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Winter Cycling Don't let snow and ice discourage you this winter. The key element to year-round cycling is proper attire! Check out this winter cycling forum to chat with other ice bike fanatics.

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Old 01-17-07, 12:16 AM   #1
diff_lock2
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W106 Tires, not enough!

I have Nokian W106 studded tires front and back, the rear one is a bit bigger...

Im going down a pretty steep slop, and theres a mirror sheet if think ice (and its +3c - +5c).

And im turning (really slow), and a split second later im on the ground.

I fell down so smoothly that i just stayed on the ground cause i wasn't fully aware wtf happened.

I try to get up...uses less, no friction at all... so i slide over to the side of the road and get my feet in to some old snow and pull the bike over, and pretty much walk the bike around this ice patch.

I have pictures of the marks left in the ice, but i cant upload off my phone (vista) atm.

Just saying, there not totally ice proof...

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Last edited by diff_lock2; 01-22-07 at 01:36 PM.
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Old 01-17-07, 03:21 AM   #2
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W106's aren't supposed to be used on sheet ice with much expectation of stability; they're for snow and hardpack and slush, anything that gives them a little something to bite into. Gotta go for the big meaty 200+ studded tires or the wood screw solution on sheet ice.
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Old 01-17-07, 06:03 AM   #3
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Wet ice is the worst. I haven't tried the W106, but on my Nokian 240's I sometimes deflate them a little bit for more contact surface (less likely that no stud is reaching the ground).
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Old 01-17-07, 07:30 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by j3ns
Wet ice is the worst. I haven't tried the W106, but on my Nokian 240's I sometimes deflate them a little bit for more contact surface (less likely that no stud is reaching the ground).
+1

Make sure your inflation pressure is low if you think you'll be hitting ice, about 40 psi is pretty good. Also, be very careful turning! If you lean, you're probably going down. If you turn a little, slowly, you'll probably be OK on sheet ice.
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Old 01-17-07, 07:41 AM   #5
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Remember one of the biggest things is to stay off the front brake. Don't use it unless you absolutely have to. Once the front tire is locked up you lose all steering traction, or what little you may have to begin with.

Scan the road ahead, anticipate and be prepared beforehand..
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Old 01-17-07, 08:04 AM   #6
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Can't say enough about the 296 Extremes, have yet to have a major crash on them in 3 years of winter riding. I have so much confidence in them that I will brake hard with the front on glare ice. It will only lock up for the last foot or so, which is easily controlable.
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Old 01-17-07, 08:50 AM   #7
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Im using around 60-65 PSI... Cause im 100-110kg atm. You think i should drop it down to 40 psi?

I will try that.

Also, yeah i know about braking and leaning... sometimes theres just so much you can do.
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Old 01-17-07, 08:52 AM   #8
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Sorry to hear about your fall first of all. The steep slopes can be tricky.

I spent a good week debating whether or not to go with the 106s or Mount and Grounds. I decided to buy a pair of M&Gs and have been very please with cornering performance on ice. Part of my decision against the W106s is the lack of stud placement to the outer edge and the narrow width, not to mention fewer studs than the M&Gs. I just felt the M&G was a better all-around tire. This not to say the 106 is a bad tire.

We had about 4 inches of snow here in the Twin Cities a couple days ago(about time), so today was a good test. The roads are now plowed well enough to have the shoulders back for safety. Today I ran the pressure at 20 psi/front and 25 psi/rear to deal with all sorts of slush, ice, hardpack, etc, etc. Tire pressure is definitely a key factor. I had no problems at all with my commute.

Before we had any snow, and since this is my first experience with studded tires, I "played" on glare ice lakes to get a good feel for their capabilities. The experience helped my handling skills immensely.
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Old 01-17-07, 12:20 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KrisA
Can't say enough about the 296 Extremes, have yet to have a major crash on them in 3 years of winter riding. I have so much confidence in them that I will brake hard with the front on glare ice. It will only lock up for the last foot or so, which is easily controlable.
It's OK to do that if you have full studs, however even then, I primarily use the back brakes only, on deep rutted chop and ice... force of habit I suppose. You can survive and escape a lot of "Go Down" situations, if you stay off the front brake. If the front wheel isn't rolling, it's slipping or skidding, and that's what we generally want to avoid on ice.


As others have suggested, try lowering your tire pressures. Currently I'm using 30 psi front, 35-40 psi on the back of my 240 spike Continentals.
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Old 01-17-07, 12:31 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diff_lock2
Im using around 60-65 PSI... Cause im 100-110kg atm. You think i should drop it down to 40 psi?

I will try that.

Also, yeah i know about braking and leaning... sometimes theres just so much you can do.
40 psi would be much better- keeps the studs in contact with the ice more of the time.

The nokians have really beefy sidewalls, which helps prevent pinch flats. I've run mine down to ~15 psi in the front without problems, but i'm only 160lbs.
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Old 01-17-07, 09:42 PM   #11
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I'm really lazy, I haven't bothered changing my tires this year and finally winter hit us. Still using my serfas seca roads at about 100-110psi. I'm not finding it too bad though, a bit of spinning every once and a while but haven't fallen yet. We mostly get snow mixed with dirty slush with some refrozen slush.


Anyone have any good opinions on good 27" winter tires?
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Old 01-22-07, 01:36 PM   #12
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finally can upload pics to the server.
This is were i fell











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Old 01-22-07, 04:39 PM   #13
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To ride on what you show in the photos, you should have 296's with about 25 psi in the tires. You still don't bank the bike when you turn.

Depending on how you ride, your bike, and the ice conditions, you may be OK with 40 with 106's. If you can go lower without getting a pinch flat, experiment heading towards 25 psi. The lower the better.

I use 22 front and 25 rear with 296's on a heavy bike, with heavy panniers ocasionally, for ice like that with footprints. Don't hurry, pay attention the whole time. Learn how to control a fishtail while keeping the bike straight up and still pedaling. It takes practice, turn the bars in the direction the back slides.

A bike with suspension is very helpful on a surface like that.
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Old 01-22-07, 04:44 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ViperZ
It's OK to do that if you have full studs, however even then, I primarily use the back brakes only, on deep rutted chop and ice... force of habit I suppose. You can survive and escape a lot of "Go Down" situations, if you stay off the front brake. If the front wheel isn't rolling, it's slipping or skidding, and that's what we generally want to avoid on ice.


As others have suggested, try lowering your tire pressures. Currently I'm using 30 psi front, 35-40 psi on the back of my 240 spike Continentals.
Try 20 front 25 psi rear. You will not slide as much. Not a huge difference but noticeable in all conditions. Especially the loose snow on the road that is really slippery.
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