DogsBody

https://www.news1130.com/news/local/m...17_090445_6544
Of course the VPD hit the Burrard first in order to be seen to be doing something for all the Carnosaurs who are pissed at losing a lane.

wunderkind

good. helmets are crucial safety equipment.

Sheik_Yerbouti

First they're handing out helmet tickets, next your tv will watch you!

frymaster

adequate daily consumption of vitamin c is crucial for healthy living. do you support the police handing out tickets to people who consume an insufficient number of oranges?

DogsBody

Perceived as crucial anyway.
They aren't gonna help your dome one whit when a Carnosaur hits you; but I do wear mine to protect against lighter impacts (which are possible).
Had friend get a ticket driving his cruiser on the path by first beach.
Guess the campaign is on hard-core.
Plus, it will raise one up from a child...

Sheik_Yerbouti

Yeah, that epidemic of bicycle related head injuries is really taxing our public health care system. They should really just ban cycling due to the risk. I mean we need to make room for people who really need the system for their obesity related diabetes, drug addiction, heart disease, and all those people who aren't putting their own health at risk by horribly dangerous activities like biking.

closetbiker

There's a thread in the Advocacy and safety forum about this.

The thing I find odd is that, back in May the police held an education campaign and publicized that the fine for riding without a helmet would be $29, yet according to media reports, the police were giving out $100 fines.

I emailed the mayor asking about this. Vancouver city has a bylaw that sets the fine at $100, but to publicize one fine and charge another is not too good.

wunderkind

Don't you just love kindergarten logic.
Seat belts is part of a crucial safety system in an accident. It has now become unlawful to drive cars without wearing seat belts.

closetbiker

yeah, but seat belts and bike helmets are hardly the same thing now are they?

I actually looked back at the debate of the day when they passed the legisaltion and it's sole purpose was to reduce death and serious injury. Not to mitigate or reduce injury in simple falls from bicycles.

Handing out tickets only discourages people from riding bikes, leaving fewer riders and more dangerous conditions for the remaining cyclists on the road. Hardly the intent of setting aside space on the road for cyclists at the expense of the motoring public.

wunderkind

You do know that even the most basic Wal Mart helmet has to pass the same safety tests from CPSC as the $100 Giro. If people can't afford $15 for a basic helmet, then I seriously think these folks should reconsider riding a bike around town. Maybe their brains aren't worth it then. mmmkay.

Swarming the public streets with unsafe riders is counter productive. See the negative impact the Critical Mass recently in Vancouver generated. What they did on the streets is enough to make me feel ashamed to be a fellow cyclist. Safe riding by obeying the rules set the example and will pave the way for improve bicycle infrastructure. Not hooliganism and moronic law breakers that not only endangers themselves, but pedestrians and others around them.

WCoastPeddler

Hooliganism? I was at the last CM ride and I didn't see any hooliganism. And the newspaper coverage of CM the day after the ride was quite positive -- maybe you missed the Saturday edition of the Sun?

At any rate, I'm not sure what CM has to do with not wearing a helmet, so my apologies for the off-topic post.

Sheik_Yerbouti

Not talking about the cost of a helmet. 2 things cause fewer people to ride with helmet laws; people don't like to wear them and aren't willing to brake the law, and it portrays cycling as a more dangerous activity than it actually is, making people scared to ride.

Man, I lost so many good buddies to cycling related head injuries back when I was a kid and no one wore helmets when cycling.

There are some things I love about living in Alberta, No helmet law (even though I wear one) and no PST and soon to be HST(suckas)

closetbiker

OK, it's easy to see where you sit in regards to the helmet debate. I'm not sure if that matters.

It is a law, but the law is clearly rejected when you see a cyclist without a lid. This is not uncommon as there are many laws people (and the police) turn a blind eye to. About half the cyclists ride without a lid. I wonder how many motorists ignore the speed limit? Half? More than half? Do you think there are any cars crossing this bridge that are driving under 60 kmh?

Anyways, the point is, police announced the fines that were going to handed out when they caught someone riding without a helmet would be $29. When the police started handing them out (according to media reports) they were $100. Do you think this is right?

wunderkind

As they say... law is made to be broken? So I don't see your point. Police is an enforcer of policies and laws. So bikers, motorists and pedestrians can break the law all day. But be prepared to pay to play. If i speed in a school zone, when caught I have no excuse. Or if caught without wearing a seatbelt, then one must be prepared to face lawful charges.
Anyhow I wear my helmet because to me, my brain matters. To some i can see does not. YMMV.


BTW, there's a counter Critical Mass event called Critical Manners. Now that is a movement I can support. Do a search. Even a left-wing media like CBC had a segment critiquing Critical Mass.

closetbiker

the point is, the police said the fine was $29 and they gave out $100 fines.

an additional point can be made about drivers speeding and not being ticketed for their offense.

It's been shown that speed affects the death rate

from:https://www.momentumplanet.com/blog/r...-square-inches

wunderkind

I am not contending the amt of fine. I am contending with the fact that riders do not see the safety aspect of wearing helmets which has now become part of the law for cyclists. And are now making a fuss for being ticketed.
Don't know what is your point about speeding.
I can easily pull stats on bicycle injury based on helmet wearing vs. non. But that would be too easy.

closetbiker

I don't think too many are making a fuss about being ticketed. After all, the police ran a well publicized campaign through the media that they were going to be handing out tickets for offences.

I'm commenting that they're handing out ticket at more than 3times the fine that they said they would. Imagine if you were paying property taxes based on the appraised value of your property at 4% and when the bill came due, the bill was based on 12% of the appraised value. Would you say, "Well, I own the property, so I guess I should just pay the tax"?

The point of bringing up speeding is that police are picking some laws to enforce while ignoring other laws being broken that are causing much more harm

WCoastPeddler

fwiw: I think the Critical Manners movement is ridiculous and can't be a success because the organizer figures the best way to get exposure is to be invisible. Sorry, but something is seriously wrong with that logic.

At any rate, this discussion is about the fines being implemented for not wearing a helmet -- if you want to discuss Critical Mass or Critical Manners, or the wearing or not wearing of helmets, I'd be happy to do so if you start a discussion specific to that topic rather than trying to derail this one.

wunderkind

In that case, then I see your point.

WCoastPeddler, there are already lots of comments on the Vancouver CMass issue. This was brought up in respond to a poster about gaining more road use by cyclist with or without helmets. I don't need another discussion on this so-called bicycle advocacy circus event that only leads to negative image on other law abiding riders. Metro, CBC, Global TV etc.... take your pick.

WCoastPeddler

Hey pal, you're the one who keeps bringing up CM and Critical Manners. I've said twice now that if you want to discuss it to start another thread and stop derailing this one.

closetbiker

I agree. Seems to me the point of a protest is to kick up a fuss so you get noticed.

It also seems to me the reaction to the fuss is proportional to how much you are in step with the protests point. I didn't see too many people getting too upset about massive Earth Day marches despite the disruption having a larger impact than CM.

Motorists don't mind ignoring traffic laws when everyone else drives in the same way, but a guy on a bike that slows a motorist down? Bad news.

wunderkind

You are the one that respond to it. It was brought as an example.

psst... westcoastfella doesn't like this to derail the topic. Start a new thread to discuss the matter. Oh wait, you agree with him. So that's OK then I suppose.

closetbiker

I just brought it up as an aside.

frymaster

of course you don't, your mind is made up and neither reasoning nor facts shall sway it.

wunderkind

^ Please start a new thread to discuss and not derail this thread.... some folks get really antsy about this. Shh....