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  1. #1
    Senior Member patrick07's Avatar
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    Studded tires... but don't want the studs anymore

    The question:

    If I remove the studs from my Innova 700x35 snow tires for use on trails, what sort of trouble am I asking for?

    The background:

    Today, I went out on a nice 25 mile ride, half of which was on sloppy gravel/dirt roads that I hadn't been on before. My WTB All-Terrainasaurus tires were pretty worthless on this surface. It really reminded me of slushy winter conditions, to be honest. You know when you get the sensation that the back end of the bike is doing it's own thing or you believe you're getting a flat tire. That was my experience for the middle 10 miles of this ride on otherwise beautifully deserted country roads. The final insult was the slow leak I had when I arrived home due to a tiny piece of glass that had worked it's way through the thin tread of the tire. I think that I just have to accept the fact that the WTB's are going to have to go in the trash. They're just too unreliable for riding in inclement weather and riding with unpredictable road conditions.

    I started looking at my old snow tires and thought that the tread pattern would be great for the type of riding I did today. I'm sure I would have descended more confidently and put in more effort on the flat sections if I weren't concerned for my safety. I don't anticipate using them as snow/ice tires any more so what would be the harm in removing the rusted studs? Experience has taught me that my Monocog 29er is sufficient for about 98% of the riding I do between November and March (commuting exclusively) so having studded tires just isn't that important for me. Not to mention, two seasons of use has worn the Innova studs down pretty good. Not completely, but close.

    With all this in mind, are the small recessed areas in the tire going to attract more debris and perhaps be more prone to flats or is the casing as thick there as it is on the rest of the tire?

    Here is a picture of tire (when it was new) in order to show the placement of the studs.

    Any help would be greatly appreciated.

    Sincerely,
    Patrick
    ...

  2. #2
    AEO
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    I'm surprised most of your studs on the innova haven't fallen out already

    no problem with just using them as studless snow tyres IMO.
    the tread will probably wear down faster because snow tyres usually use a softer compound.
    Food for thought: if you aren't dead by 2050, you and your entire family will be within a few years from starvation. Now that is a cruel gift to leave for your offspring. ;)
    http://sanfrancisco.ibtimes.com/arti...ger-photos.htm

  3. #3
    Senior Member patrick07's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AEO View Post
    I'm surprised most of your studs on the innova haven't fallen out already
    I, at first, thought it odd that they offered an inexpensive stud replacement kit. Now, I know better...
    ...

  4. #4
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    Tires aren't really that expensive. Why not save yourself the time and just buy new ones. It'll take you forever to remove those studs
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  5. #5
    Senior Member patrick07's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by macteacher View Post
    Tires aren't really that expensive. Why not save yourself the time and just buy new ones. It'll take you forever to remove those studs

    Part 1: You are correct about tires not being expensive. I had my eye on some Michelin Jets but to get them, I'd probably have to order them. Unfortunately, my area is not a cyclocross hotbed and a snow/rain mix is in the forecast. Timing was a factor.

    Part 2: Oh, I wanted to buy new ones. See part 1.

    Part 3: No, it does not take forever. It takes three hours, a handful of tools, four chocolate chip cookies, five bleeding wounds, and one sore back.

    Honestly, the slam on the Innova tires was the longevity of the studs. I read that before I bought them but somehow thought it would be different for me. They lost their usefulness after the first season due to wear. Ninety dollars seems a bit pricey for a one-season-only set of tires but you live and you learn. The upside is that I now have lighter mud and snow tires with half centimeter deep tread.
    ...

  6. #6
    AEO
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    I hear michelin jets are really fast wearing, the innovas will last longer if the rubber is harder than the jets.

    snow/mud does indeed seem to be the same sort of tread pattern.
    Food for thought: if you aren't dead by 2050, you and your entire family will be within a few years from starvation. Now that is a cruel gift to leave for your offspring. ;)
    http://sanfrancisco.ibtimes.com/arti...ger-photos.htm

  7. #7
    Senior Member patrick07's Avatar
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    I simply do not enjoy the rain/snow transition that we get here in Michigan. Its tough to plan for. If its just rain, fine. If its just snow and ice, I've got equipment for that. When a rainy morning turns into a slushy evening commute, that drives me nuts.

    I had a ride home last year where the meteorologists called for less than one inch of a rain/snow mix and it turned out to be closer to six inches of snowy accumulation. I didn't prepare too well for that.
    ...

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by AEO View Post
    I hear michelin jets are really fast wearing
    Fast wearing is subjective, but I've gotten about 4,000 km out the rear and the front is still going. I'm kind of a fan now actually... if I can ever find them on sale again.

    The marathons corner like a shopping cart by comparison.

  9. #9
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    Are you suggesting the studded tires I purchased (also for 90 bucks) will roughly last me a season?

    That's ****ty, see'ing as it's $90 * 2
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  10. #10
    surly old man jgedwa's Avatar
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    As a fellow cheapskate, I appreciate the idea of reusing what you already have.

    But, studded tires are kind of nice thing to have laying around. I would be reluctant to take a tire that cost something like $50 and use it as a $12 fudge.

    jim
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  11. #11
    BeaverTerror Yan's Avatar
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    What's the point of removing the studs? Just ride them till the studs wear flat. On those cheap tires that shouldn't take long at all.
    Yan

    2013 True North custom touring; 2010 Novara Randonee; 2009 Unicycle.com Club 24"; 1989 Miele Tivoli; 1979 Colnago Sport

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by macteacher View Post
    Are you suggesting the studded tires I purchased (also for 90 bucks) will roughly last me a season?
    No. Those things last forever.

  13. #13
    AEO
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    innova uses steel studs, but schwalbe and nokian use tungsten carbide studs which are harder than steel.
    Food for thought: if you aren't dead by 2050, you and your entire family will be within a few years from starvation. Now that is a cruel gift to leave for your offspring. ;)
    http://sanfrancisco.ibtimes.com/arti...ger-photos.htm

  14. #14
    Senior Member coldfeet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by patrick07 View Post
    I simply do not enjoy the rain/snow transition that we get here in Michigan. Its tough to plan for. If its just rain, fine. If its just snow and ice, I've got equipment for that. When a rainy morning turns into a slushy evening commute, that drives me nuts.

    I had a ride home last year where the meteorologists called for less than one inch of a rain/snow mix and it turned out to be closer to six inches of snowy accumulation. I didn't prepare too well for that.
    Winter before last, I checked the forecast at 9 AM, not one word about snow, 20 minutes later, riding to work, "whats this white stuff?" by 11 AM we had 2 inches and it didn't let up till 3 PM. grrrrr.

  15. #15
    50000 Guatts of power 127.0.0.1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by macteacher View Post
    Are you suggesting the studded tires I purchased (also for 90 bucks) will roughly last me a season?

    That's ****ty, see'ing as it's $90 * 2
    if you spent that, they are nokians, right ?

    they will last 5 winters, maybe 7
    I like fat bikes
    and I cannot lie.

  16. #16
    Senior Member patrick07's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by macteacher View Post
    Are you suggesting the studded tires I purchased (also for 90 bucks) will roughly last me a season?

    That's ****ty, see'ing as it's $90 * 2
    No, $45 * 2 = $90. The Innova tires are not as good as Nokian or Schwalbe. I discovered, the expensive way, that the material used for the studs is just as important as number and placement. I went cheap and got cheap.
    ...

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by patrick07 View Post
    No, $45 * 2 = $90. The Innova tires are not as good as Nokian or Schwalbe. I discovered, the expensive way, that the material used for the studs is just as important as number and placement. I went cheap and got cheap.
    I paid about $30 each for mine last Fall as I was not sure how much I'd ride through the Winter and found it hard to justify spending $52 each for Nokias. The steel studs pretty much ground down to the near worthless level in 2 months of use. I had one of my tires "blow up" while the bike sitting in my office. Holy c@p that was loud and startling. Turns out the bead failed. The tire was back-ordered for 2 to 3 weeks. I could not be off my bike that long so I orded a Nokia W106 from Peter White as a replacement and had it in one day. The tread between Nokia and Innova looked shockingly similar, but the big difference is between the steel and carbite studs. When we got some bad ice in February I went around a corner slowly. The Nokia front tire held on just fine, but the Innova rear tire did not get enough grip... and the bike and I went down hard. Lesson learned... steel studs are pretty much useless. I just bought an additional Nokia W106 to replace my one remaining Innova tire. My Nokia that I rode on for about 3 months last year shows pretty much no significant wear on the studs!

    If you want the tire for the tread, I'd say just leave the studs in place. Within a little while they will be worn down even with the rubber and so the won't help nor harm.

    Happy riding,
    André

  18. #18
    Senior Member patrick07's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andrelam View Post
    I paid about $30 each for mine last Fall as I was not sure how much I'd ride through the Winter and found it hard to justify spending $52 each for Nokias. The steel studs pretty much ground down to the near worthless level in 2 months of use. I had one of my tires "blow up" while the bike sitting in my office. Holy c@p that was loud and startling. Turns out the bead failed. The tire was back-ordered for 2 to 3 weeks. I could not be off my bike that long so I orded a Nokia W106 from Peter White as a replacement and had it in one day. The tread between Nokia and Innova looked shockingly similar, but the big difference is between the steel and carbite studs. When we got some bad ice in February I went around a corner slowly. The Nokia front tire held on just fine, but the Innova rear tire did not get enough grip... and the bike and I went down hard. Lesson learned... steel studs are pretty much useless. I just bought an additional Nokia W106 to replace my one remaining Innova tire. My Nokia that I rode on for about 3 months last year shows pretty much no significant wear on the studs!

    If you want the tire for the tread, I'd say just leave the studs in place. Within a little while they will be worn down even with the rubber and so the won't help nor harm.

    Happy riding,
    André
    The bead failure that you mentioned almost happened to me when I put them on last week. The bead itself didn't tear but it seems like it wasn't "hooked" enough to catch the lip of the rim. I had to deflate the front tire really fast while I watched the tire slip completely away from the rim.

    I did remove the studs anyway. I wasted about three hours doing it but they look pretty good now. I've gotten great traction in loose dirt with them and that's really all I was looking for. In the winter, because my commute is relatively easy, I use my Monocog with WTB ExiWolf tires. They're not studded but the wide tire and nicely spaced lugs handle slippery (black ice, ice chunks) conditions pretty well.

    Next time I get studded tires, I'm not going for the cheapest set I can find.
    ...

  19. #19
    Rider
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    Innova studs are steel, and will last about a season. Nokians are carbide and will last for years.
    Current stable: Sun Atlas X-type (mine), Trek Navigator 3 (wife), two Sun Revolution cruisers (wife, daughter)

  20. #20
    Retro-Direct Fan TwoShort's Avatar
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    If you wan to go cheap, I got tires manufactured by my local non-profit collective: lightly used knobies with masonry screws driven through them. $20 a tire. I rode them all winter last year; they wear down, particularly the rear, so this year I'll replace the front and move the current front to the back.

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