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  1. #26
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    Any extreme causes problems. They separate people and cause the US and them problem. Plus they never solve any problem anyway. Animals are abused because of profits. Eating them is normal it is the way life is. But doing what we do now is not. But the same problems would happen with vegan things too if it got large.
    It costs more for organic stuff and vegan stuff costs even more. That keeps it from really competing with a normal way of life.
    You can convince yourself that not using leather will stop cows from getting slaughtered. But it is just a byproduct. Not using it will just mean something else is used in its place. Like plastic. That will never rot and uses oil to produce.
    Going for extremes are a choice but all you have to do is look in the past to see it has never worked it only causes problems.

  2. #27
    Senior Member SteelCommuter's Avatar
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    Um, anyone have anything on-topic to say? Highpants had a question, and was not raising it to enable people to pass judgment on his priorities.

    I forgot to mention that I recently bought my wife a pair of waterproof pants from Patagonia that make good cycling pants. They are called Storm pants, I think.

    Anyway, good luck!

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteelCommuter
    Um, anyone have anything on-topic to say? Highpants had a question, and was not raising it to enable people to pass judgment on his priorities.

    I forgot to mention that I recently bought my wife a pair of waterproof pants from Patagonia that make good cycling pants. They are called Storm pants, I think.

    Anyway, good luck!
    well since almost all cycling clothing is made from synthetic fibers it's nto really hard to find anything to wear.

  4. #29
    dangerous with tools halfbiked's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gonesh9
    As for smartwool, I don't think it's vegan. From what I understand, it's just a more technically advanced version of wool.
    Correct, sortof. Smartwool is wool & thus not vegan. But its not more technically advanced, its marketing is more technically advanced (Though they are great socks.)

    Has anyone considered neoprene for socks and/or gloves? Disadvantage: holds sweat in. Advantage: super warm & windproof. I think a thin neoprene sock worn over a thin synthetic liner sock would do a great job keeping feet warm for winter riding.

  5. #30
    Senior Member highpants's Avatar
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    wow, this has actually become really interesting, and i welcome the off-topic nature of this thread, because it's true, this is a complex issue, and most of the points made have been valid.

    and for the record, i wasn't offended by smurfy's remarks, because what s/he said is true - vegans, like cyclists, like anyone, can get mired down in dogma and sort of lose sight of a lot of the original motivations for that choice.

    i've always felt that way, and i've been vegan for seven years by my standards, but then i'm wearing leather shoes and a wool coat from the thrift store, and i've been known to make exceptions for milk chocolate or soy cheese with casein if i get it for free, and i'm fine with that. because a person has to think about economics, both global and personal, as well as waste, human rights, etc. these issues are all very complicated.

    i think i have something of a solution, and i can credit my wife with thinking up this one. we've been talking about this a lot, and we're both looking for shoes and boots right now, and so we've decided to look online at different companies that we've heard of or that come up when doing a google search for vegan footwear (seriously!). having done that, we'll see if they have a customer service number so we can call someone and ask about working conditions, about what the synthetics are made of, where they came from, etc. in the end i think we all need to weigh what the most important issue is going to be for us personally and make our decision based on that, but i think it pays to get all the info first.

    but it wouldn't kill any minneapolis vegans who ride in cold weather to speak up and help a brother out.

  6. #31
    RAGBRAI. Need I say more? Steele-Bike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by halfbiked
    Has anyone considered neoprene for socks and/or gloves?
    I use Nashbar brand neoprene gloves when riding in cool weather rain. They are great for those drizzly morning commutes in the fall/spring. Haven't tried any socks, though. I just bring an extra pair of socks with me to work. I used to have waterproof socks, but ripped a hole in them, thus rendering them not-so-waterproof.

  7. #32
    dangerous with tools halfbiked's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highpants
    but it wouldn't kill any minneapolis vegans who ride in cold weather to speak up and help a brother out.
    Well, keep in mind you're targeting a pretty small audience! I'd hang out at The Wedge or other co-ops & ask riders there what they're wearing.

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by steveknight
    and without those abused animals organic farmers would not have enough fertilizer to grow food.
    Can you expand a little on what you said there?

  9. #34
    Senior Member highpants's Avatar
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    i will - it's really not that difficult to garden/grow organic produce without using animal products. it maybe takes a little ingenuity, but then so do most things worth doing, like riding bikes.

  10. #35
    RAGBRAI. Need I say more? Steele-Bike's Avatar
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    OK, I am going to sum up this thread.

    Most of us are vegans/vegetarians and all of us are cyclists, and that is because it is something that we can do to make a difference with either the earth, animals or our health. It is something that is a viable alternative to the standard meat-eating, lazy lifestyle that surrounds us. But, when it comes to synthetic materials made from petroleum or wool off a sheeps back, there just isn't much of an alternative. I use fluorescent bulbs, because I am trying to save nuclear/coal-produced electricity, but if I could afford a wind turbine I would have one and be completely off the grid...but that's not an option right now. I buy organic/local produce whenever I can, but that also is not always an option.

    So, one can only do what one can do. You can't sweat over the small stuff. As supplies dwindle and the masses come to their senses, we will have more sustainable choices, but until then, burn your fuorescents and buy your oil made fleece (just not from Sweat-Mart).

  11. #36
    Senior Member highpants's Avatar
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    thanks, K.F. but i bet i could outfart you in a heartbeat. i suppose that's not really in keeping with the topic of this thread, but your name sort of begged the challenge.

  12. #37
    dangerous with tools halfbiked's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by King Flatulence
    Thems fartin' words! Actually, you just might, it all kind of depends on how my diet is that day. The kf moniker more applyed to a garlicy hummus, ground flax seed, mixed with some summit kind of a day I was haveing when I posted my first question.

    I'll put my festered meat in beer gas up against the two of you anytime. And I've lived with veggies before, so I know what I'm up against. Warning: people who think farts are funny get mad at me!

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