Thread: Campy Nightmare
View Single Post
Old 02-06-15, 12:34 PM
  #19  
Campag4life
Voice of the Industry
 
Campag4life's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 12,572
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1188 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 8 Times in 8 Posts
Originally Posted by ColnagoC40
Answers to your questions:

The Colnago C60 was launced in August last year, they are all the same so far, mine is a 2015.

Pressfit BB86.5, Colnago uses a special arrangement here they call "ThreadFit 82.5" this allows the BB cups to be pressed into replaceable precision machined BB piece. Ernesto allows us to have no movement between frame and BB cups and allows us to replace the BB cups a gazillion times without any risk to wearing out or damaging the frame, without the use of Loctite.

2015 Campy Super Record, Ultra Torque with the ceramic bearings serial number 0196, so some of the early production.

"Hydro dynamic lubrication" means the concave shape of the bearing cone and the bearing cup, with balls held together by a race, distributes lubricant when the bearing turns so that there is a protecting film between ball, cone and cup always.

A sliding fit between bearing cup an frame BB retaining cup will wear the pressed in frame cup out in the area where the bearing outer cup moves, due to movement without the above described lubrication action.

Some of my opinions and it is OK if yours are different:

Loctite is only used in press fit joints where the press fit design tolerances were out of specification, badly machined, or the design was incorrect. Loctite is a band-aid for bad workmanship. Colnago seems to be well aware of this.

The new ceramic bearings do not take grease, Campy recommends a very light machine oil. Campy do however recommend grease between bearing cup and pressed in BB cup. This is not a press fit, it is a sliding fit, my design concern mentioned in my post above. The fit is designed allowing the bearings to move in the cups, due to the large tolerances between different frames.

I don't believe I have an accident in the waiting, but I sure know that I won't be doing around 10,000 miles a year for 15 years without any maintenance as experienced on my 2000 Record BB in my C40. This one will need a whole lot of maintenance including cup replacement in comparison.

With respect, this new design comes from a new generation of college Engineers, who do not have a lot of practical experience in the field, especially when it comes to sound automotive principles. One thing I give them credit for, is they did design for an assembly saving every gram possible, but reliability was not the first objective. They also allowed for a wide tolerance range on the BB, probably due to the new wave of Asian manufacturers.
You are wrong on almost every level including the initial premise of your thread. I have no idea what your background is, but if engineering, good luck. Mine is engineering btw.
Quite honestly, this will go over your head but Colnago's new BB on their C60 is a bit of a bad joke. Complexity for complexity sake, another needless interface to the BB and no value added. Pure marketing. Their BB is no more improved by having a threaded interface to a sleeve pushed inside their BB shell than the man on the moon. The interface to UT press in cups to BB86.5 is no different than a standard Trek BB86.5...only in the case with Colnago, one more interface to connect to the bike...a sleeve with two threaded cups. Needless. The ruse is improved co-axiality of bore centers which isn't a problem with standard BB86.5.

So good luck pressing in Campy cups directly into the threaded in place sleeve Colnago uses not using Locitite. Even money to creak. Yours may or may not based upon, your weight strength and riding frequency. The tolerance of both std BB86.5, the Colnago sleeve and Campy press in cups is very tight. The wear you speak of will accelerate without Loctite over time. Loctite prevents movement and wear...that is the point.
Loctite is no more a bandaid then putting carbon paste on a seatpost to mitigate slippage at the same clamp torque.
Loctite provides light bonding that negates cup movement. Only light bonding is required because lateral forces especially with BB86.5 with cups internal to the BB sleeve are low. Campy cups that are external to BB shell as in the case of BB/PF 30 are more problematic because of the load path.
Lastly, just to be clear, no Loctite is required between Colnago's sleeve and BB shell. This is because the threaded cups they spec capture the sleeve such that it will not move. Loctite however is needed between the sleeve ID and the Campy press in cup OD if you want a dead quiet bike over time.

As I stated before, the biggest problem with integrated BB's isn't the design as much as it is the interpretation of the design and the installation practices by those who don't understand them. It is clear that this is too much to ask of the lay public based upon your post and all the problems on the road. Those who understand integrated BB's don't have the same problem.

Last edited by Campag4life; 02-06-15 at 12:44 PM.
Campag4life is offline