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Old 02-16-15, 12:37 PM   #1
CanadianBiker32
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Thermos Water Bottle in - 15C

Ok all need help on a better and warmer water bottle, been using the Camelback Insulated water bottles for cold winter rides, but even at -20C they still freeze, maybe not as long as a regular one but still

need something that could stay drinkable from for more hours in the cold

i was wondering something like this

Thermos Stainless Steel Water Bottle, 12-oz | Canadian Tire

by thermos, would that work better , i know its a non cycling product, but suggestions?

What type of container could i have exposed in cold for a long time and stay drinkable, as i been trying to get this right for a while and still not working, so suggestions before i spend more $ and not get the best product for the job
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Old 02-16-15, 01:17 PM   #2
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Stainless steel vacuum flask filled with hot liquid will stay unfrozen for a long time... On very cold days it's a lot better to bring something hot to drink such as: tea, coffee, hot chocolate or hot chicken soup...Drinking ice cold water or ice cold sports drink on a freezing cold day will only chill your body, a hot drink will warm you up and give you a little bit of a psychological boost. It's far more pleasant to drink something warm on a cold day.
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Old 02-16-15, 01:30 PM   #3
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Double wall glass Vacuum flask will keep things hotter because its got no/few air molecules to transport Heat..
But as it's well Known dropping them shatters the Flask ..

can you Pack the whole bottle in a Pannier full of More Insulation?
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Old 02-17-15, 06:04 AM   #4
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Stainless steel vacuum flask filled with hot liquid will stay unfrozen for a long time...
This. Also make sure you pre-heat the flask before use. Put boiling water in there and close the thermos while you make the actual hot drink you plan to carry. Pre-heating makes quite a difference in how long the liquid stays hot.

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Old 02-17-15, 08:47 AM   #5
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Thermos Stainless Steel Water Bottle, 12-oz | Canadian Tire

by thermos, would that work better , i know its a non cycling product, but suggestions?
In my experience the Thermos bottles are the best around, allow for one-hand operation, have an insulated cap and are decently made. The diameter is just slightly smaller than of the standard bike bottle, so you might want to consider a cage that can tolerate diameters that are slightly off, e.g. adjustable. Note, though, that a 500ml bottle will hold temperature longer than 350ml, so you may consider a larger version. I don't have many hour experience at the temperatures you mention, but after 2h at say -22C the drinks stay fairly warm.
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Old 02-17-15, 08:51 AM   #6
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In my experience the Thermos bottles are the best around, allow for one-hand operation, have an insulated cap and are decently made. The diameter is just slightly smaller than of the standard bike bottle, so you might want to consider a cage that can tolerate diameters that are slightly off, e.g. adjustable. Note, though, that a 500ml bottle will hold temperature longer than 350ml, so you may consider a larger version. I don't have many hour experience at the temperatures you mention, but after 2h at say -22C the drinks stay fairly warm.
I taped a foam beer cosy around mine so it fits the bottle cage perfectly.
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Old 02-20-15, 02:27 PM   #7
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I taped a foam beer cosy around mine so it fits the bottle cage perfectly.
I use Klean Kanteen insulated stainless steel bottle and it fits the cage perfectly without modification. Bought it from Amazon and the part I like the most is it holds almost three cups of coffee.
Mmmmmm coffee.
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Old 02-20-15, 02:53 PM   #8
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Cad Tire sells a bottle that works great in water bottle holders...the brand starts with the letter "C"...sorry that's all I remember. Costco also sold/sells? them in two-packs. I put a drink in there and ride for an hour in -15c...drink is a little cold at the end of an hour, but still good. I then top it up at a coffee/tea house for the ride home.
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Old 02-20-15, 08:53 PM   #9
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I have a simple half litre steel vacuum flask from Ikea that works well with my my bottle cage. Filled with hot tea It will hold it's temperature quite some time. As soon as some liquid is out, the temperature drops faster, so for longer rides I prefer two 500ml flasks to a 1 litre one. I have a 350ml flask as well, but I find that one too small for most days.

If you have a pannier, backpack, or frame bag to put the flask in, rather than a cage, then the temperature will hold longer.
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Old 02-21-15, 05:15 AM   #10
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This is the bottle I was referring too. Trust me, you will not be disappointed

Contigo® | The AUTOSEAL West Loop Travel Mug with Easy-Clean Lid ? Stainless Steel - BPA Free - Coffee & Tea Mug
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Old 02-21-15, 01:02 PM   #11
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You can increase insulation of any bottle by using bubble wrap, aluminum foil + duct tape and/or wool socks

here are some glass bottles
Glass Water Bottle Canada ~ Conscious Water | Conscious Water ~ Berkey Water Filter Canada
Glass may crack when liquids freeze though

here is some physics
http://astarmathsandphysics.com/o-le...uum-flask.html

I haven't had water freezing completely inside a bottle yet but i always put my bottles in a pannier though. I just use a standard olive oil glass bottle wrapped in bubble wrap. Must be my pannier.

Last edited by erig007; 02-21-15 at 02:34 PM.
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Old 02-21-15, 01:29 PM   #12
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Make a wrap with chemical hand warmers or put them on your bottle cage so they stay in contact with your bottle but don't interfere with removal.
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Old 02-21-15, 01:54 PM   #13
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There is no comparison between Thermos and Klean Kanteen, Contigo etc. People buy a product and it seems an improvement over what they had before. Without having a true comparison, they go ahead and advertise it to others. Bubble wraps, hand warmers??
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Old 02-21-15, 02:06 PM   #14
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There is no comparison between Thermos and Klean Kanteen, Contigo etc. People buy a product and it seems an improvement over what they had before. Without having a true comparison, they go ahead and advertise it to others. Bubble wraps, hand warmers??
The OP is looking for a solution not a comparison. I'm in Quebec the OP is in Canada too. I can ride in -30C for several hours (my longest ride in cold weather being around 12hr non stop) without having my water completely frozen. If my water don't freeze in my case there is no reason it will freeze for the OP if the OP use the same technique. So it is a possible solution.

If you're looking for comparisons during long rides i often put 3-4 bottles in my pannier. Same water coming from the same source at the same temperature. Water ends up in bottles at the same room temperature. My bubble wrap bottle beats my non-insulated kleen kanteen bottle hands down though there is no surprise here since this kleen kanteen bottle isn't insulated Knowing that i always start drinking from my non-insulated kleen kanteen bottle first.
My other kleen kanteen bottle that is insulated beat the one that isn't insulated. My bubble wrap bottle is roughly at the same level as my insulated kleen kanteen bottle. I don't even know whch one beats the other one between the 2 insulated bottles. Though my bubble wrap bottle hold twice as much water as my insulated kleen kanteen bottle which can be convenient sometimes.

Last edited by erig007; 02-21-15 at 02:47 PM.
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Old 02-22-15, 10:49 AM   #15
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If you're looking for comparisons during long rides i often put 3-4 bottles in my pannier. Same water coming from the same source at the same temperature. Water ends up in bottles at the same room temperature. My bubble wrap bottle beats my non-insulated kleen kanteen bottle hands down though there is no surprise here since this kleen kanteen bottle isn't insulated Knowing that i always start drinking from my non-insulated kleen kanteen bottle first.
My other kleen kanteen bottle that is insulated beat the one that isn't insulated. My bubble wrap bottle is roughly at the same level as my insulated kleen kanteen bottle. I don't even know whch one beats the other one between the 2 insulated bottles. Though my bubble wrap bottle hold twice as much water as my insulated kleen kanteen bottle which can be convenient sometimes.
Surface-to-volume matters. If you resign yourself to bottles that need to be operated with two hands, in bubble wrap in addition , you would be much better off with one big thermos, with a good insulated cap, than the plethora of small bottles.

If the OP has not spent the money yet, he should go with the optimal Thermos bottle, rather than get distracted and waste the money, in comparison, on the dilettante bottles from Klean Kanteen, Contigo, etc.
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Old 02-22-15, 11:37 AM   #16
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Vacuum insulation is much much better than air or foam. Glass vacuum chambers can be easily broken. There are many vacuum insulated stainless steel bottles out there. Over the last 31 years of winter riding I accumulated 10 or fifteen. I always need at least two bottles so some of mine are a matching pair. In temperatures over about 20F I can keep hot chocolate hot for maybe 45 minutes. Warm for about 1.5 hours. No freezing for a longtime. Don't know how long, I drink the bottles as I ride. A few hours anyway. I found most of mine by Googling "vacuum flask". There are many good choices out there.
As already mentioned, the ones too small for a standard bottle cage, get bottle cozys to fit perfectly. If you have two bottle cozy's one can put two cozys with one upside down on a bottle to cover it. Then a hand warmer in the top cozy works well too. I end up drinking
my bottles so over a couple of hours is something I have not measured.
If using panniers and carrying a jacket or some clothing, put a regular bottle in a zip lock storage bag to minimize spillage, and surround it with loose layers of clothing. This works extremely well in the cold and the heat. It works well in a backpack too. In a back pack put the bottle close to your back for heat from your body. This works for too cold alkaline batteries also, but they get cold fast when exposed to the cold again.
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Old 02-22-15, 12:00 PM   #17
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Surface-to-volume matters. If you resign yourself to bottles that need to be operated with two hands, in bubble wrap in addition , you would be much better off with one big thermos, with a good insulated cap, than the plethora of small bottles.

If the OP has not spent the money yet, he should go with the optimal Thermos bottle, rather than get distracted and waste the money, in comparison, on the dilettante bottles from Klean Kanteen, Contigo, etc.
Agree and not. Big thermos are not cheap. My bubble wrap thermos cost me pennies, it's nearly just recycled stuff. (empty olive oil bottle, bubble wrap from a received package, a grocery plastic bag, old socks. I had to invest into some duct tape and aluminum foil wow)
I also have a 1L stainless steel thermos that i bought at canadian tire, it is really heavy nearly 2lbs empty. 1/3 more than my bubble wrap solution for the same amount of liquids inside. I don't know who would want to carry this.
For the surface-to-volume thing i agree and not. The big no no with big bottles is that once you open it you've lost lots of warmth. And it takes more sips to empty it. With 2 small bottles one keep the warmth inside while you empty the other one.

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Old 02-22-15, 12:12 PM   #18
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Agree and not. My bubble wrap thermos cost me pennies, it's nearly just recycled stuff. (empty olive oil bottle, bubble wrap from my last package, a grocery plastic bag, old socks. I had to invest into some duct tape and aluminum foil wow)
There are many dedicated insulated bottle pouches around, well more convenient than flimsy bubble wrap - when I use something on a regular basis, particularly under adverse conditions, I do not consider monetary savings such as you mention to be actual savings. The speed for reaching, taking out and putting back becomes essential. I think I have 3 such pouches by now, differing in details.

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For the surface-to-volume thing i agree and not. The big no no with big bottles is that once you open it you've lost lots of warmth. With 2 small bottles one keep the warmth inside while you empty the other one.
You cannot beat physics.
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Old 02-22-15, 12:28 PM   #19
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As already mentioned, the ones too small for a standard bottle cage, get bottle cozys to fit perfectly. If you have two bottle cozy's one can put two cozys with one upside down on a bottle to cover it. Then a hand warmer in the top cozy works well too. I end up drinking
Didn't know about bottle cozys. Looks interesting. From google the one i see are knitted which may be good for insulation but not much against wind. It would requires a windproof outlayer if intended for going on a bottle cage.
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Old 02-22-15, 12:50 PM   #20
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Big thermos are not cheap.
I bought two stainless vacuum flasks 750ML each at Canadian Tire for around $20 dollars each many years ago. That's pretty cheap. They fit perfectly inside my water bottle cage and keep my tea hot for many hours.
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Old 02-22-15, 12:52 PM   #21
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There are many dedicated insulated bottle pouches around, well more convenient than flimsy bubble wrap - when I use something on a regular basis, particularly under adverse conditions, I do not consider monetary savings such as you mention to be actual savings. The speed for reaching, taking out and putting back becomes essential. I think I have 3 such pouches by now, differing in details.
My "flimsy" bubble wrap bottles as you call them need no extra care. Bubble wrap is protected with duct tape. It uses the same principle as bullet-proof vests (with less effectiveness). An outer layer that protect against puncture and spread impact (duct tape) and inner-layers that absorbs and spread impact further (bubble wrap...).




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I bought two stainless vacuum flasks 750ML each at Canadian Tire for around $20 dollars each many years ago. That's pretty cheap. They fit perfectly inside my water bottle cage and keep my tea hot for many hours.
That's 19$ more than mine (more or less)


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Vacuum insulation is much much better than air or foam. Glass vacuum chambers can be easily broken. There are many vacuum insulated stainless steel bottles out there.
But glass doesn't leach as much as stainless steel. I can taste the stainless steel in water after just a few hours (my water is filtered so any leach is very noticeable) In my glass bottles i can't as easily. After 1 day at room temperature i can taste some mold that inherently grows but no noticeable inorganic compound like in stainless steel bottles. That's the only reason why i prefer glass bottles over stainless steel bottles.

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Old 02-22-15, 01:33 PM   #22
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Didn't know about bottle cozys. Looks interesting. From google the one i see are knitted which may be good for insulation but not much against wind. It would requires a windproof outlayer if intended for going on a bottle cage.
The bottle cozy on the stainless bottles is just to fit it to the cage.

On a regular bottle it makes a difference. With an upside down cozy on the top putting a hand warmer in it can unfreeze a frozen nozzle. Of course a wind break will help. But it works without it. I have done it. The cozys I have came off a cheap regular bottle, they are neoprene. It looks identical to what a wet suit is made of. I have some neoprene socks too. They insulate my feet well but don't breath enough, that's a good thing for a bottle cozy. There are many different kinds of bottle cozy's.

The bottle on the seat tube has two cozy's one upside down.

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Old 02-22-15, 01:37 PM   #23
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But glass doesn't leach as much as stainless steel. I can taste the stainless steel in water after just a few hours (my water is filtered so any leach is very noticeable) In my glass bottles i can't as easily. After 1 day at room temperature i can taste some mold that inherently grows but no noticeable inorganic compound like with stainless steel bottles.
I never store my bottles with anything in them. After putting the bike away, and changing, I wash the bottles.
Who knows what's in my city water. Ewww. Better not think about it.
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Old 02-22-15, 03:19 PM   #24
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The bottle cozy on the stainless bottles is just to fit it to the cage.

On a regular bottle it makes a difference. With an upside down cozy on the top putting a hand warmer in it can unfreeze a frozen nozzle. Of course a wind break will help. But it works without it. I have done it. The cozys I have came off a cheap regular bottle, they are neoprene. It looks identical to what a wet suit is made of. I have some neoprene socks too. They insulate my feet well but don't breath enough, that's a good thing for a bottle cozy. There are many different kinds of bottle cozy's.

The bottle on the seat tube has two cozy's one upside down.

I could go for neoprene on my next olive oil bottle
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