Originally Posted by
surgeonstone
Dear sweet Holy Mother of God, why must we even see this thread again . Mods, direct this poor lost soul to the many thousands of posts that have made this topic only slightly less common than the book of prayer by the same name. OP, learn first what OP means, then accept this post not as a personal rant against your ignorance or lack of familiarity on this all too common topic and take it instead as a gentle nudge to lean how to use the search function, spare all of us slightly old timers from having to see another reiteration of this nauseatingly familiar topic.
He did add wind trainers into the mix ... we haven't seen a question about them in a while. Gives the thread a sort of retro feel.