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Winter Cycling Don't let snow and ice discourage you this winter. The key element to year-round cycling is proper attire! Check out this winter cycling forum to chat with other ice bike fanatics.

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Old 12-16-07, 05:50 PM   #1
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Studs: If I had to do it again

I recently bought Nokian M&G's. They're a fine tire. I can ride in the ice and snow. But if I was going to do it again, without a doubt, I would buy the most aggressive, highly studded tire I could find. Probably the 294's.
I bought the M&G's because I figured they would cut down on rolling resistance. With studs you are going to have resistance anyway, so why not get all the traction you can? When I'm out riding I do not want to fall. Anything that will keep me upright is worth it.
Maybe I can sell he M&G's and get the 294's.
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Old 12-16-07, 06:06 PM   #2
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I recently bought Nokian M&G's. They're a fine tire. I can ride in the ice and snow. But if I was going to do it again, without a doubt, I would buy the most aggressive, highly studded tire I could find. Probably the 294's.
I bought the M&G's because I figured they would cut down on rolling resistance. With studs you are going to have resistance anyway, so why not get all the traction you can? When I'm out riding I do not want to fall. Anything that will keep me upright is worth it.
Maybe I can sell he M&G's and get the 294's.
You're rationale sounds a lot like mine but I doubt that i will get rid of my M & G's. I haven't owned the 294's but i can imagine that the added rolling resistance is severe. And on top of that there is no guarantee that they will eliminate the threat from some ice conditions, and it goes without saying that they are more expensive.
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Old 12-16-07, 08:32 PM   #3
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I went with the 294's and I'm glad I did. I am not worried about rolling resistance because I don't commute. Just ride for fun. You can make them spin on sheer ice if you want, but if you are smooth with the inputs, the traction is amazing. now for a nice hard freeze... :-)
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Old 12-17-07, 10:51 AM   #4
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I just ordered a set of Extremes. I'm going to test them out and see how they compare, then keep whatever combo seems the most appropriate. Based on my experience i just keep thinking that there should be a better studded tire than these Mount and Ground's. There is just something about them that doesn't give me confidence on ice.

Since the first day i installed them last winter, I haven't had the same level of confidence that i had with my old Nashbar studded tires. THe main reason is that i feel slippage from time to time with the Mount and Grounds. I hardly ever felt that with the Nashbar tires and they were supposed to be inferior.

With the Extreme's i should definitely have enough studs now.
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Old 12-17-07, 02:23 PM   #5
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Pretty much my philosophy. These things are heavy and slow no matter what, so why not jump in with both feet?
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Old 12-17-07, 04:55 PM   #6
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heavy and slow in the winter = fast, easy and stronger in the spring
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Old 12-17-07, 05:14 PM   #7
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Although i'm in the Schwalbe camp, my sentiments exactly. The Snow Studs in comparison to the Ice Spikers, don't do what they're designed to do as well, and don't really roll *that* much better. The one thing I wish the Spikers had is a reflective sidewall, seems like the new marathon winters have it all.
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Old 12-18-07, 07:48 AM   #8
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big bummer. Wish this was posted two weeks ago! I just got the mount and grounds. It's my first winter riding and I did find them pretty funky on the ice. Then again, I've got a lot to learn about winter biking. I'll be watching this for more posts. Hopefully someone out there likes the m&gs!
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Old 12-18-07, 09:47 AM   #9
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big bummer. Wish this was posted two weeks ago! I just got the mount and grounds. It's my first winter riding and I did find them pretty funky on the ice. Then again, I've got a lot to learn about winter biking. I'll be watching this for more posts. Hopefully someone out there likes the m&gs!
The verdict is still out in my book. I am on my second winter with the Nokian Mount and Grounds. Up until recently I was pretty happy with them. But our recent extreme icy weather proved that they weren't up to the task. Why that is, is still not determined in my book.

I know we have had some of the worst conditions here lately that i have ever ridden in. Glaze ice over everything, was the worst of these. Still i don't think that makes these tires awful. Like i said, this is the 2nds year i have used them and generally i have been happy. This morning i just rode 20 miles out on the county unpaved roads with them and got a long great. Most of the road surfaces were compacted snow/ice and these tires did great on those surfaces.

I guess their failures on severe ice really surprised me. So i ordered a set of the Nokian Extremes. I will be sure to post my results here because i am as interested as anyone else. For one, i know they will be slower, which isn't great news but if they are more secure than i will take that trade off.
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Old 12-18-07, 01:21 PM   #10
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I'm sure I've posted this pic before, but the ice this day was rock hard, and the trail up to this point was pretty steep, and the 294's were confidence inspiring. Haven't tried the M&G's. Will be getting the Hakka's next time. I did another ride in March with 2+ inches of snow over ice and the tires worked great.

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Old 12-18-07, 01:37 PM   #11
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If either of you want to sell the M & Gs... lotsa buyers on here, including myself. 26" MTB.
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Old 12-18-07, 04:00 PM   #12
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Hmmm. I might. Still sorting this out. Only 14 miles on them so far. I might just be having newbie chills. But watch this space. The roads here aren't plowed too well.
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Old 12-19-07, 10:46 AM   #13
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So with the temperature above zero and the roads clear (and all my off-road short cuts still snowed under) I took the Nokian 300s off this morning and put my high-pressure slicks on.

On the 45 minute ride in this saved me..... four minutes.

I was a bit bummed, as I have been using the studded tires as an excuse for some pretty slow ride times.
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Old 12-19-07, 11:15 AM   #14
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Yup, it was an easy choice for me. The 294s will get you through about anything. Speed is not an issue for me in the Winter.



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Old 12-19-07, 11:23 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sknhgy View Post
I recently bought Nokian M&G's. They're a fine tire. I can ride in the ice and snow. But if I was going to do it again, without a doubt, I would buy the most aggressive, highly studded tire I could find. Probably the 294's.
I bought the M&G's because I figured they would cut down on rolling resistance. With studs you are going to have resistance anyway, so why not get all the traction you can? When I'm out riding I do not want to fall. Anything that will keep me upright is worth it.
Maybe I can sell he M&G's and get the 294's.
What about when you have you have to stop on plowed roads? Then you just slide if you have too many studs.
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Old 12-19-07, 11:36 AM   #16
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What about when you have you have to stop on plowed roads? Then you just slide if you have too many studs.
No, you don't. The rubber of the tire should still be contacting the road surface. Lower the pressure.
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Old 12-19-07, 11:55 AM   #17
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What about when you have you have to stop on plowed roads? Then you just slide if you have too many studs.
I've only ever had this problem on very smooth concrete in a new parking garage.

Every other surface I've encountered is rough enough that I've never had issues.
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Old 12-19-07, 12:15 PM   #18
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What about when you have you have to stop on plowed roads? Then you just slide if you have too many studs.
This is one of the biggest LIES regarding studded tires ever mentioned. You do not SLIDE on pavement with studded tires. Why would you? Hell, you don't slide on ice, why would you slide on a rough paved surface?
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Old 12-19-07, 12:40 PM   #19
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Traction with studded tires on pavement is not really different than with a similar tire that does not have studs. Sorry.

The only difference is noise.
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Old 12-19-07, 12:47 PM   #20
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No, you don't. The rubber of the tire should still be contacting the road surface. Lower the pressure.
I've only ever slid once on my studded tires, and that was on a wet, steel plate that was covering a construction hole. I would have slid on that plate with regular, rubber tires, too.

My first winter with studs, I had an Extreme on the front and a M&G on the back. That worked pretty well, except that I found that the M&G had a tendency to get stuck in ruts that the Extreme had climbed out of, so then the rear end would slide in the rut. It never caused me to go down, but it was worrisome and a bit of a handful. I now have Extreme's on both ends, and feel substantially more confident.
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Old 12-19-07, 01:23 PM   #21
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Traction with studded tires on pavement is not really different than with a similar tire that does not have studs. Sorry.

The only difference is noise.
I use studded tires (Nokian 106), and I know that on ice they are wonderful, they are okay on pavement, and on cobblestones they border on dangerous. There is no way I'd need more studs unless I was riding in the forest or on a frozen lake.

FWIW the first few km of my commute is on unplowed roads which literally turn to sheets of ice. More isn't always better.
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Old 12-19-07, 01:26 PM   #22
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This is one of the biggest LIES regarding studded tires ever mentioned. You do not SLIDE on pavement with studded tires. Why would you? Hell, you don't slide on ice, why would you slide on a rough paved surface?
Because the studs don't have anything soft like ice to grip.
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Old 12-19-07, 02:05 PM   #23
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This is one of the biggest LIES regarding studded tires ever mentioned. You do not SLIDE on pavement with studded tires. Why would you? Hell, you don't slide on ice, why would you slide on a rough paved surface?
Don't ask me. Ask Sheldon Brown:

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Knobby tires perform extremely badly on paved surfaces. The knobs greatly increase rolling resistance, and create annoying vibrations. They also corner badly on pavement, due to squirm.
Of course, this is because most studded tires are knobbies, not because of the studs themselves. I've never tried slick tires with studs, so I don't know how that would work on pavement. I have tried knobbies on pavement frequently, and I know that fast cornering on pavement is a trip.
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Old 12-19-07, 02:23 PM   #24
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I prefer slick tires for almost all of my riding (including off-road racing sometimes) but I've never noticed much difference between full slicks and most knobby tires on corners. In fact, I probably break the slicks loose more often, since most of the year there is sand and dust in the equation.

Generally off-road tires are wider and lower pressure than road tires, and in my experience the extra contact area more than offsets any traction loss or unpredictability introduced by the treads. Perhaps this is a subjective thing, as I gew up on mountain bikes and went into road bikes later.

But that's not the issue with studs. On smooth concrete there are no little divots for the studs to settle into, and if you have the pressure up, functionally you are riding on metal tires. Yes, they slide.

Again, it's no lie, but it's also not a big deal, unless you do a lot of cornering on really new smooth concrete in your winter riding.
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Old 12-19-07, 02:48 PM   #25
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I prefer slick tires for almost all of my riding (including off-road racing sometimes) but I've never noticed much difference between full slicks and most knobby tires on corners. In fact, I probably break the slicks loose more often, since most of the year there is sand and dust in the equation.

Generally off-road tires are wider and lower pressure than road tires, and in my experience the extra contact area more than offsets any traction loss or unpredictability introduced by the treads. Perhaps this is a subjective thing, as I gew up on mountain bikes and went into road bikes later.

But that's not the issue with studs. On smooth concrete there are no little divots for the studs to settle into, and if you have the pressure up, functionally you are riding on metal tires. Yes, they slide.

Again, it's no lie, but it's also not a big deal, unless you do a lot of cornering on really new smooth concrete in your winter riding.
Or you have way more studs than are needed for riding on roads.
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