Originally Posted by
tandempower
I can sincerely tell you that it is not me choosing not to understand. When you say, "I've been told by several people," I wasn't even aware that the same point, or maybe what seems like the same point to you, has been repeated multiple times in different threads. Of course I understand if what you perceive in me as active resistance or ignorance deters you from wanting to clarify any more. All I can say is that I'm open to understanding if you want to clarify - but I won't promise to agree with a point I haven't even understood yet.
What is the point? To say the word, "objectification?" Either you want to make a point about it or you don't. There are, as you say, encyclopedias on the subject so I'm not going to get into a whole discussion about objectification in general. If there's something pertinent you want discussed here, I'm open to that. Otherwise, what's the point?
Femininity is a very broad and complex subject as well but to some extent what you're talking about is a trap. Making oneself vulnerable is sort of like focussing all your attention on your vein as the needle goes in to give you a shot. It can have an amplifying effect. That said, there are also ways of observing emotion and experience that allow you to neutralize the emotional compulsions toward certain actions. For example, you can observe anger or pride or lust, envy, etc. and by doing so you step out of those emotions and experience some release/relief from them. That can be therapeutic and/or behaviorally helpful, if you have a problem with expressing anger constructively or neutralizing ego/pride reactions, or controlling lust, etc.
Beware of aesthetic/stylistic criticisms. They are a subtle form of ad hoc response by people who typically either can't or don't want to comprehend/respond to the content of writing. I'm sorry my words and sentence structure are too expensive for your budget. If we converse more, I'm sure I will get a sense of your literary budget and work within that. I'm really not trying to win some kind of academic competition with writing. I do try to use as broad a vocabulary as possible because I believe words exist to be used but that doesn't me I'm trying to play a posturing game. I don't know if you can tell but I don't write articles for academic journals with the way I write.
I missed the point? Was the point not that relationships are unnecessary for happiness? If not, what was the point exactly and what does your white self and 'black is beautiful' have to do with it? Are you saying it only applies to women and not men, i.e. that the slogan can't be just as easily written, "a man needs a woman like a fish needs a bicycle?" I would also ask you if you think there's something special about race that makes it impossible for people to empathize across racialized lines but I've known enough pushers of 'difference' to guess you will probably attack me for daring to suggest that someone without a black body could comprehend any aspect of 'black experience.' I think that is wrong but you can't explain it to someone who derives a sense of power from admonishing people for thinking they can identify with experiences outside of the categories culturally imposed on them and others.
Relationships involve a certain amount of addiction. This colors your perception of them when you are in one. It took me a long time being out of one to gain perspective on the way I experienced and understood them while I was in one. Don't assume being single doesn't have countless rewards as well. I think you are defending the honor of being in a relationship the way an wine-lover defends the health benefits of red wine or the way pot smokers defend the medical benefits of marijuana. Reality is you can live healthy without wine, marijuana, and relationships and that each delivers pleasures that are addictive and bias the minds of their users in favor of the 'substance.' I'm not saying being in a relationship is necessarily as bad for you as using drugs or alcohol, just that they have similar effects on the users' evaluation of their goodness and necessity.
You just won't let this topic go, will you?
So now you speak for all women and all women are homogeneous? Are you saying that no women prefer to depersonalize politics and science for the sake of achieving a more objective, emotionally neutral stance? Are you saying that only men are capable of doing that or that only men would ever choose to? If so, why?
I see zero connection with the 'old sexist argument' you describe. Do you like to get super-drunk and get in a bar brawl and feel intense drunken love for people around you and then vomit on your way home? If not, you can understand why I prefer to avoid the emotional drama that comes with dating and relationships. I am quite happy to experience all the platonic love and other positive emotions that come with social interaction outside of dating and relationships. Maybe I'm too sensitive but more intensity is not going to make me happier and I've matured enough to realize that about myself by this point, thank you for your concern.
I respect you telling me if I offended you and explaining your position but I don't think it's necessary to use rude or offensive language. No need to stoke flame wars.
Amen; just please don't start singing the Will Pherrel song or I'll start feeling like a room without a roof.
This is a common misunderstanding about independence. I can't say that my viewpoint or thoughts are unique just because I developed them independently but I can say that in my own reasoning process, these are things I have come to think so in that sense I am thinking independently and not just mindlessly conforming to something I heard or read elsewhere.
Again you're speaking for all women as a homogeneous 'we.' I understand you're human and female. I HOPE you have an independent mind but how can I know for sure without knowing you personally? If your view is that attitude is everything, then why don't you just own it as an individual? If that's your view, expect respect for it at the level of an independent individual. You don't have to locate yourself within a collective to deserve respect.