Originally Posted by
davei1980
Just to weigh in on the waxing vs oiling debate - a lot of people use liquid wax because they say that the reason hot wax is melted is to get it in liquid form so it can reach all metal surfaces of the chain.
I think that's false, I think the real advantage is that it can reach those areas and, unlike anything liquid, can stay there for a long time, not attract dust and not ruin your clothes.
I just waxed my chain after a week of wet riding and it's DEAD silent now!!!
Yes, you have to melt the wax to get it into the chain. You can't do it any other way. You are stating the obvious. However, you can do
exactly the same thing by dissolving the wax in a solvent that evaporates which leaves the wax behind. It's a lot less work since you can apply the wax without having to take the chain off to do so.
Originally Posted by
noglider
You don't have nine bikes yet.
Exactly. Who has time to keep up with the maintenance schedule necessary to hot wax that many bikes? I have better things to do as do most people.
On the other hand, the constant removal of the oil from oil based lubricants is as bothersome as hot waxing.
Originally Posted by
carlos danger
is there actually any proof that wax actually lubricates anything??
From what I have heard it first dont stay put as oils and greases does.
I has zero high pressure resistance (like what happens inside the chain).
It has zero beneficial solid particles like teflon or molybden inside.
so whats all the fuzz about?
I don't think you understand what wax is nor how it works. It
is a lubricant just as oil (or even water) is. It prevents metal on metal friction by providing a film between the parts that can slide and shear. You also have the idea of how the oil works in the chain wrong. Oil doesn't "stay put". It flows so that it can backfill when it is forced out of the pin/plate interface. The problem is that there is nothing keeping the oil from flowing out of the chain altogether. That's why you have to constantly clean and wipe chains that have been lubricated with oil.
As for high pressure resistance, waxes are like grease. They are both high viscosity materials that resist flow under pressure...which is the definition of "viscosity". The wax that is at the pin/plate interface doesn't flow away from the interface when put under pressure as easily as oil does. It
can be displaced because it has
some flow characteristics but it isn't as mobile as oil. That's part of the problem with waxes, however. When it
does get displaced (which happens over time), it can't flow back into the space.
But, just to be clear, oil being able to flow back into the space isn't a perfect system either. When the oil flows back, it carries all the contaminants that it gathers along the way with it. This places highly abrasive materials at high friction/high pressure points exactly where you don't want, or need, them.
As for additives, the reasons those are added to oil is because of the need for some high viscosity materials to remain at the pin/plate interface. The Teflon and molybdenum (correct spelling but, to be honest, I always have to look it up) serve much the same purpose as the wax in hot wax and solvent wax-based lubricants. They resist flow and stay where they are needed.
Originally Posted by
DrIsotope
If wax isn't a lubricant, then that is it's strength. I wholly believe that wet lubes actively contribute to accelerating drivetrain wear-- after all, a wet drill bit cuts faster than a dry one.
I get 4,000+ miles out of 10 and 11 speed chains, and never have to degrease anything. With a waxed drivetrain, there is no maintenance other than refreshing the wax. The rest of the components are maintenance-free.
So I would say the fuzz is about wax being the cleanest and quietest chain treatment there is. It being super inexpensive is just a bonus.
Wax
is a lubricant...it's just not the best one. Oil is a lubricant but it's not the best one either. Neither is actually very good at doing the job for very different reasons.
Originally Posted by
DrIsotope
I don't know if the oil wears it out-- I don't really think it does-- but I do think that the oil stops the crud, grime, and bits of worn out chain from getting out of the chain. Now grit + oil does make a nice cutting slurry. When you try to wash an oiled chain, there's muck aplenty. A waxed chain remains nearly clean.
I do know that oiled chains in sealed drivelines last a very, very long time. So it's oil + the environment that combine to wear out chains... IME, anyway.
I would disagree with the mechanism but not the result. The oil doesn't stop the grim, grit and metal wear from getting out of the chain. That's the reason that oiled chains have such maintenance problems. The oil and associated gunk flow out of the chain to the surface. But there isn't a mechanism to keep the oil and associated gunk from flowing right back into the chain where it can go on merrily chewing the chain into more tiny bits of metal. The fact that the oil serves as a trap for particles coming from the environment to be retained on the chain results in a constant supply of grit for that grinding paste. That's why chains don't last much more than 3000 to 4000 miles...yes, I know there are people out there with chains that have gone to the sun and back but you are outliers on the furthest edge of the curve. But...
Wax has it's problems as well. If wax were a really good lubricant, it would provide longer service life on chains than oil. The fact that it doesn't...mileage is still about the same...says to me that there is something else going on with wax that causes wear at the same rate as oil. Yes, wax is clean. Yes, wax prevents grit from getting into the chain and causing damage. But the fact that wax is too viscous to backfill when it is pushed out of the pin/plate interface means that that interface will eventually be starved of lubrication and accelerate wear. There is more of a chance for metal-on-metal wear which decreases chain life.
Since neither lubrication system provides better results, the cleanliness of the wax system outweighs the oil system
in my opinion. Hot waxing, however, is as much of effort to maintain as oiling chains is even when you take into account the cleanliness. Putting the wax into a solution and applying it like an oil base lubricant frees you up from elaborate hot wax procedure as well as the elaborate cleaning of oil lubrication. You get the same results as both without any of the hassle of either.