Bike Forums

Bike Forums (http://www.bikeforums.net/forum.php)
-   Winter Cycling (http://www.bikeforums.net/winter-cycling/)
-   -   Cold wet glove thread (http://www.bikeforums.net/winter-cycling/869829-cold-wet-glove-thread.html)

Carbonfiberboy 01-27-13 10:28 PM

Cold wet glove thread
 
This past weekend, my wife and I finally came up short in the glove department. We did a 4:40 tandem ride of 70 miles at a steady 37° in the pouring rain and wind. My stoker completely lost the use of her hands for the last hour or so of the ride. This was beyond all our glove choices which worked before and which we had brought with us:

PI Lobster gloves - this was surprising. First time they've failed us.
Gore Power Windstopper w/poly liners
PI Elite Softshell
Performance Kenda

They all became completely saturated and then got cold. My analysis is that once any glove or mitten becomes completely saturated, heat loss is conductive and water is a very good conductor. The outside of the glove loses heat from the cold water pouring onto it. The temperature of the surface water is further reduced by evaporative cooling (windchill). The only heat source is the hand, a very poor heat source under severe conditions when the whole body is taxed with keeping core temperatures up.

By this analysis, the best glove will be the one with the thickest insulation which does not compress when wet. To think of this situation, imagine that you poured your gloves full of ice water, shoved your hands into them, and then immersed them in ice water for 4 hours.

I've been through the glove threads on here and have seen some gloves recommended, but don't want to just start buying gloves. I have gloves. Gloves I found interesting:

Glacier Glove ICE BAY Fishing Glove
IceArmor Edge Gloves
Gore Bike Wear Men's Fusion GTX Gore-Tex Gloves
Giro 100 Proof Winter Gloves
Craft Thermal Split Finger Glove
Craft Men's Bike Siberian Split Finger Glove
Craft Siberian Glove
P.R.O. Softshell WxB 3x1 Glove

Anyone using any of these gloves? Any comments? Gloves I haven't though of?

In replying to this thread, please remember that I am talking about long distance riding in constant rain just above freezing. This is a completely different situation than commuting, riding in cold dry conditions, or riding in showery conditions. This is because of the continuous heat loss in a constant rain. Rain riding in over about 42° has not been a problem with our current gloves, nor has riding in graupel/snow/rain showers down to 35°. It's just continuous very cold rain that has us stumped.

Bar mitts are not an option. Yes, we are crazy.

erig007 01-28-13 12:25 AM

Actually, long lasting cold rain is pretty similar to a ride in very cold weather or at least can be in terms of solution.
You have to prevent water from coming in and sweat from coming out (contaminating the insulation of your gloves)
With your hands getting soaked and cold you have just discovered what the false waterproof claims are.
The only true waterproof gloves are made of rubber, PVC, latex etc.. the other are just water resistant/repellent so forget about PI, Gore, craft and other known cycling brands when you have to deals with long lasting cold rain and go for something like some household cleaning gloves for instance.
Your current gloves will fit the bill, just sandwiched them between 2 true waterproof membranes
some nitrile gloves under your current gloves and some motorcycle rubber gloves over your current gloves like those for instance:
http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com...in-Gloves.aspx

Clarabelle 01-28-13 12:31 AM

Have you tried wool gloves? Wool is suppose to retain heat when wet.

erig007 01-28-13 12:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clarabelle (Post 15206709)
Have you tried wool gloves? Wool is suppose to retain heat when wet.

The "sweat" from the body not the water from the rain and wool lose some insulation when wet.
Here is a review made by some professional testers, the result: better to use a fast drying garment under rain rather than wool
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-..._clothing.html

Carbonfiberboy 01-28-13 01:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by erig007 (Post 15206700)
Actually, long lasting cold rain is pretty similar to a ride in very cold weather or at least can be in terms of solution.
You have to prevent water from coming in and sweat from coming out (contaminating the insulation of your gloves)
With your hands getting soaked and cold you have just discovered what the false waterproof claims are.
The only true waterproof gloves are made of rubber, PVC, latex etc.. the other are just water resistant/repellent so forget about PI, Gore, craft and other known cycling brands when you have to deals with long lasting cold rain and go for something like some household cleaning gloves for instance.
Your current gloves will fit the bill, just sandwiched them between 2 true waterproof membranes
some nitrile gloves under your current gloves and some motorcycle rubber gloves over your current gloves like those for instance:
http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com...in-Gloves.aspx

No, it isn't at all. That's why I posted this. I've been perfectly comfortable in below freezing conditions down to -60F because those conditions are always dry.

No, water always gets in. There are no waterproof gloves. If it doesn't get in around the wrist, it just runs down the arm. I've seen people dump water out of perfectly waterproof gloves. The nitrile next to the skin doesn't help once gloves get wet. Nitrile is an OK heat conductor. Wet inside and out, heat moves across it just fine. That's been my experience, anyway. Maybe if one taped the outers to one's wrists with waterproof tape, but that's not practical. Gloves come off and on. IME trying to insure dry insulation never works. All one has to do is take one's hand out of a glove in the rain and put it back in the glove and the insulation is wet.

On my feet, I can keep water out with drysuit leg seals around my ankles and waterproof boots. Water can't run down my legs into my boots. What works on my torso is insulating material that doesn't absorb water. Everything is soaking wet, but stays warm enough. But hands are a different situation. Long distance riding involves a lot of different things, tire changing, mechanicals, eating, drinking, peeing in the bushes, all sorts of things that one doesn't do with one's feet. One can't have 3/8" of insulation on one's hands, but there must be some non-water absorbing insulation that works. I've thought of wetsuit gloves, but doubt they'd work.

erig007 01-28-13 01:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy (Post 15206751)
No, it isn't at all. That's why I posted this. I've been perfectly comfortable in below freezing conditions down to -60F because those conditions are always dry.

No, water always gets in. There are no waterproof gloves. If it doesn't get in around the wrist, it just runs down the arm. I've seen people dump water out of perfectly waterproof gloves. The nitrile next to the skin doesn't help once gloves get wet. Nitrile is an OK heat conductor. Wet inside and out, heat moves across it just fine. That's been my experience, anyway. Maybe if one taped the outers to one's wrists with waterproof tape, but that's not practical. Gloves come off and on. IME trying to insure dry insulation never works. All one has to do is take one's hand out of a glove in the rain and put it back in the glove and the insulation is wet.

On my feet, I can keep water out with drysuit leg seals around my ankles and waterproof boots. Water can't run down my legs into my boots. What works on my torso is insulating material that doesn't absorb water. Everything is soaking wet, but stays warm enough. But hands are a different situation. Long distance riding involves a lot of different things, tire changing, mechanicals, eating, drinking, peeing in the bushes, all sorts of things that one doesn't do with one's feet. One can't have 3/8" of insulation on one's hands, but there must be some non-water absorbing insulation that works. I've thought of wetsuit gloves, but doubt they'd work.

Strange water doesn't get in for me, must be related to the jacket and the tightening system on the gloves cuff and the fact that when riding the wind push water on the arm rearward or downward rather than toward the gloves as long as i ride. Anyway no need to look for waterproof tape, it exists something called velcro. If you tighten the cuff of the rubber gloves directly on your arm and put the sleeve of your jacket above no water will gets in even if the water run along your arm

You shouldn't need to remove your hands from your gloves at 37F with my thicker leather gloves in order to handle 0F i can open and take something in the bag, handle my keys and do most of the things not fast though so at 37F with a thinner gloves it should be easier to handle things

wolfchild 01-28-13 03:56 AM

In my experience two layers work better then one. I use fleece or wool gloves with some mitts over them. I found out that as long as I am wearing mitts over my gloves ,my hands stay a lot warmer for much longer , even when wet. Mitts is the way to go.

Stealthammer 01-28-13 06:34 AM

For long rides in cold and wet conditions I use a thin polypropylene glove liner with a medium-thickness Merino wool underglove under a pair of Pearl Izumi AmFib gloves that I then spray with a water repellent like Tectron DWR before each day's ride. The polypropylene liner wicks away any moisture that gets in and the wool underglove retains the heat even when moist, and even though the AmFib gloves are quite good at repelling water, they are not completely water proof of course, so I apply the Tectron each time as a final step and this seems to work quite well for me. I've used this same solution for years and I am very satified that short of coating my gloves Plasti-Dip, I can do no better.

erig007 01-28-13 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stealthammer (Post 15207017)
For long rides in cold and wet conditions I use a thin polypropylene glove liner with a medium-thickness Merino wool underglove under a pair of Pearl Izumi AmFib gloves that I then spray with a water repellent like Tectron DWR before each day's ride. The polypropylene liner wicks away any moisture that gets in and the wool underglove retains the heat even when moist, and even though the AmFib gloves are quite good at repelling water, they are not completely water proof of course, so I apply the Tectron each time as a final step and this seems to work quite well for me. I've used this same solution for years and I am very satified that short of coating my gloves Plasti-Dip, I can do no better.

I'm glad that it works for you but he is talking about a 4h40 ride under constant rain no water repellent spray can hold on that long. And when rain finally go through the Amfib it brings cold with it not warm wet so the wool layer become rapidly saturated and then pretty much useless.

squegeeboo 01-28-13 09:52 AM

37 In the rain? I'm still confused why you were even on the bike. The 30's and rain is the one weather condition I absolutely hate. Give me 15 and snow any day. Showed up at work today with first degree frost bite on my legs, a layer of ice on my jacket and backpack, and a sad face from basically those same conditions. Was supposed to be snow until 10-11, instead the snow switched over about 2 miles into the ride, and I had no rain pants shell, fail on my part.

pdlamb 01-28-13 10:00 AM

No experience, so feel free to disregard my speculations. Trying to reason it out, though:

(1) My Pearl AmFibs are too warm for me over 25F -- they'll get saturated in sweat (and lose insulating properties shortly thereafter).

(2) I can adjust my jacket sleeve cuffs to cover the tops of gloves, so rain won't run down into the glove.

(3) Neoprene gloves, again IME, aren't sufficiently warm below 40F, but are waterproof.

So, putting these together, I'd suggest a layered system. Choose gloves that work around 45F. Get neoprene gloves about two sizes too big to go over the inner layer glove. Then take an extra pair of the inner gloves, so you can switch them out after 2-3 hours. Make sure your jacket sleeves go OVER the tops of the neoprene gloves.

Leebo 01-28-13 02:18 PM

I use those rubber coated work gloves with liners found in the big box stores. With a polypro liner they work well for me.

Carbonfiberboy 01-28-13 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pdlamb (Post 15207666)
No experience, so feel free to disregard my speculations. Trying to reason it out, though:

(1) My Pearl AmFibs are too warm for me over 25F -- they'll get saturated in sweat (and lose insulating properties shortly thereafter).

(2) I can adjust my jacket sleeve cuffs to cover the tops of gloves, so rain won't run down into the glove.

(3) Neoprene gloves, again IME, aren't sufficiently warm below 40F, but are waterproof.

So, putting these together, I'd suggest a layered system. Choose gloves that work around 45F. Get neoprene gloves about two sizes too big to go over the inner layer glove. Then take an extra pair of the inner gloves, so you can switch them out after 2-3 hours. Make sure your jacket sleeves go OVER the tops of the neoprene gloves.

Looking around at gloves and thinking about the problem some more . . .

It seems to me that hoping for dry insulation isn't the right thing. In randonneuring, hoping seldom works. One assumes that everything goes wrong and takes it from there. So then, wet insulation - how can it be improved on? It seems to me that what really went wrong for us was that the water penetrated our gloves too easily. Thus we were always warming new cold water. The downside of most rubber outer glove options is that our jacket and hopefully jersey sleeves must go over the glove. Since we are road riders and cruise at almost 20 mph, we wear tight fitting clothes. No way will a gauntlet or large cuff fit up inside our clothing. We won't have bare hands when doing this arranging, so it has to be easy. I might be able to find a pair of rubber work gloves with a stretch cuff, but the problem with those is that they lack a nose-wipe and cycling padding. 12 hours on a bike is a long time.

This line of thought leads me to Gore-Tex outers. At least they are waterproof and somewhat breathable. The idea being that water ingress will be much slower. If we get them large enough, we can wear poly liners in them for additional wet insulation. Since we are randonneuring, we won't be stopping for clothing adjustments very often, hopefully only every 40 miles or so. Thus we won't be changing our clothes or gloves, and need to have stuff that can just stay on. We bring a dry pair of gloves, but they are lighter gloves for dry or showery conditions. We may be on the bike in foul conditions for 12 hours, so we need stuff that we can wear steady-state.

I looked more closely at my OP glove possibilities and found them all flawed. Many of them had Primaloft insulation which would vanish when wet. Some had cuffs that were too large. Some weren't sufficiently waterproof. Some were unknown quantities with no reviews or tech information.

The only thing I've been able to find so far that satisfies all my criteria are XENON GORE-TEX® Gloves:
http://www.goreapparel.com/gore-bike...eartype-gloves

dramiscram 01-28-13 04:31 PM

when I have to ride in cold rain I put nitrile glove over thin wool gloves and waterproof mitts over it. But my longest ride was 30 kms (1h30 approx.)

North Coast Joe 01-28-13 04:41 PM

Just tossing this out there...I'm a paddler, as well, and there hasn't been anything more waterproof and warmer than my Nordic Blu gloves. I paddle all Winter long (as long as I can find open water, anyway). A lot of Alaskan crabbers wear them. They've a drysuit gasket at the wrist that will not allow water entry and a sewn in lining that keeps me toasty even though my hands get cold easily. A little pricey and have to be ordered from Scandanavia. Just a mention.

Bekologist 01-28-13 06:04 PM

In all my years riding serious mileage all year round in the NW, the glove combo I settled on was waxed leather over wool.

Get some leather gloves large enough to comfortably fit RAGGWOOL liners in. Not wimpy nouveau Smartwool or Patagucci liners, use those as a third layer if needed.

Heat them up, then Snoseal or Obenauf's the heck out of them. Put them in a warm place overnight, wipe off the excess.

This was the glove I'd choose for my winter tours on the Olympic Peninsula or into the Cascades, and those wet, 80 mile days in January, riding up from Seattle for some pie at the Snohomish Pie Company.

Carbonfiberboy 01-28-13 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by North Coast Joe (Post 15209341)
Just tossing this out there...I'm a paddler, as well, and there hasn't been anything more waterproof and warmer than my Nordic Blu gloves. I paddle all Winter long (as long as I can find open water, anyway). A lot of Alaskan crabbers wear them. They've a drysuit gasket at the wrist that will not allow water entry and a sewn in lining that keeps me toasty even though my hands get cold easily. A little pricey and have to be ordered from Scandanavia. Just a mention.

Unfortunately, Nordic Blue gloves are no longer made. Looks like it's possible to make your own by gluing drysuit wrist seals to rubber fishing gloves.

North Coast Joe 01-28-13 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy (Post 15209622)
Unfortunately, Nordic Blue gloves are no longer made. Looks like it's possible to make your own by gluing drysuit wrist seals to rubber fishing gloves.

Really! Bummer!! Mine are probably 10+ years old, have been re-gasketed twice, and look like they'd be good for another 10 years. I'm sorrry to get that news...another terrific product disappears.

Carbonfiberboy 01-28-13 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bekologist (Post 15209597)
In all my years riding serious mileage all year round in the NW, the glove combo I settled on was waxed leather over wool.

Get some leather gloves large enough to comfortably fit RAGGWOOL liners in. Not wimpy nouveau Smartwool or Patagucci liners, use those as a third layer if needed.

Heat them up, then Snoseal or Obenauf's the heck out of them. Put them in a warm place overnight, wipe off the excess.

This was the glove I'd choose for my winter tours on the Olympic Peninsula or into the Cascades, and those wet, 80 mile days in January, riding up from Seattle for some pie at the Snohomish Pie Company.

Their pie is still good. Yours is another option I'm considering. Step 1: buy Ragg gloves for each of us. Step 2: find plain leather gloves they fit into. Another stoker who finished this ride did OK with short finger cycling gloves, chemical hand warmers stuck to their backs, and just the Ragg gloves over the top. Of course stokers don't get the full brunt of the wind and rain. Chemical hand warmers are pretty light.

CharlieFree 01-30-13 10:29 AM

I like the Endura Deluge gloves http://www.endurasport.com/Product.a...06&prod_id=242. Great for shorter trips.

But your point about water getting in via drips, taking them on and off, etc. is definitly valid, irrespective of the specific glove. I'm following your question with interest.

Carbonfiberboy 01-30-13 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CharlieFree (Post 15215895)
I like the Endura Deluge gloves http://www.endurasport.com/Product.a...06&prod_id=242. Great for shorter trips.

But your point about water getting in via drips, taking them on and off, etc. is definitly valid, irrespective of the specific glove. I'm following your question with interest.

I looked at these, but was put off by the reviews of the liner pulling out after hands were wet. You had any trouble with that?

cplager 01-30-13 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy (Post 15206450)
Bar mitts are not an option. Yes, we are crazy.

Can you expand on why? (Meaning why you don't like bar mitts; not why you are crazy :) )

bent-not-broken 01-30-13 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy (Post 15209622)
Unfortunately, Nordic Blue gloves are no longer made. Looks like it's possible to make your own by gluing drysuit wrist seals to rubber fishing gloves.

http://www.scubacenter.com/scubacent...NordicBlue.htm

Carbonfiberboy 01-30-13 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bent-not-broken (Post 15216654)

Note that the right side of the form says "discontinued."

Carbonfiberboy 01-30-13 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cplager (Post 15216641)
Can you expand on why? (Meaning why you don't like bar mitts; not why you are crazy :) )

I'm a road cyclist. I couldn't stand the wind resistance, wouldn't want them on there as soon as the rain stopped (it usually does stop), they don't work for some positions used with road bars, and they wouldn't work for stoker's cowhorn bars anyway. Fine for commuting and riding in Alaska or similar.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:50 PM.