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  1. #1
    Dirt Bomb sknhgy's Avatar
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    Studs: If I had to do it again

    I recently bought Nokian M&G's. They're a fine tire. I can ride in the ice and snow. But if I was going to do it again, without a doubt, I would buy the most aggressive, highly studded tire I could find. Probably the 294's.
    I bought the M&G's because I figured they would cut down on rolling resistance. With studs you are going to have resistance anyway, so why not get all the traction you can? When I'm out riding I do not want to fall. Anything that will keep me upright is worth it.
    Maybe I can sell he M&G's and get the 294's.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sknhgy View Post
    I recently bought Nokian M&G's. They're a fine tire. I can ride in the ice and snow. But if I was going to do it again, without a doubt, I would buy the most aggressive, highly studded tire I could find. Probably the 294's.
    I bought the M&G's because I figured they would cut down on rolling resistance. With studs you are going to have resistance anyway, so why not get all the traction you can? When I'm out riding I do not want to fall. Anything that will keep me upright is worth it.
    Maybe I can sell he M&G's and get the 294's.
    You're rationale sounds a lot like mine but I doubt that i will get rid of my M & G's. I haven't owned the 294's but i can imagine that the added rolling resistance is severe. And on top of that there is no guarantee that they will eliminate the threat from some ice conditions, and it goes without saying that they are more expensive.

  3. #3
    Senior Member rbrsddn's Avatar
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    I went with the 294's and I'm glad I did. I am not worried about rolling resistance because I don't commute. Just ride for fun. You can make them spin on sheer ice if you want, but if you are smooth with the inputs, the traction is amazing. now for a nice hard freeze... :-)
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    I just ordered a set of Extremes. I'm going to test them out and see how they compare, then keep whatever combo seems the most appropriate. Based on my experience i just keep thinking that there should be a better studded tire than these Mount and Ground's. There is just something about them that doesn't give me confidence on ice.

    Since the first day i installed them last winter, I haven't had the same level of confidence that i had with my old Nashbar studded tires. THe main reason is that i feel slippage from time to time with the Mount and Grounds. I hardly ever felt that with the Nashbar tires and they were supposed to be inferior.

    With the Extreme's i should definitely have enough studs now.

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    Sensible shoes. CastIron's Avatar
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    Pretty much my philosophy. These things are heavy and slow no matter what, so why not jump in with both feet?
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    heavy and slow in the winter = fast, easy and stronger in the spring

  7. #7
    Hooligan Abneycat's Avatar
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    Although i'm in the Schwalbe camp, my sentiments exactly. The Snow Studs in comparison to the Ice Spikers, don't do what they're designed to do as well, and don't really roll *that* much better. The one thing I wish the Spikers had is a reflective sidewall, seems like the new marathon winters have it all.

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    Senior Member mulchie's Avatar
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    big bummer. Wish this was posted two weeks ago! I just got the mount and grounds. It's my first winter riding and I did find them pretty funky on the ice. Then again, I've got a lot to learn about winter biking. I'll be watching this for more posts. Hopefully someone out there likes the m&gs!
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    Quote Originally Posted by mulchie View Post
    big bummer. Wish this was posted two weeks ago! I just got the mount and grounds. It's my first winter riding and I did find them pretty funky on the ice. Then again, I've got a lot to learn about winter biking. I'll be watching this for more posts. Hopefully someone out there likes the m&gs!
    The verdict is still out in my book. I am on my second winter with the Nokian Mount and Grounds. Up until recently I was pretty happy with them. But our recent extreme icy weather proved that they weren't up to the task. Why that is, is still not determined in my book.

    I know we have had some of the worst conditions here lately that i have ever ridden in. Glaze ice over everything, was the worst of these. Still i don't think that makes these tires awful. Like i said, this is the 2nds year i have used them and generally i have been happy. This morning i just rode 20 miles out on the county unpaved roads with them and got a long great. Most of the road surfaces were compacted snow/ice and these tires did great on those surfaces.

    I guess their failures on severe ice really surprised me. So i ordered a set of the Nokian Extremes. I will be sure to post my results here because i am as interested as anyone else. For one, i know they will be slower, which isn't great news but if they are more secure than i will take that trade off.

  10. #10
    Senior Member rbrsddn's Avatar
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    I'm sure I've posted this pic before, but the ice this day was rock hard, and the trail up to this point was pretty steep, and the 294's were confidence inspiring. Haven't tried the M&G's. Will be getting the Hakka's next time. I did another ride in March with 2+ inches of snow over ice and the tires worked great.
    Last edited by rbrsddn; 12-18-07 at 12:27 PM.
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    --End Transmission-- Klaw's Avatar
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    If either of you want to sell the M & Gs... lotsa buyers on here, including myself. 26" MTB.

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    Senior Member mulchie's Avatar
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    Hmmm. I might. Still sorting this out. Only 14 miles on them so far. I might just be having newbie chills. But watch this space. The roads here aren't plowed too well.
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    So with the temperature above zero and the roads clear (and all my off-road short cuts still snowed under) I took the Nokian 300s off this morning and put my high-pressure slicks on.

    On the 45 minute ride in this saved me..... four minutes.

    I was a bit bummed, as I have been using the studded tires as an excuse for some pretty slow ride times.

  14. #14
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    Yup, it was an easy choice for me. The 294s will get you through about anything. Speed is not an issue for me in the Winter.



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    Senior Member Ziemas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sknhgy View Post
    I recently bought Nokian M&G's. They're a fine tire. I can ride in the ice and snow. But if I was going to do it again, without a doubt, I would buy the most aggressive, highly studded tire I could find. Probably the 294's.
    I bought the M&G's because I figured they would cut down on rolling resistance. With studs you are going to have resistance anyway, so why not get all the traction you can? When I'm out riding I do not want to fall. Anything that will keep me upright is worth it.
    Maybe I can sell he M&G's and get the 294's.
    What about when you have you have to stop on plowed roads? Then you just slide if you have too many studs.

  16. #16
    Senior Member rankin116's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziemas View Post
    What about when you have you have to stop on plowed roads? Then you just slide if you have too many studs.
    No, you don't. The rubber of the tire should still be contacting the road surface. Lower the pressure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziemas View Post
    What about when you have you have to stop on plowed roads? Then you just slide if you have too many studs.
    I've only ever had this problem on very smooth concrete in a new parking garage.

    Every other surface I've encountered is rough enough that I've never had issues.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziemas View Post
    What about when you have you have to stop on plowed roads? Then you just slide if you have too many studs.
    This is one of the biggest LIES regarding studded tires ever mentioned. You do not SLIDE on pavement with studded tires. Why would you? Hell, you don't slide on ice, why would you slide on a rough paved surface?

  19. #19
    Hooligan Abneycat's Avatar
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    Traction with studded tires on pavement is not really different than with a similar tire that does not have studs. Sorry.

    The only difference is noise.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by rankin116 View Post
    No, you don't. The rubber of the tire should still be contacting the road surface. Lower the pressure.
    I've only ever slid once on my studded tires, and that was on a wet, steel plate that was covering a construction hole. I would have slid on that plate with regular, rubber tires, too.

    My first winter with studs, I had an Extreme on the front and a M&G on the back. That worked pretty well, except that I found that the M&G had a tendency to get stuck in ruts that the Extreme had climbed out of, so then the rear end would slide in the rut. It never caused me to go down, but it was worrisome and a bit of a handful. I now have Extreme's on both ends, and feel substantially more confident.

  21. #21
    Senior Member Ziemas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abneycat View Post
    Traction with studded tires on pavement is not really different than with a similar tire that does not have studs. Sorry.

    The only difference is noise.
    I use studded tires (Nokian 106), and I know that on ice they are wonderful, they are okay on pavement, and on cobblestones they border on dangerous. There is no way I'd need more studs unless I was riding in the forest or on a frozen lake.

    FWIW the first few km of my commute is on unplowed roads which literally turn to sheets of ice. More isn't always better.

  22. #22
    Senior Member Ziemas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Portis View Post
    This is one of the biggest LIES regarding studded tires ever mentioned. You do not SLIDE on pavement with studded tires. Why would you? Hell, you don't slide on ice, why would you slide on a rough paved surface?
    Because the studs don't have anything soft like ice to grip.

  23. #23
    Sophomoric Member Roody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Portis View Post
    This is one of the biggest LIES regarding studded tires ever mentioned. You do not SLIDE on pavement with studded tires. Why would you? Hell, you don't slide on ice, why would you slide on a rough paved surface?
    Don't ask me. Ask Sheldon Brown:

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheldon brown
    Knobby tires perform extremely badly on paved surfaces. The knobs greatly increase rolling resistance, and create annoying vibrations. They also corner badly on pavement, due to squirm.
    Of course, this is because most studded tires are knobbies, not because of the studs themselves. I've never tried slick tires with studs, so I don't know how that would work on pavement. I have tried knobbies on pavement frequently, and I know that fast cornering on pavement is a trip.


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    I prefer slick tires for almost all of my riding (including off-road racing sometimes) but I've never noticed much difference between full slicks and most knobby tires on corners. In fact, I probably break the slicks loose more often, since most of the year there is sand and dust in the equation.

    Generally off-road tires are wider and lower pressure than road tires, and in my experience the extra contact area more than offsets any traction loss or unpredictability introduced by the treads. Perhaps this is a subjective thing, as I gew up on mountain bikes and went into road bikes later.

    But that's not the issue with studs. On smooth concrete there are no little divots for the studs to settle into, and if you have the pressure up, functionally you are riding on metal tires. Yes, they slide.

    Again, it's no lie, but it's also not a big deal, unless you do a lot of cornering on really new smooth concrete in your winter riding.

  25. #25
    Senior Member Ziemas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghettocruiser View Post
    I prefer slick tires for almost all of my riding (including off-road racing sometimes) but I've never noticed much difference between full slicks and most knobby tires on corners. In fact, I probably break the slicks loose more often, since most of the year there is sand and dust in the equation.

    Generally off-road tires are wider and lower pressure than road tires, and in my experience the extra contact area more than offsets any traction loss or unpredictability introduced by the treads. Perhaps this is a subjective thing, as I gew up on mountain bikes and went into road bikes later.

    But that's not the issue with studs. On smooth concrete there are no little divots for the studs to settle into, and if you have the pressure up, functionally you are riding on metal tires. Yes, they slide.

    Again, it's no lie, but it's also not a big deal, unless you do a lot of cornering on really new smooth concrete in your winter riding.
    Or you have way more studs than are needed for riding on roads.

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