alfie43

It appears that the two winter cycling problems most frequently discussed on this forum are:

• Fogging eyewear
• Cold feet

I may have solved my fogging issue. As for the cold feet dilemma, I can’t offer any suggestions because I don’t have that problem, but more on that later.

I have said in previous posts, I am always wary of suggesting my winter cycling gear or clothing strategy, because we are different physically, we ride in different environments, we have different tolerances to cold weather, and most importantly, we differ in our riding duration and exertion level. What works for me, may not work for you.

With that said, I hopefully my solution to the fogging problem will work for many of you. My experience indicates that the fogging is the result of my warm moist exhale coming in contact with the inside cold surface of my eyewear and the fogging is actually condensation of that moisture.

I have observed that when I wear my balaclava under my chin and away from my nose and mouth, I have experienced very little, or no fogging. However, if I pull the balaclava up over my nose and mouth, my exhale is forced upward towards and under my eyewear and heavy fogging will occur. This led me to believe that the solution could be goggles with a tight seal between the goggles and my face.

I solved my fogging problem when I bought these goggles (see photo) for $7.88 at https://www.coopersafety.com/item/100...ar-lenses.aspx . I know that many of you have tried goggles and you reported here that they didn’t do the job. I was quite baffled as to why they worked for me and didn’t for others. I now conclude that some of you were probably using ski or snowmobile goggles. Not only are they much more expensive and heavier, they are also tinted too dark. Most importantly, these goggles have vent holes around the sides and bottom of the lenses. I would suggest that these vents are allowing your exhale to enter the inside the goggle and fogging the inside of your lenses. My goggles are industrial safety type; they are inexpensive, clear, lightweight, have no vents and offer the necessary air tight seal around my face to prevent any fogging. The difference is in the air tight seal.

Additionally, if you are like me and prefer to ride with an eye glass mounted rear view mirror. The use of goggles will necessitate that you mount the mirror on the visor of your helmet (see photo).

About the cold feet thing; as a former runner whose feet never got cold during the coldest of Michigan winters, I was warned by other IceBikers that my feet would freeze while winter cycling. So far, I have ridden in snow squalls with temps down to 20* and wind chills in the low teens and my feet aren’t cold yet…and that’s while wearing my Nike summer running shoes with mesh uppers (see photo).

Heck! I may go out tomorrow wearing flip-flops. Nah! Real men don’t wear flip-flops. <G>

Regards, Alfie

dekindy

I am glad what you are doing is working for you. Fogging is at best very annoying and can be very dangerous. It is like riding blind and nobody would consider that safe. But if an airtight seal is all you needed then diving masks would not fog.

Just plain, open safety glasses have worked the one time that I tested them. Snow and ice on the roads are preventing me from getting out now for further trials.

The safety glasses deflects cold air from your regular glasses so they don't get cold enough to condense moisture. Open is probably better to let air circulate moisture away. At least that is my theory as to why regular open glasses works. We have another thread going on this and I will report my future experiences both positive and negative relating to using open safety glasses.

The icebikers know a thing or two about this and this is what they recommend. See the very bottom of the page.
https://www.icebike.org/Clothing/Ctestedonice.htm

They are available here:
https://www.amazon.com/Visorgogs-Viso...9143422&sr=8-1

Hezz

Alfie,

It does not surprise me that running shoes are warmer that cycling shoes since the sole of a running shoe has a high insulation value compared to the hard plastic of a cycling shoe. Also, with the running shoes you are probably using a wide surface area pedal which distributes pressure over a wider area. That combined with the loose fit. It's no wonder running shoes are warmer.

However, you are probably blessed with better than average circulation in your feet. But even then, your experience does drive home to me just how much heat is lost out the bottom of the foot with clipless pedals and shoes.

Machka 

Plus, that little metal cleat in the bottom of a cycling shoe, attached to little metal pedals, gets very cold!

roadiejorge 

Fogging eyewear hasn't been an issue but cold feet were until I got my Sidi Hydro GTX. So far they've kept my feet warm in below 30F rides of 2+ hours without having to layer up with socks.

Shimagnolo

Shoes:
I just received a pair of Pearl Izumi Barrier GTX. With about 5 hours use on them so far, I am quite pleased. They are built as two separate uppers attached to one sole. The outer upper is stretchy with Goretex in it, and closes with a zipper and a velcro tab around the top. The inner upper is insulated with Thinsulate and closes with laces and a lock-tab. They have a thick removable insole. My only complaint is the d*mned velcro always wants to grab socks and/or tights while you are putting them on.

Glasses:
The best glasses for winter aren't made anymore. This stupid fad over recent years of making the lenses of sunglasses as small as possible, and fitting them close to the face, is the opposite of what is most effective. I still have a pair of cycling glasses that are about ten years old, and beat the heck out of my newer ones. They are blue-mirrored wraparounds that look very much like ski goggles, but w/o the rubber frame. They completely protect the eyes from wind, even severe crosswinds, but they stand off from the face far enough that they never fog. They also prevent dust from getting blown in my eyes in the dry summer climate here in CO.

alfie43

dekindy,

Not to be confrontational, but to maintain the dialog exchange so that we can learn from each other.

“if an airtight seal is all you needed then diving masks would not fog”
A diver’s mask will fog because his nose is inside the mask. As a diving instructor once told me, “If you try to exhale with your nose, the inside of your mask will fog”. To reiterate; fogging is caused by warm moist exhale condensing on the cold surfaces of our lenses. I maintain that if you keep those two apart, i.e., air tight goggles, there will be no fogging.

“open safety glasses have worked the one time that I tested them”
In my tests (more than once) a second pair of glasses over my primary glasses did reduce some of the fogging, but not to the point of safe vision.

May I suggest that tests should be conducted with restricted and covered breathing, i.e., with use of a balaclava over the nose and mouth? It is common knowledge that fogging, if any, is minimal with open unrestricted breathing, and it mostly occurs when covered exhale is deflected upwards towards the eyewear.

“Open is probably better to let air circulate moisture away”
My theory is: Air tight is necessary to prevent fogging in the first place…open is necessary after your glasses fog to circulate the moisture away.

“The Icebikers know a thing or two about this”
I absolutley love the Icebiker site and I am thankful to all for everything that I have learned there, but with all due respect, the contributors to the Icebike pages don’t have degrees in icebiking, They are cyclist who ride in the winter and share what they have learned. Therefore, we too, are The Icebikers.

Regards, Alfie

dekindy

alfie43

The goggles that you recommend say that they have indirect venting that increases airflow. You say yours have no vents. Please clarify.

Do you not believe that I, Jim from Boston, and the icebikers are getting positive results?

Jim from Boston

I wear open safety glasses and last week I posted on the toughest conditions I have encountered this winter:

One problem with I have had with eyewear, but no longer, is wearing prescription eyeglasses comfortably under goggles and having them not fog as well. From the link provided, those recommended goggles "... fit over most Rx spectacles" though wearing a helmet with straps and extra headwear may press uncomfortably on the eyeglasses forcing them down on the nose. So I certainly would want to try them out wearing full winter headgear.

Alfie43 also wrote, “Additionally, if you are like me and prefer to ride with an eye glass mounted rear view mirror [the use] of goggles will necessitate that you mount the mirror on the visor of your helmet.” I always wear an eyeglass mirror and have found that I used to always knock off helmet mounted mirrors, so I also like the rigid earpieces of safety glasses as discussed in previous threads as referred to by dekindy.

BTW, macteacher from Toronto, who has been posting about the fogging problem of eyeglasses and goggles since at least August started this thread, "My Solution to Foggy glasses and goggles" (Oct 5)

https://www.bikeforums.net/commuting/473559-my-solution-foggy-glasses-goggles.html

He added weatherstripping at the bottom of the goggles and made holes in the foam seal at the top. In his most recent post of Dec 4 to that thread he wrote, "My solution worked for some time. I ran into more problems. As the colder temps arrived and I was wearing more clothing and sweating more the fogging slowly creeped in, so I made more holes.... problem is i made to many holes... lol. My forehead started freezing as the cold air rushed in." I think one problem with tightly sealed goggles is that possibly warm moist air can still be exhaled with some pressure into the goggles, but the tight seal might act as a sort of one-way valve to prevent its exit. As the OP said, "What works for me, may not work for you."


PS: If you find this post tedious and/or repetitive, please report this to pcad at "The First Annual Pcad BF Road Cycling Futility Award Nominations" https://www.bikeforums.net/road-cycling/492984-first-annual-pcad-bf-road-cycling-futility-award-nominations.html

I am a nominee for the Award (post # 135 ;-)

dekindy

This week is not looking good for me riding outside. I don't ride unless my normal road bike with regular tires can go so snow and ice is out. My riding companions adhere to that philosophy also and are starting spin classes. I am going to get my backup bike set up on the trainer. It is probably good to take a break from the bike awhile anyway.

I am anxious to wear the open safety glasses under more extreme conditions and at different humidities. The first and only experience that I had was so wonderful that I could just not believe it and I hope this is the answer because nothing else I have tried has worked. I do not normally ride in conditions that require me to completely cover my face and nose but I do have an option for that also if needed. It has a membrane to warm incoming air and is almost too hot if that is possible.

This winter is a bummer. The previous two winters that I rode I was able to go all January and part of January respectively. Thanksgiving Day was wonderful here but I was not able to ride and the Tuesday prior is the last day that I was outside riding. November, surely not the end of the winter riding season for me but it could be. Just when I got the winter specific shoes that I have not had a chance to try and seem to found the answer to the fogging problem. Oh well, at least I am making progress and will be ready when the road conditions are favorable again.

Jim from Boston

I feel your pain; this November I was off the bike for eight days, five for illness and recovery, and three for rain. Though I ride in the winter, that layoff motivated me to start riding my mountain bike in the rain, and I am now looking into studded tires for winter ice, for possible 365 days-a-year riding. On my mileage spreadsheet I currently have an excuse column ;-)

I ride for health, but what gets me out nearly every day is commuting by bike to work. Have you considered that? (no reply necessary) After a while, I find that I start to welcome the challenging weather days, to test my preparations and to answer that usual question, "Did you RIDE today"?

alfie43

dekindy,

“Do your goggles have indirect venting”
Actually, I didn’t know my goggles were vented until you pointed that out. The vents are very small and any air flow would have to take a zig-zag-zig path to enter. Regardless, vents or not, the seal on lower portion of the goggle is a sufficient enough barrier to prevent my exhale from entering the interior of the goggle.

Do you not believe that I, Jim from Boston, and the Icebikers are getting positive results?
Of course, I do. I was addressing my suggestions to the many posters that were still experiencing fogging.

I have had several conversations with Jim, both here, and via PMs. You will note in Jim’s post #9 in this thread in which he states, “The face mask is a direct chute for warm moist air on to my upper cheeks and eyes….a heavy source of moisture to fog the eyeglasses and goggles. Jim goes on to say that he had to manipulate his face mask, his breathing direction, and his head position to eliminate most of the fogging. Perhaps if his outer safety goggles weren’t open at the bottom, but were sealed against his face, that might provide a barrier to his warm moist exhale.

Perhaps, there are other variables that I haven’t considered in this discussion. Other conditions could be the reason we are getting different individual results. For example, many of you wear prescription glasses, I do not. I wear sunglasses or the clear goggles for wind protection. Also, I don’t perspire a lot. If one sweats heavily, especially around the facial area, that could cause a higher probability of condensation…with, or without sealed goggles. I suspect that the varying amounts of perspiration between us may be the reason we are getting varying and seemingly conflicting results.

I hope this thread doesn't earn me a nomination for Jim's aforementioned "Futility Award".

Regards, Alfie (Mariano)

alfie43

Jim,

"I am now looking into studded tires for winter ice, for possible 365 days-a-year riding"
I too, will ride everyday this winter. However, I couldn't do so without my studded tires. You probably have read Peter White's informative pages on winter tires (https://www.peterwhitecycles.com/studdedtires.asp). With the tire specs therein matched to the winter conditions that I will encounter, I choose the Schwalbe Marathon Winters, a Kevlar constructed tire. At first, I was concerned about the increase in rolling resistance and noise, but they were not of any real significance. The sense of confidence that they provide me on winter road surfaces is well worth their slightly higher costs.

"After a while, I find that I start to welcome the challenging weather days...to test my preparations"
Yes! That's it! I couldn't agree with you more. That statement is the essence to being a 365 day cyclist (or runner). When you get to the point that you look forward and welcome the challenge, you "have arrived". Of course, it is important to dress properly and have the right equipment, but it is mostly about attitude. With the right attitude, you welcome, and even revel, any condition that each new day has to offer. Years ago, I ran through an entire Michigan January in running shorts, because I knew I could and I wanted the challenge.

I know that I am preaching to the choir, but I write this for others who maybe struggling at this critical time of the year.

Allow me to quote (edited) from the pages of IceBike as to why we do this.

"Other cyclists, cross country skiers and runners might understand. Once you get beyond people who are active out of doors it can be really hard to explain. Let’s face it: they think we are crazy. You might as well just enjoy yourself and not bother explaining it. After they see you biking through an entire winter or two they will stop asking why. They will just look at you in that special way reserved for harmless eccentrics"

Alfie (Mariano)

dekindy

Some people don't want to ride below 60 degrees Fahrenheit. Others have the clothing and equipment to ride 365 days per year. I am somewhere in between. I ride down into 20 degree weather as long as no special equipment is needed, i.e. fenders, studded tires, winter bike, etc.

The winter of 06/07 I was able to ride all year except for February and half of March. The winter of 07/08 I rode a few times in January and but was off the road for half of January, all of February, and half of March. This year I could have ridden Thanksgiving Day but have not been outside due to weather since the Tuesday before Thanksgiving. We are scheduled to have several fronts come through Indiana over the next 7-10 days so this winter may be a bust as far as riding on the road. Once the conditions get bad here, they usually stay bad until Spring so this may last until Spring.

I just noticed that our retention pond is freezing over. I have ridden when it was that cold but of course there was no snow or ice on the road. I heard we were supposed to have a harsher winter this year but did not want to believe. Right now "Old Man Winter" seems to be here to stay. The backup bike is definitely being set up on the trainer tomorrow.

I am already sleeping a lot more than normal and I fear that if I don't start excercising I may go into hibernation! Riding outdoors made the last two winters go a lot faster. I may go stir crazy if we don't have an early spring.

kemmer

For fogging, rainx on the inside and outside of your lenses will do wonders for both fogging and water/snow accumulation on the outside. I'm really surprised nobody has mentioned this yet.

dekindy

https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw...words=visorgog

New Year's Day ride temps were 30 degrees F. with winds in the 13-18 mph bringing the wind chill down to 20 degrees or below. I used these and they were comfortable and prevented fogging. I did get a little bit of fogging once and it went away quickly by turning my head to the side. The ones that I received were greeen instead of the blue pictured but I don't care as long as I can see. These will be a permanent part of my winter riding gear now.

pmt

I've already been on several rides this year at 15 deg F. No problem at all. I used ski goggles that have double lenses, and make sure the strap is angled up so as to get a good seal at the bottom. They're 100% fog free, and allow for a full-face balaclava for the whole ride. I specifically got goggles for nighttime skiing since it's dark each morning on the 0545 group ride.

Then I also wear Lake winter cycling shoes, which are nice and warm, and take a regular Look-style cleat, as well as SPD. I have no problems at all, and am pretty sure that I'll be fine when it gets colder as well.

It's nice to not have any hesitation at all about going out in the winter, especially since I ride every day during the workweek. The only thing that'll keep me in is rain; I don't ride in the rain under 55 deg F.

ghettocruiser

I just got back from a two hour mountain bike ride, just below freezing, light snow, lots of hills with deep snow where I had to get off and push, and low speeds most of the way. And I was riding almost as hard as I could

My snowboarding goggles did not fog up. Not even a little.

Yet other riders I ride with can fog a pair of the same goggles riding to the end of the street.

I have no idea why this is.

Hezz

I know there are individual differences in how hot the head and face gets while riding and this could be part of it. But I am convinced there is another factor based on my own experience.

I think some of it could be conditioning level. Some riders commute or ride for fun a few miles a week. They are in better shape than people who are sedentary but not in a high conditioning level like some cyclists who ride many hours and miles in warmer weather. When it gets cold and harder to pedal the less conditioned riders will be exerting more effort to ride in the cold and are likely to get heated up more. When the head gets really warm it's pretty hard to keep any kind of eyewear defogged.

Also, many riders are prone to wear too much on the head. Especially if they are not used to long riding times. Sometimes when it is cold it takes 10-20 minutes to warm up depending on the exertion level. Some riders with a 5 mile or shorter commute may only be on the bike for 10-15 minutes. And if they do not pedal at high intensity may not be used to having the body generate a lot of heat on it's own. So they may be prone to wearing too much on the head and face.

I also think that cardiovascular health may have something to do with it. If the circulation is very good the head will stay warmer easier on it's own at a lower blood pressure level ( this is my theory ). When I first started riding. My head would get very hot due to increased blood pressure and wearing too much due to lack of experience. I could not keep any eyewear defogged. I think that I am in better condition now due to better eating habits and more exercise.

I also think that my current approach of having more insulation around the neck and nothing on my face helps keep the glasses fog free. However, once it gets down to 15F or lower I generally have to put on a balaclava. It is harder to keep the glasses fog free with this on.

waldowales

I like the looks of the goggles in the OP. My problem isn't with fogging, but rather with cold air making my eyes run and hurt. I think I'll try a pair of the goggles.