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Winter Cycling Don't let snow and ice discourage you this winter. The key element to year-round cycling is proper attire! Check out this winter cycling forum to chat with other ice bike fanatics.

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Old 11-09-10, 04:13 PM   #1
supremeone77
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duofold a good choice for thermals?

last year I was wear duofold sportsman thermals, not sure if they were expedition weight or midweight. But they were 100% fleece or polypropylene fleece maybe idk. Anyways I somehow tossed them last year, which was stupid. But now I have to buy thermals again. Im not going to be biking, just walking to school and stuff. I live in buffalo and it can get down nearly to 0 degrees during winter time.

Okay so what I'm looking for is would to purchase new thermals. Possibly on ebay since they have a lot of good prices and some of the sellers do seem reputable with their feedback etc. And I don't want to spend much more than $20 to $30 for each item. I'm going to need thermal bottom base layer and thermal shirt layer.

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Would getting duofold sportsman be okay? Or should I look into Under Armor Coldgear Compression Shirt or something else? My guess is whatever I get it should be okay as long as the material is polypropylene, fleece or wool.

Also I know about the weights such as midweight and expedition weight, but where does military fit in? Is it better than expedition weight?
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Old 11-09-10, 08:50 PM   #2
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Duofold Fleece:

They are really warm. They will work OK on the top layer but are not flexible enough for the bottom layer for cycling. For walking around they are good. But you might get too hot in them when you go inside. If it's really cold and you don't have to stay inside for more than an hour at a time you might be OK. For walking around under jeans at 0 F they will be good.

I would suggest just getting the bottoms and using other more easy to remove layers on top. Start with a breathable short sleeve shirt on top. That way when you go inside if your legs are a little warm you can cool off as much as possible on top. Just wear a lightweight polar fleece jacket under your parka to add warmth when outside and to give you a light thing to wear on the top when inside if you get cold.

This simple setup works really well for walking around at school in cold temps. Fleece long johns under jeans. Wool socks and boots. Short sleeve lightweight breathable shirt. Long sleeve zip front fleece jacket. Main parka or coat. Gloves and hat as necessary.

Good luck at school.

Last edited by Hezz; 11-09-10 at 09:03 PM.
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Old 11-09-10, 08:56 PM   #3
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Duofold is fine, perfectly fine. Expedition weight is best for cold temperatures when you are not going to be very active - sitting on a deer stand, or walking to school are good examples. Mid-weight is better for active sports (jogging, power walking, hiking, etc) or when temperatures are in the 20's and 30's.

Base layers from Wintergreen are fine also, as are many others. Even cold weather base layers in Target and Walmart work pretty well.

Fleece (micro fleece) and wool are generally the materials of choice for winter warmth. I prefer wool but it usually costs more. Either work well though - as the material/weave needs to trap air. Polypropylene is best for active wear, when you are expecting to perspire (sweat) while working out. Polypro is the best wicking material - all things being equal. But for pure warmth, fleece and wool are really hard to beat. Keep in mind that these don't provide good wind protection so, you will need a windbreaker or softshell type jacket on top.

Under Armour is good for sports like football when you will not be exerting yourself for long periods of time. Its tighter weave doesn't provide good wicking properties, however this same tighter weave provides muscle compression and, protection from artificial turf burn. Good for football, soccer, etc., but not so good for aerobic activities like cycling and running.

I am not sure where the military fits in. They spec some properties on their garments but, I am not sure what it is.

Last edited by NealH; 11-09-10 at 09:00 PM.
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Old 11-09-10, 09:50 PM   #4
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Ah okay. I've seen some duofold that are 100% polypropylene, and some that are
100% cotton inside / 50% cotton, 40% Merino wool. I'm guessing the 2nd option is better even though it's only 40% wool. I like the idea of fleece though since the last time i wore wool it was really itchy on the inside. I'm sure most wool pants are designed better than the ones I had but still, I'm more partial to fleece. Btw I'm confused, is there a difference between micro fleece and polypropylene fleece? I'm hoping polypropylene fleece is good for keeping you warm.

This is what I'm looking at so far, first 2 choices are for tops, 3rd one is for bottoms. Please let me know what you think I want to order soon, by early morning or afternoon:
http://www.umidirect.com/_duofold+me...Source=FROOGLE
http://cgi.ebay.com/Duofold-Expediti...#ht_2797wt_906

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...ht_1017wt_1140

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Old 11-09-10, 11:10 PM   #5
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If the military weight stuff like they sell at Cabelas is what you are talking about it's probably too heavy for normal use when moving inside and outside. That stuff won't fit under most clothes. You will probably want one expedition weight bottom and one medium weight bottom. Some companies call their expedition weight stuff military weight so you will need to figure that out. I think the duofold military weight is the same as the expedition weight. Which is their heaviest stuff. If you are not going to be sweating the cotton/cotton-wool blend stuff is OK. I was a bit mixed up because Duofold makes a fleece long john also. Usually most fleece is made from polyester including the micro fleece. It is warmer and has some better characteristics for fleece than polypro. But like NealH said, polypro fleece is usually made into base layers because it wicks so well making it better for active winter sports.
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Old 11-10-10, 07:53 AM   #6
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okay what i'm wondering is, would the cotton/wool blend be similar in warmth to fleece or would that fall behind a bit? Also is polypropylene fleece just as warm as wool or microfleece? All i see from duofold is the cotton/wool blend and the polypropylene fleece, I'm guessing I go with the fleece over the cotton/wool.

I think last time i did have the expedition weight or the heavy weight duofold sportsman. It was very thick material, it didn't make it impossible to wear it under shirts, although under pants it was slightly more difficult, but no problem as long as the pants aren't super tight.

And if I am aiming for polypropylene fleece, I've seen some other interesting items that seem good. Not planning on getting them but curious if anyone would think those are better options than the duofold. I have my doubts though.

http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Military-Pol...item5add4ace5b like the closeup pic, looks like good material
http://cgi.ebay.com/new-US-Military-...item5196298f32 maybe too big
http://cgi.ebay.com/Polypropylene-Th...item6fc2cb12f4 this looks more form fitting

Last edited by supremeone77; 11-10-10 at 10:05 AM.
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Old 11-10-10, 12:03 PM   #7
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I'm in Buffalo, I bike commuted through the winter. Mostly I just used Jockey Performance long johns (caution: underwear model under link) I picked up at Kohls on clearance. They're super thin, and easy to wear under pants. They also worked for less "athletic" things like walking to the store, and waiting for the bus. I also have some old school waffle style long johns from some big box store that work fine for keeping warm, a little thick for cycling though.

I don't think temperatures in Buffalo are that extreme where you need to spend lots of money on, or stress out about base layers. I would invest in a good windproof jacket, and nice warm scarf/balaclava.

Last edited by buffalo_cody; 11-10-10 at 01:14 PM.
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Old 11-10-10, 01:46 PM   #8
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well i have a coat and stuff, but it feels nice sometimes to be able to be warm while in the house or outside. House will be warm but probably less so around nighttime and the morning etc. Mainly though I want to keep my legs warm for when it's really windy outside and I'm only wearing one layer (pants). Idk about wind breaker pants or anything, but last time i had thermals i was okay. And a lot of the gear i've seen for like wind breakers or w/e, always seem to be expensive.

Ya so going to order the duofold soon. Just gotta make sure I'm ordering the right size etc. And whether I should order from another store besides ebay. Easier to look at feedback etc on ebay than some random clothing store.

You're right about temperatures on buffalo not always are that extreme, but i want to be warm on the occasions when they are.
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Old 11-10-10, 05:52 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supremeone77 View Post
okay what i'm wondering is, would the cotton/wool blend be similar in warmth to fleece or would that fall behind a bit? Also is polypropylene fleece just as warm as wool or microfleece? All i see from duofold is the cotton/wool blend and the polypropylene fleece, I'm guessing I go with the fleece over the cotton/wool.

I think last time i did have the expedition weight or the heavy weight duofold sportsman. It was very thick material, it didn't make it impossible to wear it under shirts, although under pants it was slightly more difficult, but no problem as long as the pants aren't super tight.

And if I am aiming for polypropylene fleece, I've seen some other interesting items that seem good. Not planning on getting them but curious if anyone would think those are better options than the duofold. I have my doubts though.

http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Military-Pol...item5add4ace5b like the closeup pic, looks like good material
http://cgi.ebay.com/new-US-Military-...item5196298f32 maybe too big
http://cgi.ebay.com/Polypropylene-Th...item6fc2cb12f4 this looks more form fitting
Having used both the duofold polypro and the cotton/wool blend stuff. I'm going to judge the polypro as slightly warmer. But I believe that it was only because it was a heavier garment. For the same thickness and weave of material the cotton/wool is probably warmer as long as it is dry. All in all I prefer the polypro but your experience may be different. I think the polypro is a little more comfortable when you go inside and have a little more on your legs than you would like.
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Old 11-10-10, 08:48 PM   #10
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Try the Duofold Varitherm's They're made for higher activity. Umi has them.
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Old 11-11-10, 07:24 PM   #11
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Got a set of the wool blend long undies last year from Duluth Trading. Will be getting more this year, really love 'em! Huge improvement over cotton/ poly or all cotton and didn't pick up the stink of full synthetics. Washable wool FTW! The light weight/ base layer stuff is perfect for moderate activity and wearing under regular cloths.
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Old 11-12-10, 07:31 AM   #12
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Im starting to reconsider a bit the cotton/wool blend. What sucks though is it's only midweight, but than again I don't know how much better expedition weight is compared to midweight. As for duofold varitherms, most of the ones I've seen are single layer, and made out of polyester. Is polyester supposed to be a real warm material, similar to wool or fleece? Maybe I should reconsider those. I've also seen some polarmax stuff which is also made out of polyester (maybe micro).

Btw those wool undies from Duluth Trading, are around $40, so can't get those.

Anyways, the one bad thing about trying to get the duofold is, can't find the expedition weight on ebay as easily right now. Well for now I'll say I'm gonna consider the duofold varitherms and the cotton/wool blends. The cotton/wool blend seems more appealing right now, even though it's only mid weight.

(btw as you might be able to tell right now, im not the most decisive person when there's so many options, but im pretty sure i'll be ordering something today or tomorrow because it's already on its way to getting colder and colder here. Thanks for the responses thus far)
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Old 11-12-10, 11:41 AM   #13
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Polyester does not wick quite as well as polypro but it is slightly warmer. Nearly all fleece is made from polyester. If you are just walking around, polyester fleece long johns will be fine and are very warm. Try Sportsman's Warehouse or Cabelas. They will have better prices on this stuff. You can also go to the local sports liquidator if you have one.
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Old 11-12-10, 12:04 PM   #14
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just remembered about sierratradingpost. Real awesome site with good prices and a lot of informative reviews. I like the Kenyon Long Underwear Top - Expedition Weight. Made with 100% polypropylene.

at cabelas i liked:
Cabela's MTP Polartec® Heavy-Weight Crew Top – Regular
Cabela's Polar Expedition-Weight Polartec® Power Dry Crew - Regular
X-Tek Heavyweight Base Layer Crew

i zoomed in on the polartec one and the texture reminded me a lot of the duofolds i had last year. And they say they are fleeced on the inside and outside to help trap in heat.

Last edited by supremeone77; 11-12-10 at 12:58 PM.
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Old 11-13-10, 12:05 PM   #15
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okay here's a more organized list of what i like. If any of you could help me eliminate some choices or favor any one of them, please do. Here they are:

Ones i'm gravitating towards the most:
duofold expedition weight 100% polypropylene - it's fleece and supposed to be similar in warmth to wool (maybe not as warm as polyester?), and also fleece is comfortable
Kenyon Long Underwear Top - Expedition Weight - it's 9oz for top and 7oz for bottom, seems like it'd definitely be warm, also polypro
Cabela's MTP Polartec® Heavy-Weight Crew Top – or polar expedition weight power dry crew


Backup choices
duofold varitherms - gotta look into them more, seemed like they were made of polyester and for some reason i always think thats too thin
duofold cotton/wool blend - someone said the cotton wool might be warmer if same weight as polypro, so not a bad choice but probably not as warm than

Ones that seem good but don't trust the brand as much or how the quality and weight
X-Tek Heavyweight Base Layer Crew
Terramar Sportsman Base Layer Top - Wool Blend, Long Sleeve (For Men) - just something i've seen as well
Medalist® Midweight Stretch Microfleece Crew
Cabela's Polartec® Classic 200 Crew – Regular
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Old 11-15-10, 12:50 PM   #16
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im really liking the thought of getting one of these 3. Although now I'm thinking of just going to this one clothing store to see what kind of warm shirts or pants they have because seems like there's not much of a difference between a thermal base layer bottom and thermal pants.

Kenyon Long Underwear Top - Expedition Weight
Cabela's MTP Polartec® Heavy-Weight Crew Top – or polar expedition weight power dry crew
duofold varitherms

any opinions or help me eliminate a choice
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Old 11-15-10, 07:31 PM   #17
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I'm not going to bother with brands... Just look at fabrics, weight and fit. Then go find the clothing you want. Anyways...

Follow layering principles, the mid-layer is where your warmth comes from. Therefore, from the perspective of cycling, you should start with the thinnest layer of tight fitting poly-pro for the base-layer. The underwear layer's only purpose is to wick sweat off your skin outwards to the outer-layer.

Expedition weight is for sleeping or sitting around in a tent, sweat will not move quickly through a thick base-layer to the outer-layers.... this will chill you quickly if you try to exercise in it when the temperature is cold.
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Old 11-19-10, 11:06 AM   #18
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damn I was going to order the Cabelas Polar-Expedition-Weight Polartec Power Dry Crew and Drawers yesterday but forgot and now it's sold out. What bad luck. Well now I'm thinking about looking at the duofold stuff. Anyone know any shirt that looks similar to this n texture?

http://www.cabelas.com/product/Cabel...0&Ntt=polartec
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Old 11-22-10, 10:27 PM   #19
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Depends on temperature. I have a range of base layers, including a medium-weight Duofold undershirt. I was tempted to use it today in -15C w/ windchill and blowing snow.
It's a balance not to overheat--not something you want to do on a day like today. I put a pair of light Kombi long-johns under my tights. That was a good decision.
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Old 11-22-10, 11:19 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quickster View Post
Try the Duofold Varitherm's They're made for higher activity. Umi has them.
This it? http://www.umidirect.com/_duofold+me...e-230d_18445/b

I bought a pair of C9 polyester thermal last year at Target, but went back to buy another recently and they only had cotton/polyester mix.
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