian) Thanksgiving weekend, Bike Friday in tow. Any recommendations?
    Zero gallons to the mile

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