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  1. #1
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    Best winter saddle

    Taking a poll to determine which seat to purchase for cold temps. My current Serfas gel saddle gets rock hard. What do you recommend?

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    Anything without gel? I'm guessing it's possible to get away with squishier padding just because the cold will make it firmer.
    I'm wondering how my SMP will feel, as it's very ventilated.

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    Senior Member rumrunn6's Avatar
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    and maybe slightly wider? since you'll be wearing more clothing
    cycling is like baseball ~ it doesn't take much to make it interesting

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    Senior Member bikemig's Avatar
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    I've been using a brooks b72 one one commuter and a team pro on another; so far so good.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rumrunn6 View Post
    and maybe slightly wider? since you'll be wearing more clothing
    Maybe the rear should be wider but the nose should be narrower because of the extra layers that increase shaffing in the inner legs

  6. #6
    7-speed doomsday prepper ThermionicScott's Avatar
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    The bike I use for winter riding sports the same B17 year-round.
    Quote Originally Posted by chandltp View Post
    There's no such thing as too far.. just lack of time
    RUSA #7498

  7. #7
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    ^ If you can wear the same saddle year-round without increasing shaffing it means that you live in a place where you don't need much layering in winter or your B17 nose is not wide enough part of the year
    Since the OP live in Alaska, we can assume that the OP will wear some thick layers during winter. So unless it is a noseless saddle, a year-round saddle doesn't apply well to the OP situation unless there is something that i don't know that could make it works well. Here is why:

    (comparison of saddle pressure)
    http://www.sq-lab.com/en/sqlaborator...ontact-en.html

    Pressure = Force / surface.
    When surface increase pressure decrease.
    Which means that to minimize inner legs pressure you have to maximize the surface where you sat.
    Maximizing the surface means that your nose will have to be as wide (and flat) as possible without generating shaffing at the inner legs area.
    During (alaskan) cold winter, the extra layers reduce the room for the saddle nose. So that it creates shaffing unless your nose is already narrow. In summer you will have removed your extra layers so that there will have extra room for a wider nose. Since saddles usually don't change shape, the extra room available will become unecessary extra pressure on your inner legs area that could generate health problems and/or discomfort during warmer days.

    To sum up, in cold weather areas summer saddles should have a wider nose than winter saddles to minimize inner legs pressure.
    Last edited by erig007; 11-21-13 at 04:30 PM.

  8. #8
    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
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    how about this one? http://www.universalcycles.com/shopp...&category=4954.

    I have old saddles they live in a plastic Bag, this one doesn't need the bag.





    I've got 2 Fizik Vitesse saddles I got thru Brompton, atop Thud-buster posts,
    which are probably not good to use sub zero..
    as the suspension elastomer may not like those temperatures .

    OR/WA NW Pacific coast rarely freezes ..
    Last edited by fietsbob; 11-25-13 at 01:44 PM.

  9. #9
    Tawp Dawg GriddleCakes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThermionicScott View Post
    The bike I use for winter riding sports the same B17 year-round.
    Ditto.

    Quote Originally Posted by erig007 View Post
    ^ If you can wear the same saddle year-round without increasing shaffing it means that you live in a place where you don't need much layering in winter or your B17 nose is not wide enough part of the year
    Since the OP live in Alaska, we can assume that the OP will wear some thick layers during winter. So unless it is a noseless saddle, a year-round saddle doesn't apply well to the OP situation unless there is something that i don't know that could make it works well.
    I've been riding on a B-17 year round for two years now, and it's worked wonderfully for me. The leather doesn't lose any spring in the cold, and I've ridden it in temps down to -30F, for up to an hour. As to layering, I personally never wear more than two layers down low, although I certainly can't vouch for other Alaskans; anyway, chafing has never come up, and nose width seems adequate for all seasons, as I've never really thought about it.

    FWIW, my wife has a gel Serfas saddle that she rides year round (thing is so squishy, it's softer than my couch), and she says she's never noticed it hardening in the cold, but she thinks that it's because her behind is so hot.
    Last edited by GriddleCakes; 11-24-13 at 01:38 AM.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by GriddleCakes View Post
    Ditto.



    I've been riding on a B-17 year round for two years now, and it's worked wonderfully for me. The leather doesn't lose any spring in the cold, and I've ridden it in temps down to -30F, for up to an hour. As to layering, I personally never wear more than two layers down low, although I certainly can't vouch for other Alaskans; anyway, chafing has never come up, and nose width seems adequate for all seasons, as I've never really thought about it.

    FWIW, my wife has a gel Serfas saddle that she rides year round (thing is so squishy, it's softer than my couch), and she says she's never noticed it hardening in the cold, but she thinks that it's because her behind is so hot.
    By layering it wasn't about the number of layers. A layer can be thin or thick, with very different levels of density, surface roughness, breathability etc..
    As a rule of thumb it would be probably better to look at the overall thickness of the winter layering system vs summer layering system.

    As i said before if you can use the same saddle all year-round it means that you are missing some pressure relieve ability during summer as pressure = force / surface.
    If you could find another brooks saddle for summer that is nearly identical to the one you've got with only a slightly wider nose as difference i bet you could gain some comfort during summer.

    As far as i'm concerned I have some medical saddles that don't have nose so that i can ride with them year-round without any problem.
    Last edited by erig007; 11-24-13 at 11:27 AM.

  11. #11
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    Fizik Aliante.

  12. #12
    pro in someone's theory prooftheory's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erig007 View Post
    As i said before if you can use the same saddle all year-round it means that you are missing some pressure relieve ability during summer as pressure = force / surface.
    This kind of sentence marks you as the type of rider who likes to go their own way, which is cool but most bike seats aren't designed to distribute pressure evenly across the entire surface of your rear because freedom of leg motion is a more important consideration even in the summer with the determining factor for width being the width of the sit bones.

    Sheldon Brown:
    The width of a saddle is quite crucial to the rider's comfort, and should be related to the space between the rider's sit bones. If the saddle is too narrow, the sit bones will hang over the sides, and the soft tissues will bear the load. If the saddle is too wide, it is likely to cause chafing of the inner thigh, especially in hot weather.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by prooftheory View Post
    This kind of sentence marks you as the type of rider who likes to go their own way, which is cool but most bike seats aren't designed to distribute pressure evenly across the entire surface of your rear because freedom of leg motion is a more important consideration even in the summer with the determining factor for width being the width of the sit bones.

    Sheldon Brown:
    This doesn't contradict what i've said. All of this works provided that there is no shafing. Read my post #7

    Maximizing the surface means that your nose will have to be as wide (and flat) as possible without generating shaffing at the inner legs area.
    Furthermore, Sheldon Brown is basing his explanation more on the rear part of the saddle when i'm dealing more with the nose of the saddle. We reunite in the middle though.

    http://www.sq-lab.com/en/sqlaborator...ontact-en.html
    Last edited by erig007; 11-24-13 at 12:41 PM.

  14. #14
    pro in someone's theory prooftheory's Avatar
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    Have it your way, dude.

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    Quote Originally Posted by prooftheory View Post
    Have it your way, dude.
    It's not my way it is the scientific from SQlab way (which i'm not part of) and simple physics pressure = force / surface
    surface max ==> pressure min for the same force applied

    + plenty of other variables that make a saddle comfy to a specific one.


    Anyway, we're arguing about peanuts since whatever the choice it remains that conventional saddles don't reach the 100% perineum pressure relief level.
    True different ways should be conventional saddles vs medical saddles vs unconventional bicycle designs like recumbents vs??

    Conventional saddle seems to remain below 100% pressure relief of the perineum

    cf: entlastung dammbereich/ pressure relief of the perineum
    Last edited by erig007; 11-24-13 at 02:05 PM.

  16. #16
    Cyclist storckm's Avatar
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    I read about a woman who was cycling across Antarctica, and she was using a leather saddle--plastic, apparently, would have shattered in the cold. I've always found my Brooks to work well in the winter (and summer).

  17. #17
    7-speed doomsday prepper ThermionicScott's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erig007 View Post
    ^ If you can wear the same saddle year-round without increasing shaffing it means that you live in a place where you don't need much layering in winter or your B17 nose is not wide enough part of the year...

    To sum up, in cold weather areas summer saddles should have a wider nose than winter saddles to minimize inner legs pressure.
    Quote Originally Posted by erig007 View Post
    This doesn't contradict what i've said. All of this works provided that there is no shafing. Read my post...
    WTF is "shaffing" or "shafing"? It's amusing how someone who keeps throwing out pseudo-scientific arguments for noseless saddles cannot spell or conjugate the word "chafe." But don't worry, there are plenty of other BFers who can't either.
    Quote Originally Posted by chandltp View Post
    There's no such thing as too far.. just lack of time
    RUSA #7498

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThermionicScott View Post
    WTF is "shaffing" or "shafing"? It's amusing how someone who keeps throwing out pseudo-scientific arguments for noseless saddles cannot spell or conjugate the word "chafe." But don't worry, there are plenty of other BFers who can't either.
    I'm french speaking by the way that explain something. If you want to write in french i don't mind.
    Attacking the author is a well known fallacy technique but it doesn't change the facts.

    Your argument : I can't write chaffing properly therefore what i say is false ==> fallacy

    By the way, i'm using a conventional saddle but on a medical standpoint from what i know noseless saddles are above and beyond conventional one unless you know something that i don't.
    Last edited by erig007; 11-24-13 at 02:52 PM.

  19. #19
    pro in someone's theory prooftheory's Avatar
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    Clearly the narrow noses of most bike saddles is a conspiracy to give cyclists numb nuts, thus enabling a devious plot for world domination.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by prooftheory View Post
    Clearly the narrow noses of most bike saddles is a conspiracy to give cyclists numb nuts, thus enabling a devious plot for world domination.
    No babies no more bike enthusiast

    Anyway, i brought my thought if you don't agree then don't.
    As far as i'm concerned i'm going on my narrow nose saddle this winter and will switch back to a wider nose one next spring.

  21. #21
    7-speed doomsday prepper ThermionicScott's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erig007 View Post
    I'm french speaking by the way that explain something. If you want to write in french i don't mind.
    Attacking the author is a well known fallacy technique but it doesn't change the facts.

    Your argument : I can't write chaffing properly therefore what i say is false ==> fallacy
    I said it amuses me. Your claim that different saddles are needed for winter and summer wouldn't stand even if you could spell the word.

    By the way, i'm using a conventional saddle but on a medical standpoint from what i know noseless saddles are above and beyond conventional one unless you know something that i don't.
    Above and beyond in terms of what... noselessness?
    Quote Originally Posted by chandltp View Post
    There's no such thing as too far.. just lack of time
    RUSA #7498

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThermionicScott View Post
    I said it amuses me. Your claim that different saddles are needed for winter and summer wouldn't stand even if you could spell the word.
    Then you're ignoring simple physics. Don't tell me there isn't any inner leg gap difference between those 2 pics:






    Quote Originally Posted by ThermionicScott View Post
    Above and beyond in terms of what... noselessness?
    I thought i said that already: pressure relief of the perineum.

  23. #23
    7-speed doomsday prepper ThermionicScott's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erig007 View Post
    Then you're ignoring simple physics. Don't tell me there isn't any inner leg gap difference between those 2 pics:
    The snowpants have thicker material, but a saddle that works with that much padding will work in the summer with less clothing. If you like swapping saddles twice a year, knock yourself out, but you haven't yet made a case that this is necessary for anyone.

    I thought i said that already: pressure relief of the perineum.
    The nose of a saddle should never be in contact with the perineum. Try again.
    Quote Originally Posted by chandltp View Post
    There's no such thing as too far.. just lack of time
    RUSA #7498

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThermionicScott View Post
    The snowpants have thicker material, but a saddle that works with that much padding will work in the summer with less clothing.
    Then you haven't read my previous posts. It wasn't about if you could use your saddle year-round only but about always having the maximum pressure relief since you can ride year-round with a saddle having a nose as thin as a knife but it won't mean max pressure relief.

    Quote Originally Posted by ThermionicScott View Post
    The nose of a saddle should never be in contact with the perineum. Try again.
    Hypothetically yes in reality though it isn't the case most of the time for conventional saddles.

    Different studies on the subject
    http://www.sq-lab.com/images/sqlab/l...udien-2008.pdf

    If i take a random one on the list and i check on pubmed...

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=16422818
    Only the nose knows: penile hemodynamic study of the perineum-saddle interface in men with erectile dysfunction utilizing bicycle saddles and seats with and without nose extensions.

    CONCLUSIONS:

    We have identified an objective test to assess if an individual bicycle rider, sitting on a certain shape of bicycle saddle or seat generates sufficient compressive forces at the perineal-saddle interface to obstruct cavernosal arterial inflow. This study also demonstrated that straddling bicycle saddles with nose extensions is associated with perineum-saddle interface compressive pressures that exceed systolic perfusion pressures, significantly diminishing penile hemodynamics.
    I typed nose + bicycle on pubmed and found an interesting study

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15179177
    Effect of bicycle saddle designs on the pressure to the perineum of the bicyclist.

    RESULTS:

    The traditional sport/racing saddle was associated with more than two times the pressure in the perineal region than the saddles without a protruding nose (P < 0.01). There were no significant differences in perineal pressure among the nontraditional saddles. Measures of load on the pedals and handlebars indicated no differences between the traditional saddle and those without protruding noses. This finding is contradictory to those studies suggesting a shift toward greater weight distribution on the handlebars and pedals when using a saddle without a nose.
    Last edited by erig007; 11-24-13 at 05:11 PM.

  25. #25
    pro in someone's theory prooftheory's Avatar
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    There is another thing that doesn't seem obvious to me because I have never experienced the problem. Is it really the case that having the thick snow pants over bibs actually creates significantly more chafing? I think this would be a reason to avoid them if possible.

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