Sixty Fiver

Studded tyres do not offer any advantage in snow and a narrower tire might bit in a little deeper and find something more solid to bite into and if that is ice, then studs are a good thing to have.

In 6 inches of snow the riding is going to be evil, even if you ride a Pugsley.

Since the things are hard packed and plowed now I'll break out my Trek hybrid that now has a 35 rear and a 45 front... did dome testing last night and really liked the speed, traction, and handling of this set up.

Will keep testing tyres too.

tjspiel

I don't want to make it sound as if the difference is night and day because it isn't.

The Marathon Winter is a really nice tire and rolls pretty good considering, but what I really want out of winter tire is one that gives me some confidence on the sloppy stuff. The 106 does a better job at that, - at least for me. But your experience last night isn't far off from mine. I have yet to try anything that works well in the conditions we had last night and this morning.

And even though I like the 106's better, I got the 240s because the 106s weren't as good as I had hoped. Now that you've tried the 294s I can save the money I would have spent on a set of those.

AEO

I was riding a paved bike trail, and I was sure happy to have my M&G for that. some sections were iced and it was hidden under fresh snow.
nothing like going over a bumpy section when you're suddenly subjected to a 2 wheel drift.

wolfchild

I live close to erindale park which is all dirt paths and there is even some singletrack there, I just can't wait for a big dump of snow.. another place I ride is etobicoke creek trails it's all dirt and in winter there can be a lot of snow and ice , perfect places for testing out various types of tires.

wolfchild

I know what you mean , I've wondered about the same thing. Other then the nokians or schwalbes, I also used to ride singletrack trails with WTB Timberwolf tires ( no studs )in a 26x2.5 and those were very good for snow biking.

PaulRivers

Boring Update

Took the 294's out again last night with my dad. This time on mostly-plowed bike paths in the suburbs. Very similar results. Worked fine on the plowed stuff, though there was still some "floaty" feeling on the snow patches where I think the Schwalbe's would have been more "grippy". Still couldn't ride through an unplowed off-path section - snow was to deep. There was a bridge that they hadn't plowed out. First time I tried to make it through I got stuck halfway. On the way back I hit it fast an made it all the way through because I had a lot of momentum going into it. But from my experience the day before, I bet the Schwalbe's would have done the same - gotten stuck without enough momentum, made it through with it. I think the 294's are a cushier ride than the schwalbe's, and I suspect that they're more "easy riding" on the partially-plowed stuff than the schwalbe's are. I suspect I would have needed more attention with the Schwalbe's to keep upright and it would have been a less relaxing ride.

However, one thing I noticed for sure is that while I'm usually out in front of my dad on the Schwalbe's, with me always being slightly faster and willing to ride slightly longer than him, with the 294's the situation was reversed. I was always lagging behind him now! I was the one wanting to stop and take a break. I was getting exhausted by the ride, while he could have biked farther. To be fair, I was riding the 294's on a different bike than I had the Schwalbe's on (full suspension mountain bike - but with the rear suspension locked out). And the night before I had spent over 2 hours biking in the snow. Still...I definitely think the 294's were slower and more work.

Thinking about getting the 294's to try them...problem is, my regular winter bike is 700c. My full suspension mountain bike is 26". Seems like it would make the most sense to put them on my mountain bike, as the full suspension seemed like it could be helpful in the snow. Plus I'd rather not change tires on my regular mountain bike, where the Schwalbe's are the best tire for 90% of my winter riding. Thing is, I was thinking of selling the 26" mountain bike and getting a 29er next year. Was actually thinking of getting a hard tail (rode a demo bike, actually seemed a little cushier than my full suspension on mountain bike trails). But now I'm wondering if I should get a full suspension 29er...that suspension did help a bit for winter riding.

Well, if someone lives in Minnesota and has a pair of 26" Nokian 294's, I'd be more than happy to write back with a comparison. Otherwise, who knows. Maybe I'll put it off until next year...

Sixty Fiver

Size does have some significant effect as larger diameter tyres roll over things better than smaller tyres... running that rather massive 700:45 on my Trek and a 38 in the rear let me blow through snow packed intersections far better than my 26 inch wheeled winter bike as it has way more float.

Swapped the 35 in the rear for an NOS Avocet Cross tyre that has an inverse tread which is really good at shedding snow and dirt and it digs down a little deeper than the 45 and traction was excellent.



Think the ideal set up would be to run a 29'r with studs and to run a narrower back tyre to increase contact pressure and a wider and more aggressive front to improve handling.

Or... we should all buy a Pugsley.



Nice thing about having a bike shop is that I can get all the bits I need at cost and build it up for less... and you could also set up a second wheel set with some 29'rs.

gerv 

You know you're in Minnesota when you head out for a studded tire review with your Dad.

[Edit: I wish I would have been able to do the same with my Dad ]

PaulRivers

Hmm...

You know, my full suspension mountain bike with the 294's is a 26" wheel. My winter bike with the Schwalbe's on it is a 700c wheel.

Wonder if it makes a difference...

I guess that adds weight to buying a 29er mountain bike - might be better in the snow, to...

Forget the mountain bike - I'm in with the Pugsley.

Bike shop or no bike shop, I think setting up a second wheelset with an Alfine hub would get expensive. :-)

PaulRivers

lol, yeah. Welcome to Minnesota! :-)

freediver

I was having a hard time deciding which bike to use a couple of years ago ( https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...ight=xtracycle ) and ended up putting some studded tires on my cyclocross bike for winter riding. I have 700x44 Continental Spike claws. I run a 240 in the front and a 120 in the back.

I've found them to be decent if it's cold and just icy, but no snow or slush. With the last snow storm we got I found that I couldn't even make it down the street with them and was re-thinking my decision of putting studs on the cross bike instead of my Xtracycle. So, I went out on a long ride yesterday just to see how they worked once most of the slush was cleared away. I found myself having a heck of a time negotiating the soft snow and slush on some of the crappier plowed streets. After that I decided that I had finally had enough of them and went out and sprung for some new tires for my Xtracycle since a local shop had them on sale ( Nokian Mount and Ground 160's).

I went for a similar ride today and found that, while I wasn't going to win any races, I had much better control over my bike. The more upright nature of the bike and wider bars made steering out of ruts much easier. The tires are considerably wider, and a bit slower, than on my cross bike, but the piece of mind I get from using them more than makes up for the difference.

The other nice feature of my Xtracycle that i hadn't taken into consideration before was that it has disk brakes instead of cantilevers. Not a huge issue if it's just cold and icy, but I was having a heck of a time in the slush. At one point so much crud had piled on my front brake that I couldn't stop the bike. Luckily, I was on a side street in my neighbor hood with no traffic.

Anyway, I'm sure there plenty of better riders than me out there who would be fine on skinny tires, but I've found a mountain bike to be much more stable for winter riding.


Jon

PaulRivers

Hi, I'm sorry, but I'm very confused by your post. You went from a 700x44 tire to a Mount and Ground 160 - isn't the 160 the less-wide tire?

And you said you preferred the Xtracycle, but then at the end you said you've found mountain bikes to be much more stable for winter riding, but you never mentioned a mountain bike, unless I've misread your post....?

freediver

Sorry for the confusion.

The 700x44's were on the cross bike. The Xtracycle is made from a Marin Novato donor bike (mountain bike) and uses 26x1.9 studded tires.

Jon

electrik

If you ask me and you didn't... i think you should re-categorize your evaluations based on type of snow and depth of it.

There has to be at least 3-4 major types of snow and the depths of each matter. The most impossible type being snow left on the somewhat busy roadway which is thus very thick, having all the air fluff worked out of it. This snow looks like muddy uncooked strudel dough and when it is on the verge of turning to ice(-14c or so) it is slicker than snot and very heavy - it cakes to your tires and freezes especially if the air/bicycle temperature is colder than the roadway.

I own both these tires you reviewed and they're excellent at what they're intended for - neither is really intended for 6" of snow.

PaulRivers

I don't disagree that there are definitely different depths and types of snow. The temperature you encounter it at is also important. As is how much previous snowfall there is.

All of this snow was newly fallen snow. It was all pretty fresh to - it had fallen that day (or it would have been plowed), and you didn't see any gray chunks and cruft in it. On the roads it had been compacted by cars driving over it, but there was so much snow cars hadn't even cleared any sort of paths through by driving over it, it was all just packed down somewhat depending on which road I was on. None of this was the "uncooked strudel dough" snow you're talking about - even having been driven over, it still looked pretty white and pristine. The temperature was between 25-30 degrees Fahrenheit.

As for "intended for 6" of snow", I must say I find that kind of a silly way to phrase it. For one thing I've never seen a label on a Nokian tire saying "not intended for 6" of snow". For another, there's an implication there that there's another tire which *is* intended for 6" of snow and per this thread, my experience, and comments in other threads it appears it would be more technically accurate to say "neither is *capable* of handling 6" of snow, and in fact no tires exists that is, even a Pugsley struggles in 6 inches of fresh powdery snow".

electrik

Yeah, but now you want to eat some apple strudel...? In my experience 6" of powdery or lake-effect is very do-able, but much work. I've used an even larger(2.5) mountain bike tire w/o studs, but with large knobs) to tackle it. Depending on how high your bottom-bracket is it makes some difference, that is one reason why a mtb is good. IMO 6" of wet snow is getting impossible, it packs in your spokes and your wheels end up weighing a ton. If it snows 6" and the snow is drifting pretty good, there is a chance it's doable(bunny hopping into drifts, +1)... If it snows 6" and the air is wet and still or the sun is out, forget it.

You can totally do 6" on a pugsley and i bet it would be a blast, sorry for the large picture.

fietsbob

It doesn't snow here as annually as the heartland, But i haul out my MTB when it does.
1.9" Nokian Mount and Ground W have less studs , none down the center ,
so for black Ice some Snow and bare pavement combinations they seem OK.
though slow going .. It's sketchier trying to walk in those conditions.
I have them mounted on All Weather Sports Snow Cat rims .. that are 45mm wide.

Haven't run them a really low pressures , for that the manufacturer recommends
using Sew Up Glue to glue 1 bead to the rim,
so tire will not creep around and damage the inner tube stem.
at 20 psi/2bar in some Thorn resistant tubes It seems OK..
on those rims the tire is a rather D shaped cross section.
as the rim is about as wide as the tire.

CastIron

I've run through two sets of Extreme 294/296's over the years and new this year am running w240s. I also have w106 35c Nokians on my touring bike.

I must say, my experience differs.

The W106's are ok in a bit of snow, but really, I save 'em for spring to mitigate ice patches. The whole skinny tires cut down to pavement gambit doesn't work for me on bike or motorcycle.

The 26" models (as above) all run pretty close to the same for me. The Extremes are knobbier and deliver a bit more grip in the chudder. 30psi for heavy snow/ice and 55psi for mostly clear streets.

The snowfall you were referring to I've encountered before. It's just miserable for anything on wheels. Several inches of snow with an ice coating totally defeats the studs.

Really more tread when there's less grip is a pretty good practice for me.