MEversbergII

Hello (long time no see!),

I've been in the market for a folder as late, with the near-term goal of using it on an upcoming trip to get around the city much faster than I walk. I had done some searching around and asking around on other forums and online dealers and had settled on the Dahon Mariner. I'm told it's a good bike with good components and would be a great choice for a first folder (my original choices were things like the Dahon Vybe and Euromini Forte). My only holdup was the color - not super thrilled about the silver. Sure, it's not ugly, but it just doesn't thrill me (though I do suppose that would make it a higher-viz bike in the dark, not that it would be relevant when lights / vests are on anyways). Couldn't find a side-by-side for the Brushed versus Quicksilver, either.

Looking around for info about the Dahon brand bags, however, I came across a few threads on the Mariner here and found another person who had trouble choosing between several brands of bike. They ultimately went with the Origami "Crane 8" instead of all of their other choices. I'm aware of Origami but I've never actually looked into their bikes and during the course of my asking around they did not show up on a list of suggestions, so I gave it a look and now I'm not sure which is the better buy.

According to the sticky, I should provide the following:



* your weight (bikes have weight limits): 190lb
* how tall you are (almost all folding bikes are size medium, ie 22" (55cm) equiv. top tube length) 5'4"
* your budget - ~650USD (as I was already intending to buy the Mariner)
* your riding experience - Used to utility / cycle commute, but I've never used a folder before.
* what you intend to use the bike for (eg touring, commuting, casual park riding, shopping, MTB-ing etc) - Urban exploration / park riding. If I really like it maybe I'll start using it for other things.
* what country you are in, as countries tend to have different choices - USA



We are looking at a roughly $250 price difference (though I can get free shipping from Thor on the Dahon, but not the Crane which is ~$30), which is significant enough to make me wonder ($645 for the cheapest Mariner vs $400 for the Crane). At first glance, the "Metallic gray" color is more appealing than the Dahon silver, because it's darker and thus more edgy and therefore cooler. Here's what I can figure out on my own:

1. Both have 8 speed cassettes (I'm told Cassette good), but the Crane claims 34 vs Mariner's 32 for lowest (slightly lower gearing).
2. Both use thumb shifters (earlier Mariners used grip shift but this change for the 2019 model).
3. Both seem to have the same spoke count.
4. Both have chain guards (important).
5. Both use V-brakes.
6. Both weigh about the same at 27 pounds
7. Both have rear racks and fenders (this is important). Mariner is alu rack, Crane is of unknown metal.
8. Both have a 230 pound rider weight limit (I am ~190).
9. Both fit me (I am ~5'4")
10. Both have magnetic closure
11. Both have adjustable handlebars (this feels important, part of why I passed on the Vybe and Vitesse)
12. Both have alu frames and steel forks (or at least, Dahon claims the Mariner has steel forks while ThorUSA claims they're alu)
13. Both have plastic folding pedals (which will probably get replaced soon, maybe even day 1)
14. Both seem to fold the same way (chain out).
15. Both seem to have locking guards for their folding joint levers.
    === End Similarities ==
16. Crane uses Acera derailleur vs the Mariner's Altus. From what I have read, they're both entry level but the Acera is the better of the two. Score to Crane.
17. Mariner has the option for bolted-on front racks, and the Crane does not. Score Mariner.
18. Crane has quick release hubs, Mariner uses bolts (Crane for sure has lawyer lips, but that's one less tool to carry on a ride I suppose). Score Crane.
19. Crane has double-wall rims - I don't know if Mariner does or not. I'm told this is important. Score Crane?
20. Crane has a 52 tooth chain ring, Mariner has 53. I don't know how relevant that actually is.
21. Mariner has a lot of rust-resistant claims, Crane does not. Not sure that's actually relevant, though.
22. Crane seems to have neater welds (likely more concealed on the Crane due to color). Can't really score this one.
23. Crane appears to have a pre-marked seat post for measuring height (saving me the trouble). Score Crane.
24. Mariner has Schwalbe Citizens (decent tires I'm told) vs the Crane's Kenda Premium. I had always intended to replace the Citizens with Marathon Plus, however - so not very relevant.
25. Crane has a trailer / hard case option (neat, because I had just been wondering about trailers on folders). Score Crane (slightly relevant I guess).

The rest of the details I either don't understand or don't know to look for.

All in all, I am now leaning towards the Crane. People have said good things about the Mariner and I know Dahon is an established brand. I know little about Origami (evidently they're in VA, which isn't too far off). Basically in none of the threads I'd started asking about folders early on did Origami come up, but various Dahons did - nor did I recall seeing Origami on places like FoldingBike20 or BikeFolded. That makes me wonder if maybe the Origami brand is not a great buy in general, or maybe they just haven't made much of a name for themselves either way.

It's about $400 on their site for the Crane (only $40 or so more than the Euromini Forte I had originally looked at some weeks ago but about $250 cheaper than the Mariner). For $500, I can get the Crane in a hardcase which doubles as a wheeled storage box and a small bike trailer (and probably a safer shipping container than cardboard alone). This case seems to have poor wheels, though I don't anticipate using it for an actual trailer much (or for very far - at most a mile down to the store if I feel adventurous). It's main purpose would be keeping the bike safe in the trunk and to ease carrying it into a hotel.

On both bikes from what I can tell the saddle, grips, and pedals are a complaint people have. I had intended to replace them both eventually (starting with pedals probably) so that's a wash. Tires, as well, since I never intended to use the stock Citizens, having to upgrade the Kenda's isn't a problem - though the tradeoff is one gives me spare Citizens (which I suppose I could pass down to my wife's Schwinn Loop), while the other gives me spare Kenda Spacetakers.

The biggest break in feature seems to be that front-mounting option. Dahon lets you buy a frame-attached truss which you can attach things to. Not sure how useful that is for me really, but the front-mounted "truss bag" was kind of novel and interesting - potentially useful for dismounting and taking things with you. For the Crane, I am aware of, but not directly familiar with, options such as the Xtoor rack which can clamp to the stem which could be a partial mitigation if I want front cargo options. Not a clue how well those work, however. Dahon in general seems to have more accessories support, but there are sources for panniers, etc. for folders.

As it's my first folder, I don't have experiences to fall back on, so I'm going entirely by what I'm told, backed up by what I can infer based on what I learned when I rode full sized bikes (which has actually been years past now).

What's the opinion of the more learned and experienced minds here? Is the Crane probably the better bet for a first time folder, or is the Mariner the better buy? Right now it's looking like the Origami Crane, but maybe I have drawn an incorrect conclusion.

Thanks,

M.