thanks, but i was aiming for mid depth carbon... seems like name brand rims on pro+ go about 1500 (reynolds on wheelbuilder) and since an Al rim on a pro goes for 900 (your link) I figure 1200 should be able to get a 50ish mm carbon wheel. (seems to me that the cost diff for a Al rim and carbon should be about 250 with 50 worth of better spokes.