Dakota82

I basically want to hear everyone's compare and contrast the kinds of performance you will get from studded tires and the Surly Pugsley. Are there things you can do with the Surly Pugsley that you can't do with studded tires?

From my personal experience, I have always rode a mountain bike without studded tires all year round with really no problems. I've bicycled over 2.5 miles in blizzard and stopped at the grocery store on my way home. Though, I am confident that studded tires would have helped made that adventure a little bit more comfortable.

However, whenever I have tried going through a bicycle path that has not been plowed on my mountain bike. I can't get very far. And, I doubt studded tires is gonna make really any difference. The snow is so deep that, it will stop me from going anywhere.

So, I think Surly Pugsley would let me get through the deep snow. Probably studded tires are good for making your winter roads on major roads more comfortable by giving you better grip and making it less likely for you to slip and fall. But, if you want to go through some deep snow, Fat tires in the only way to go.

Well, what are your thoughts and experience?

skijor

Sorry, no Pug experience. But when the snow is that deep, I smile ear-to-ear and reach for my skis or snowshoes. On skis I know I could cruise past anything on two wheels in the conditions you mentioned.

JAG410

I love my Pugsley. Now that I'm getting used to adjusting tire pressures and snow in general, there's really not a lot it can't do.

It can't ride on glare ice comfortably. It can't ride in wet snow over 6" deep. It can't ride in knee deep snow. It can't make waffles either.

A studded Larry tire would be unstoppable in most conditions. I just can't bring myself to drill into a $100 tire.

However, at $1500 vs $150 (pugs vs studs), I can't say if the Pugsley is 10 times better in dealing with snow and ice. But I guarantee its 10 times more fun.

crhilton

Get studs and write a letter to whoever maintains your trails indicating that if they were plowed you'd use them. Ask your other cycling friends to write in as well.

You can mention that many cities plow them and find they're used all year round. And all you need to plow them is a small pickup with a blade (that's what our parks and rec uses).

LesterOfPuppets

Chunked and rutted snow : advantage pugsley
Ice or uniformly packed snow : advantage studded tires
Fresh snow : Advantage Ummmm, I'd guess 32mm CX tires would be best. Wider tires just make you slower. Studs don't help much unless there's ice underneath the snow.
Deep Snow : I think snow weight has more to do with stopping forward movement than tire choice. Wet snow can be no go @ 4 inches. Champagne powder can sometimes be passable @ 8 inches.

digibud

In my opinion, the Pugsley would be a good solution. If you can ride all year long without studs already then clearly studded tires aren't a requirement for you, so the Pugsley will absolutely allow you to ride in more snowy conditions. I have one mtb bike with studded tires and a pugsley and I ride both but generally prefer the pugsley and ride the studs only when I have to go fast on ice or if there is nothing but ice. My pugs rides fine on a bit of ice here and there but I do have to be a bit more careful without studs. The pugs will ride in more conditions...handles ice OK....and all snow/ruts better than studded tires. I plan on getting studded 29 wheels made for my pugs and then I'll probably sell my other mtn bike.

silver_ghost

Apples and oranges, really.

I've been riding studded tires for years (and lusting after a Pug for almost as long) but I spent a blissfull, snowy afternoon on a borrowed Pugsley last week. The vast majority of my winter riding is commuting on streets in various states of glare ice and snow pack. For these conditions, studded tires are the only way to go. The Pugsley's wider footprint doesn't help a bit on ice, and on packed snow, I think I'd get bummed out by the rolling resistance of the fat tires (even compared to my 29x2.0" Nokians).

For snowy offroading and bootpacked trails though, the Pugsley is an absolute BLAST! I'd love to have one as a dedicated "fun bike" but there's probably only a couple of days a year (in my climate) when a Pug would be more practical (commute wise) than a bike with studded MTB tires.

In conclusion, get one of each!

GriddleCakes

Cheaper would be to do what digibud recommended: get a Pugs for snow, and a 29er wheelset with studded tires for ice. One bike, two wheelsets, all conditions. At least until it's so deep that you need skis.

silver_ghost

You know, I've thought about that option, but who really wants to bother swapping wheels before work in the morning? I've never met any conditions that could best my studded 29ers. With that much snow, cars would be stuck, work would be closed, and I'd really wish I had that Pug to play around on!

Dakota82

Speaking of Swapping tires; is it possible to put Pugsley tires on a Surley Big Dummy? I ask because, I think I saw a picture of a Big Dummy with Fat tires on it. I thought that would be impossible because the fat tires require a frame that can accommodate such large tires. Well, I suppose you could put Pugsley Forks on the Big Dummy but, what about the rear tire?

silver_ghost

Nah, the Big Dummy has average clearance (for a Surly, still probably 2.5-3.0"). I've seen a picture of a custom longbike built around Endomorphs, maybe that's what you're thinking of?

JAG410

While the novelty of a fat tire'd big dummy sounds intriguing, it sounds like way more work than it should be. I have a Pugsley and an Xtracycle, and combining them sounds like a nightmare. They both have their purposes, but I think the a combination would require a ton of effort, and you probably wouldn't be inspired to ride it very often.

Back on the subject of studded vs. Pugsley, here's a pic I took recently. That tread pattern of the thinner tracks looks like a studded tire. Unfortunately I rarely, if ever, see other cyclists around here, so I haven't been able to talk to other riders to see what tire they're using.

bmike

studs - lots of road, plowed bike path, etc. minimal ability to ride 'off road' on packed snow, snomo trails, etc.
pugsley - i wouldn't want to ride it on glare ice all day long - but for minimal icy patches it is fine. i've done some laps on a local outdoor hockey rink and was surprised out how grippy those tires can be @ 6psi. if there is any sort of crust or frost on the ice - all the better for gription. they certainly do not compare to riding wind blown clear ice on the nokians...

for a commute on plowed / sloppy roads it would be a toss up of distance vs. conditions / etc. and what i wanted the bike to do.

i have a ss / fg mtb with nokian extremes.
i have a pugs.

so far the ss / fg bike has been sitting in the garage.
on the one occasion it did go out due to icy trails (single track, bike path, etc.) - i was wishing for the pugs but thought the studs would be better when i suited up.

studs only help on frozen stuff - ice, ruts, etc.
fat tires will help in all sorts of mixed conditions - new snow, slop, rutted and post holed trail, etc.
the big tires add so much cush and confidence.

while i couldn't ride all day in this, it was possible:


this is more typical - going where my 2.4s and 2.2s, studded or not, cannot go: (riding to the right of the set ski tracks, and other single track in the woods, probably a 12" base in most places):


i debated the pugs for a year. finally got one this year.
there is a learning curve to tire pressure, etc.
and positioning your body to get the most traction on climbs and in fluff or slop...
but i've been pleasantly surprised and impressed thus far, even on bare trails.

it can't go everywhere. at some point, without a base, everything will stop aside from skis / snow shoes.

Teemu Kalvas

Pugsley is by far the most versatile winter bike, so whenever you're not quite sure what exactly you'll be riding on, it's the correct choice. If you KNOW you are going to be dealing mostly with bare ice or half an inch of loose snow tops, a studded bike is going to be faster. But even a couple of miles of carrying a bike on your shoulder will really bring your average speed down.

bmike

and with a second set of 29r wheels you could keep a set of studded tires ready to roll...
(not something i've spent the $$ on just yet...)

Joe1946

I took off my Pugsley's 26x4.0's and put on my 29r 2.35x29 schwalbe big apple tires that are mounted on 29r SnoCat rims since I used it on the road today. I have three sets using 26x4.0's , 26x3.0's and 29x2.35's.



Video I shot in Oct 2009 with the 29r setup:
26x3.0's on the rear:

bmike

I plan on maybe doing hookworms or another 26r tire this summer. I may end up selling or trading my Soma SS for another set of wheels the fit the Pugs...

LesterOfPuppets

I like the concept of the hookworms, but man those weigh a LOT!

rob!

Why not studded tires on a Pugsley?

Also, does the Pugsley fit the 26" fat tires AND 29" "regular" sized tires in the same frame? I'm guessing the outer diameter of both wheels would be similar.

electrik

You can stud your pugsley tires... there was another thread about that here.

bmike

Yep, you can stud pugsley tires. You just have to want to drill 200+ holes in 100$$ tires. And push around even more weight.

Joe1946

The 29r 2.35 Shwalbe Big Apple tires a a little taller than the Pugsley 26x4.0's or Kenda 26x3.0's.

Rob_E

Possibly what you saw was The Big Dumb Pug. It's really neither a Puglsey or a Big Dummy, but rather a custom frame made to be compatible with both Pugsley tires and Xtracycle attachments.

irwin7638

Anybody have any thoughts on the Salsa Mukluk? As I see it spec'd out, it is an aluminum version of the Pug. It might be a better choice to prevent corrosion and fight all the chemical sludge we deal with in the winter.

Marc

JAG410

Salsa greatly underestimated the demand of the Mukluk, and they are pretty hard to get if you didnt preorder one. The next batch should arrive after the snow melts. But besides that I think its a killer deal, if they were available when I was fat bike shopping, I might have a Mukluk instead of my Pugsley. Maybe. My Pugsley love is quite deep