79pmooney

Its actually really simple (making the decison). Let me shed some light with a riddle.

The frogs are sitting on a log. One decides to jump off. How many frogs on the log?
Three. Making a decision changes nothing until action is taken.

Ben

FBinNY 

Correction

Ans. the same unspecified number as before.

Riddles don't make sense with typos.

ericy

That's it exactly. For the most part we don't get much snow (we had an inch today, but it will be gone tomorrow), but you never know where you will hit a patch of black ice. And if you are riding when it is dark out, it is even harder to see before you are on it.

FBinNY 

I remember crewing on a schooner in a very light breeze where we were flying maximum sail area of fairly light sails just to make some way. The wind started picking up and we were debating whether to reduce sails, but hesitating because we were finally making some way. This is a typical kind of decision on big boats, so we really wanted to hold off and enjoy making good speed as long as possible.

Suddenly POP!!!, RIP!! and our genoa was a bunch or ribbons on a string. That's when Hans (the skipper/owner) gave us the best sailing advice ever --- "The time to reduce sails is when you FIRST think about it"

Same logic gos for winter/studded tires. If you think that maybe you should have them, then you should have them now.

HoraceLai

Good advice guys. I put the studded tires on the front the day after I made my post. I was glad I did because there were some sliding in the rear during the week. I will do the rear this weekend. On my bike it takes a while since it is an electric tandem bike.

These are the tires I have. I have no idea whether it is carbide or not. To me, they look like steel. I just went by the ratings when I bought them last year.
Kenda Klondike K-1014 ATB spike tyre offers at the cycling shop Rose Bikes UK

Buglady

They really don't, unfortunately. Found that one out the hard way. (Then I keep trying it anyway, every year, and ouch). There's just not enough thickness to the ice for the studs to bite.

Something that does help a bit (not very much) on black ice is the soft, sticky rubber compound of dedicated winter tires. Most studded tires have the softer rubber as well and that's where the improved grip comes from. But you still can't make any sudden changes to vector or acceleration on black ice, or you're down in a heartbeat.

Source: 8 winters commuting in Calgary, and falling a lot.

Dream Cyclery

IME, it does. However, it requires you to lower your tire pressure which I don't see that many people do.

What pressure are you running?

mulveyr 

Yep, same here--I find that my Gravdal studded tires work reasonably well on black/glare ice with low pressures. I run mine ( which are 700x38's ) at around 35-40 PSI under those conditions.

Buglady

I run my tires at pretty low pressure (35 psi for the Top Contact Winter, 30 for the 26" studded tires; both are per manufacturer's recommendations). I'm not a big person though and that probably makes a difference in the physical contact patch - they're just not going to spread out as much.

Mostly when I have fallen it has been when I had to stop at intersections. So there's the really polished glaze ice plus a change in acceleration. I do find the studs work really well on 90% of the ice I encounter, just not the extremely thin black ice - but I always warn people not to count on the studs to keep their grip on ice. (I talk to a lot of new riders in my job and I forgot where I was posting...!)

Dream Cyclery

I love 45nrth tires. I don't recommend Schwalbe and Nokians anymore because 45nrth are so much lighter and just as good or even better.

ThermionicScott 

According to the Kenda website, they are carbide: Klondike Skinny (Cross)

ericy

I put a pair of these on my bike over the weekend - the one thing that struck me was the increased rolling resistance (which you are going to find with any winter tire, I guess). One ride on the things and I am already eager for spring to get here so I can go back to my summer tires .

That and the noise as the studs go over the pavement - it sounds a bit like the noise when you are riding a trail with crushed stone. Not that big a deal I guess, but it is still noticeable.

Jim from Boston

Supposedly not with Marathon Winters, by reputation and my experience, though I've not ridden any other brand.

I personally don't particularly note the noise, once described as "electric rice crispies," but it was quite obvious as I rode along side of mtalinm, who had just a studded front tire only.

ThermionicScott 

No kidding. On my first ride with the 26"x2.1" Kenda Klondikes, I thought I was going to have a heart attack (and I'm not particularly old or out of shape.)

The noise is something, as well. I liken it to a continuous zipper, or popcorn popping, or bubble wrap. Since these are decent studs that aren't in danger of wearing out, I just get used to the noise and don't worry what bystanders think.

Leebo

Falling? What size tires and what pressure? Here in the Boston MA area , we get some black ice, lots of glaze and rutted frozen bike paths. Studs keep me upright on all the rides. Running nokian hakkapalitas at 35-45 psi, 700 x 35mm. On the severe winter commuter, running nokian mount and grounds at 30-40 psi, 26 x 1.95. Both with good results.

Buglady

Answered above. 1 set 700X37 Top Contact Winter (non studded) at 35 psi, on flat bar road bike. No falls, but I don't ride this bike unless the weather and the pavement are pretty clear. Foul weather bike is a rigid MTB, running 26 x 1.9 Schwalbe Snow Studs at 30 psi. Fell twice last winter, both times on black ice at intersections when coming to a stop. Have also ridden Schwalbe Ice Spiker Pro 26 x 2.2 on a longtail cargo bike and that was like triding a tank.

My point is that studded tires do help a great deal but they can still slip on black ice. So can studded car tires. There is no such thing as a tire that will in and of itself prevent all slips and falls. People who buy studded tires expecting to be able to ride the same way they do on summer tires and clear pavement are not going to get the results they expect. Similarly, people with experience riding in winter who have not yet felt the need for studs, but are thinking about black ice specifically, probably aren't going to get the amount of improvement in grip that they might expect.

Seriously, 8 years riding every day, frequently as low as -30C. I am quite sure of what my tires, and I, can and cannot do.

Leebo

Yes, they are not perfect all the time. What is the stud count on the snow studs? My mount & grounds come in at 160 per tire.

HoraceLai

Is it a bad idea to go below the recommended minimum pressure written on the tire? My Kenda Klondike is listed at 50 - 85 psi, but it seems like most of you guys run much lower pressure around 30-40 psi.

mulveyr 

Winter tires tend to have pretty sturdy sidewalls and casings, so check how much the sidewall scrunches up when you put your full weight on the bike. If it's not looking wrinkled and the tire is still on tight enough that it's not going to roll off, it's probably at a reasonable pressure.

Leebo

Looks like the Schwalbe snow stud has a minimal amount of studs. If you are slipping and falling with these, I would recommend something with a higher stud count. I think you will find most studded tire users do not have your issues. I can ride on smooth pond ice, no issues.

mulveyr 

While I don't agree with some of the previous posts that studs don't help with black or glare ice, it's true that it's more difficult; flat pond ice is ideal because there's sufficient depth for the studs to bite. Black ice ( which I'm defining as a layer that basically just fills in the texture of the road surface ) doesn't have enough depth for a good bite, and is more challenging.

Hypno Toad

Very true. Carbide studs will outlast the rubber on studded tires. You might lose a couple studs (you can replace them), but they really don't wear out. Stainless steel studs will wear down quickly on pavement.

I have a dedicated winter bike (well it does do double-duty on the single tracks around town - so when I'm done with single track riding I mount the studded tires). I make the change from my summer commuter to the winter beast as soon as there is ice or snow on the roads. All of my wrecks have happened from riding summer tires on snow/ice. I don't need that pain.