Why pay the big bucks for winter wear, it's just really a waste!
09-02-07, 02:54 PM
#126
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where do you ride where it gets to -90c /-132f . surly you jest ? you imply cotton is a proper allterntive to so called high priced technical gear. proper winter attire is a must in the yukon.
09-03-07, 12:36 PM
#127
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I feel you on that one, brotha. I dont bike in the winter often, but I snowboard, and ive snowboarded in -70C, coldest. At snowboard-ski speeds (60km an hour on a long run, easy) thats gory.
In winter gear, you truly do get what you pay for. A higher priced jacket will be more durable (I have $90 snowboarding gloves, that are 2% kevlar) will be warmer than a cheap garment, but yet much lighter, and, arguably more important of all, will have a better waterproof-breathability ratio. Expensive fabrics like the ones found on higher-end snowboardéski garments will allow you to stand under a shower, and the water will be repelled even better than, for example, latex or vinyl. Of course, these will need to be replenished after 3 washes, but DWR spray ranged from about $3-30 dollars. Again, you get what you pay for, the difference in these is how long they will last.
Plus, you get all the cool features like audio pockets, stash pockets, etc, but thats not where the price is coming from.
In winter gear, you truly do get what you pay for. A higher priced jacket will be more durable (I have $90 snowboarding gloves, that are 2% kevlar) will be warmer than a cheap garment, but yet much lighter, and, arguably more important of all, will have a better waterproof-breathability ratio. Expensive fabrics like the ones found on higher-end snowboardéski garments will allow you to stand under a shower, and the water will be repelled even better than, for example, latex or vinyl. Of course, these will need to be replenished after 3 washes, but DWR spray ranged from about $3-30 dollars. Again, you get what you pay for, the difference in these is how long they will last.
Plus, you get all the cool features like audio pockets, stash pockets, etc, but thats not where the price is coming from.
09-03-07, 02:12 PM
#128
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jonnysays420 brings an inane thread back from the dead! Wintertime will soon be here with sleet, snow and ice. Time for a new absorbent denim riding jacket!
09-03-07, 03:27 PM
#129
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go ahead if you think you can.... you would be puffed out after a mile haha
09-03-07, 03:28 PM
#130
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thats with the windchill bud, right here in alberta, and saskatchewan... and yes warm winter gear is a must here too...
09-03-07, 09:25 PM
#132
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REALITY CHECK
I think I posted this last winter, as far as I know we haven't broken any of these records but I'll check into it:
Just out of curiousity (and mid-december boredom) I ran numbers for some of the colder locations I could think of, these are the average highs and lows for each month of the year and then the yearly average as well as the record low for each month and the absolute all time low. All the data was from either the National Weather Service or Environment Canada, and in this table they are all in Centigrade.
cold temperatures-1.doc
The coldest temperature ever officially recorded in the United States was -79.8 degrees Fahrenheit - rounded off to minus 80 degrees - observed at Prospect Creek Camp in the Endicott Mountains of northern Alaska on Jan. 23, 1971. This is not the North American low record. The North American low of -81.4 degrees F. was recorded at Snag in Canada's Yukon Territory, on Feb. 3, 1947.
The lowest ever recorded in the contiguous 48 States, was -69.7 degrees - rounded off to minus 70 degrees - at Rogers Pass, in Lewis and Clark County, Mont., on Jan. 20, 1954. Rogers Pass is on State Highway 200 about 40 miles northwest of Helena.
The coldest temperature ever recorded east of the Mississippi River was -55 degrees Fahrenheit in Couderay, Wisconsin, on Feb. 4, 1996.
(I'm also pretty sure that there were no snowboards in Montana in 1954 or Prospect Camp Alaska in 1971)
09-05-07, 07:52 AM
#133
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I would like to know where this is too.
REALITY CHECK
I think I posted this last winter, as far as I know we haven't broken any of these records but I'll check into it:
Just out of curiousity (and mid-december boredom) I ran numbers for some of the colder locations I could think of, these are the average highs and lows for each month of the year and then the yearly average as well as the record low for each month and the absolute all time low. All the data was from either the National Weather Service or Environment Canada, and in this table they are all in Centigrade.
Attachment 53717
The coldest temperature ever officially recorded in the United States was -79.8 degrees Fahrenheit - rounded off to minus 80 degrees - observed at Prospect Creek Camp in the Endicott Mountains of northern Alaska on Jan. 23, 1971. This is not the North American low record. The North American low of -81.4 degrees F. was recorded at Snag in Canada's Yukon Territory, on Feb. 3, 1947.
The lowest ever recorded in the contiguous 48 States, was -69.7 degrees - rounded off to minus 70 degrees - at Rogers Pass, in Lewis and Clark County, Mont., on Jan. 20, 1954. Rogers Pass is on State Highway 200 about 40 miles northwest of Helena.
The coldest temperature ever recorded east of the Mississippi River was -55 degrees Fahrenheit in Couderay, Wisconsin, on Feb. 4, 1996.
(I'm also pretty sure that there were no snowboards in Montana in 1954 or Prospect Camp Alaska in 1971)
REALITY CHECK
I think I posted this last winter, as far as I know we haven't broken any of these records but I'll check into it:
Just out of curiousity (and mid-december boredom) I ran numbers for some of the colder locations I could think of, these are the average highs and lows for each month of the year and then the yearly average as well as the record low for each month and the absolute all time low. All the data was from either the National Weather Service or Environment Canada, and in this table they are all in Centigrade.
Attachment 53717
The coldest temperature ever officially recorded in the United States was -79.8 degrees Fahrenheit - rounded off to minus 80 degrees - observed at Prospect Creek Camp in the Endicott Mountains of northern Alaska on Jan. 23, 1971. This is not the North American low record. The North American low of -81.4 degrees F. was recorded at Snag in Canada's Yukon Territory, on Feb. 3, 1947.
The lowest ever recorded in the contiguous 48 States, was -69.7 degrees - rounded off to minus 70 degrees - at Rogers Pass, in Lewis and Clark County, Mont., on Jan. 20, 1954. Rogers Pass is on State Highway 200 about 40 miles northwest of Helena.
The coldest temperature ever recorded east of the Mississippi River was -55 degrees Fahrenheit in Couderay, Wisconsin, on Feb. 4, 1996.
(I'm also pretty sure that there were no snowboards in Montana in 1954 or Prospect Camp Alaska in 1971)
09-05-07, 07:54 AM
#134
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by the way ur info is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay off, it gets hella much colder than ur numbers suggest in Nunavut on a regular basis so wtf buddy. as well you have it posted in the assed backwards imperial measurement....
09-05-07, 09:54 AM
#135
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09-05-07, 08:21 PM
#136
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Show me weather data I dont recall 50 below c. in resent memory. You have to prove that you rode your bicycle in said temp. Greenland recorded -66c/-87f. Siberia -68c/-90f. Show me the money.
09-05-07, 11:14 PM
#137
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the temps are in C.
but anyone can check the numbers here:
https://www.climate.weatheroffice.ec....Welcome_e.html
where even a simpleton like yourself could discover that the coldest its ever been in Grande Prairie Alberta was -52C on January 2nd 1950 (we are all certain you were out there on your bike that morning). No question about it, GP is pretty cold, but Fairbanks is significantly colder and even so you don't see -50 here more than once or twice a year and some years not at all.
10-22-07, 04:25 AM
#139
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You would be surprised how many people buy something just because someone tells them it will really make them a better cyclist because of such said schlock that they are selling. Lets take clipless pedals and shoes for example. My good friend was buying a new bike, and you should have seen how much crap this store was trying to sell to him, the scary part is that these people are so persistent that he ended up wasting his money on clipless pedals and shoes, and all the other crap to go with it, (I think he ended up spending like $500 just on the accessories he broke down and bought, though if he would have bought everything they told him he "needed" it probably would have been in the same neighborhood as what he spent on the bike itself! So many people want to call themselves experts yet really don't know jack, and there is always someone with the money to buy this crap.
Don't get me wrong though. I believe a guy should have his pump, repair kit and the necessities but I have always been kind of "anti-gimmick" and buy even my regular clothes second hand, but nicer ones than I could afford if I bought new. On $20 I can get like 2 italian dress shirts two pairs of brand name dress pants or jeans and they are like new, so I guess it all boils down to perception.
Some people buy things just because they can, or they think they are getting a deal, whilst people like myself even when Buying something cheap, still feel they could've got it cheaper or have a hard time deciding whether to buy it or not. Either way to each his own, I will just keep using the same getup that has worked for me for the last 10-15 years and I will get that good feeling inside as I ride by someone who has just spent like 200-300 dollars on their winter wear and I can see that they are not nearly as comfortable as I am in my LowBudgetOutfit. That is what makes it all worthwhile.
Don't get me wrong though. I believe a guy should have his pump, repair kit and the necessities but I have always been kind of "anti-gimmick" and buy even my regular clothes second hand, but nicer ones than I could afford if I bought new. On $20 I can get like 2 italian dress shirts two pairs of brand name dress pants or jeans and they are like new, so I guess it all boils down to perception.
Some people buy things just because they can, or they think they are getting a deal, whilst people like myself even when Buying something cheap, still feel they could've got it cheaper or have a hard time deciding whether to buy it or not. Either way to each his own, I will just keep using the same getup that has worked for me for the last 10-15 years and I will get that good feeling inside as I ride by someone who has just spent like 200-300 dollars on their winter wear and I can see that they are not nearly as comfortable as I am in my LowBudgetOutfit. That is what makes it all worthwhile.
10-22-07, 05:16 PM
#140
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Outerwear in AZ
Hi, I am not fighting the weather some of you are. But I too find it expensive to buy everything at once. I bought my first bicycle tights at Longcycle.com. Around $40 on sale. They were worth it, have padding in the seat , and the wicking material. Today at 47 degrees I wore those tights a tank top with thermal long sleeve on top and then a sweatshirt jacket. Leather gloves. I was pretty comfortable and did not shed clothes. I found some better fitting suede leather gloves at Ross for $5.99 today. The ones I have now are mens and bulky, hoping hubby can wear them. I got Leg warmers at Rue 21 $4.99. And of course chapstick on a necklace cord for .99 at Dollar Tree. Even has a fruity taste.
Check out Susie's Deals for some nice synthetic jackets. $5.99 beats Wal-mart prices at just under $20. Same fabric, nearly same style.
Linda
Check out Susie's Deals for some nice synthetic jackets. $5.99 beats Wal-mart prices at just under $20. Same fabric, nearly same style.
Linda
10-23-07, 02:37 PM
#142
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Lots of good points here. I think if you're coming from a really wet climate -- lots of rain in the Winter -- then layering with cheap cotton sweats or denim is suicidal. You need water repellent equipment to ride in such conditions. Not water resistant. Water repellent. The cheap, clear plastic shell for the upper body is the obvious, frugal choice at about 20 bucks. But you will be more comfortable, and more safe in a goretex jacket with reflective piping. Goretex pants too. I also purchased goretex socks this year and am delighted with them.
A cold, dry climate -- sure, plaster yourself in cheap clothing; but in a cold, wet, rainy environment you wouldn't last a half hour in a cotton hoody, you'd be a massive sponge.
A cold, dry climate -- sure, plaster yourself in cheap clothing; but in a cold, wet, rainy environment you wouldn't last a half hour in a cotton hoody, you'd be a massive sponge.
10-24-07, 10:18 AM
#143
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I live in upstate NY (Albany, not the north country). I have mix of "technical gear" and "cheap gear". I have collected it over several years depending upon my budget. Upstate NY can have a very mixed bag for winter weather, cold and bitter, cold and wet, freezing rain, snow, turn around twice and you can have something different.
These comments are for me being outside, not just on a bike.
I avoid cotton. Wet cotton when it is cool or cold out is more trouble than it is worth. I made that mistake once and will not do it again.
I always wear gloves. Over time I have com around to wearing windproof ski gloves when it is cold out. Heavy emphasis on windproof.
Socks, I avoid cotton like the plague. I started with a couple of the wicking sock liners that you can get at EMS/REI/LLBean. those helped my feet keep dry. I have since then moved onto to Underarmor socks and a couple pair of the mixed wool/poly socks. I have found wet feet make me cranky a lot faster than cold feet.
For pants, currently I use a pair of bike shorts and a pair of heavy weight BDU pants. The heavy weight BDU pants are reasonably wind stopping and the tights keep me warm. Depending on the temperature (this being the fall still) I may use the longer length tights.
Jacket: tried a sweat shirt, a leather jacket and have finally settled on a mid weight polypro jacket from EMS. I'll eventually get an outer shell for it as well.
I ride clipless. This means I'll probably end up with booties at some point.
These comments are for me being outside, not just on a bike.
I avoid cotton. Wet cotton when it is cool or cold out is more trouble than it is worth. I made that mistake once and will not do it again.
I always wear gloves. Over time I have com around to wearing windproof ski gloves when it is cold out. Heavy emphasis on windproof.
Socks, I avoid cotton like the plague. I started with a couple of the wicking sock liners that you can get at EMS/REI/LLBean. those helped my feet keep dry. I have since then moved onto to Underarmor socks and a couple pair of the mixed wool/poly socks. I have found wet feet make me cranky a lot faster than cold feet.
For pants, currently I use a pair of bike shorts and a pair of heavy weight BDU pants. The heavy weight BDU pants are reasonably wind stopping and the tights keep me warm. Depending on the temperature (this being the fall still) I may use the longer length tights.
Jacket: tried a sweat shirt, a leather jacket and have finally settled on a mid weight polypro jacket from EMS. I'll eventually get an outer shell for it as well.
I ride clipless. This means I'll probably end up with booties at some point.
10-24-07, 04:13 PM
#144
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I have a core over-heating problem; and a head, hands and feet freezing problem.
And, I know that cotton kills, and yet, after long experimentation, I have found that one short sleeve layer of cotton over my hi-tech base and under my hi-tech outer shells keeps me more comfortable.
I don't know why.
I use arm warmers and a vest to allow my armpits to breathe.
Remember, I have a core overheating issue.
I wear bibs with a water and wind resistant front, and a breathable back.
I ride with about six pairs of gloves, from inexpensive synthetic and natural liners (which I mix, match and layer), up to Lobster gloves.
Thick bar tape helps insulate my hands from my handlebars.
I now wear Lake boots, with only one layer of relatively thin Smartwool socks.
I find if I wear extra layers of socks, they get compressed and I actually get colder.
On the coldest days, around minus 15F here, my feet get cold at about an hour of riding.
Up until an hour, though, they feel good.
With a Swix ski cap under my helmet, full over-glasses goggles, and a beard, my head stays warm.
Most people think I under-dress, but it has taken me three years of constant experimentation to find the combinations that keep me warm, without overheating me.
Well-insulated head, feet and hands, and well-ventilated shoulders and armpits, seems to do it for me.
And, I know that cotton kills, and yet, after long experimentation, I have found that one short sleeve layer of cotton over my hi-tech base and under my hi-tech outer shells keeps me more comfortable.
I don't know why.
I use arm warmers and a vest to allow my armpits to breathe.
Remember, I have a core overheating issue.
I wear bibs with a water and wind resistant front, and a breathable back.
I ride with about six pairs of gloves, from inexpensive synthetic and natural liners (which I mix, match and layer), up to Lobster gloves.
Thick bar tape helps insulate my hands from my handlebars.
I now wear Lake boots, with only one layer of relatively thin Smartwool socks.
I find if I wear extra layers of socks, they get compressed and I actually get colder.
On the coldest days, around minus 15F here, my feet get cold at about an hour of riding.
Up until an hour, though, they feel good.
With a Swix ski cap under my helmet, full over-glasses goggles, and a beard, my head stays warm.
Most people think I under-dress, but it has taken me three years of constant experimentation to find the combinations that keep me warm, without overheating me.
Well-insulated head, feet and hands, and well-ventilated shoulders and armpits, seems to do it for me.
10-25-07, 11:25 PM
#145
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Aaaaarrrrggghhh. I can't take it any more. I've been lurking for over 9 months, when I first decided to climb on a bike for the first time in 20 years, and do a 7 mile commute. i have not missed a day since.
That said, I'm an old, active outdoorsman, former smoking cheapskate. How do I keep warm?
1- I keep poisons out of my sytem as best I can. Smoking messes with your circulation something fierce. Blood pumping through your body is ground zero for heat transfer. Sorry, but I will take your advice with a grain of salt as long as you profess to smoking.
2- I keep the wind off of me. Nylon shells are dirt cheap at any retailer, thrift store, etc.
3- Cotton is suicidal. Really. Cotton is rotten. Cotton kills ad nauseum.
4- Wool, silk, nylon, polypropolene, and other proprietary synthetic are where it's at. And much of this can be sourced on the cheap.
5- Exit strategy. I commute 7 miles, but some of it is in some pretty darn dense woods. a 1 mile walk at -10f would leave my son with just his mommy. That's not on my agenda. My bag, believe it or not, also contains matches, a home made firestarting briquette, 4 chemical heaters, and always, always, a cell phone.
6- creative layers. I've bought 3 pairs of black womens nylon tights over the years. Underneath some thin wool pants and a nylon windshell; stylin'!!!
If you are still wearing cotton after November, it's only due to innexperience, foolishness or poverty. There is little virtue in these. You can stay alive and quite comfortable, and still be smart.
How you gonna roll?
That said, I'm an old, active outdoorsman, former smoking cheapskate. How do I keep warm?
1- I keep poisons out of my sytem as best I can. Smoking messes with your circulation something fierce. Blood pumping through your body is ground zero for heat transfer. Sorry, but I will take your advice with a grain of salt as long as you profess to smoking.
2- I keep the wind off of me. Nylon shells are dirt cheap at any retailer, thrift store, etc.
3- Cotton is suicidal. Really. Cotton is rotten. Cotton kills ad nauseum.
4- Wool, silk, nylon, polypropolene, and other proprietary synthetic are where it's at. And much of this can be sourced on the cheap.
5- Exit strategy. I commute 7 miles, but some of it is in some pretty darn dense woods. a 1 mile walk at -10f would leave my son with just his mommy. That's not on my agenda. My bag, believe it or not, also contains matches, a home made firestarting briquette, 4 chemical heaters, and always, always, a cell phone.
6- creative layers. I've bought 3 pairs of black womens nylon tights over the years. Underneath some thin wool pants and a nylon windshell; stylin'!!!
If you are still wearing cotton after November, it's only due to innexperience, foolishness or poverty. There is little virtue in these. You can stay alive and quite comfortable, and still be smart.
How you gonna roll?
10-26-07, 04:16 AM
#146
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I don't usually bother with camping gear when within an hour's walk of civilization. Of course, if I fall and break my leg so I can't even walk, I'll suffer for it. But it's not a problem for the great majority of mishaps.
The bits I didn't quote are spot on, though.
10-26-07, 05:19 AM
#147
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I hope this post is a joke and we're all just missing the point. If it's not a joke, then I hope you enjoy your 10 mph winter rides . . .
10-26-07, 07:54 AM
#148
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You mean you don't carry emergency signal flares on your commute too?
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Two wheels good. Four wheels bad.
10-26-07, 12:06 PM
#149
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...
5- Exit strategy. I commute 7 miles, but some of it is in some pretty darn dense woods. a 1 mile walk at -10f would leave my son with just his mommy. That's not on my agenda. My bag, believe it or not, also contains matches, a home made firestarting briquette, 4 chemical heaters, and always, always, a cell phone.
...
How you gonna roll?
5- Exit strategy. I commute 7 miles, but some of it is in some pretty darn dense woods. a 1 mile walk at -10f would leave my son with just his mommy. That's not on my agenda. My bag, believe it or not, also contains matches, a home made firestarting briquette, 4 chemical heaters, and always, always, a cell phone.
...
How you gonna roll?
had lots of experience cross-country skiing in all sorts of conditions, but on one particularly stupid day I got caught out cross-country skiing at -20F when the conditions turned into a blizzard: 20 to 30 mph winds, gradually increasing snow count, ski tracks disappearing with the new snow, visibility down to ten feet. I counted myself very lucky to get back. If the same happened to you on the bike path, the clothes that were warm enough while riding are most likely not warm enough when sitting and hoping to wait until the storm dies down.
That's not too likely in DC, but I still always carry a space blanket. An hour spent sitting with a mechanical or a twisted ankle waiting for my wife to beat her way through traffic to pick me up could be a very long hour.
10-26-07, 02:41 PM
#150
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you know, as winter commuters, we're not just doing this for ourselves, but we're doing it for others. we need to be the inspiration for those that are locked up in their heated recycled air coffins. we need to have them look at us and say, wow, i can do that.
i have nothing against being thrifty, but realize that the perception of a biker in faded $5 turquoise sweats, you know the ones with oil stains and holes, head wrapped up in scarves, and tattered wool gloves is that of a bum. no one in their fuel guzzling mind is going to want to join.
I'll take my $150 pearl izumi wonder tights, smartly priced smart wool, fitted $200 cannondale jersey, and NASA budgeted porsche of a commuting bike and happily wait for the light to turn green...as i stare out across the intersection, steam coming out of my mouth, i know the cars are looking. i can smile at the dude in the beat up chevy chevette next to me. yeah, guess who's having more fun?
i have nothing against being thrifty, but realize that the perception of a biker in faded $5 turquoise sweats, you know the ones with oil stains and holes, head wrapped up in scarves, and tattered wool gloves is that of a bum. no one in their fuel guzzling mind is going to want to join.
I'll take my $150 pearl izumi wonder tights, smartly priced smart wool, fitted $200 cannondale jersey, and NASA budgeted porsche of a commuting bike and happily wait for the light to turn green...as i stare out across the intersection, steam coming out of my mouth, i know the cars are looking. i can smile at the dude in the beat up chevy chevette next to me. yeah, guess who's having more fun?