Thanks for the quick responses this has been killing me, it was holland cycles very cool video they have. So it is patented but i only build frames for myself not commercial sale so that doesnt matter too much. Anyone think something like this can be done without multi-thousand dollar equipment? Ive built a ton of steel frames and one or two titanium and aluminum ones and have all necessary jigs and welding equipment. Open to painstaking amounts of labor but never really messed with carbon before, perhaps it would be easier to attempt to buy from holland cycles or other supplier... If anyone has worked with both carbons and metals id be interested to here your opinion, cheers.